If every Saturday I could go to a gym and box with a pro, I'd do it. He wouldn't be getting better, he'd just be keeping in shape for when another pro is ready to box. If I'm smart however I'd put the effort into practicing and learning why he's better and try to improve.
Or I could just complain it's no fair I keep losing to people who are better than me at boxing and ask the gym to get more bad boxers I can spar with - because my goal is not to improve but to pretend I'm already good enough.
Just depends what you consider fun.
Well, it's not like Martial arts training normally involve full contact sparring between pros and newbies, and if it happens the pro won't be going all in, so I'm not sure the analogy works very well for faction play.
I've basically stopped playing because it is too boring stomping pugs all the time, and playing with the unit is the only thing that interests me anymore about MWO. So the pugstomp design is definitely a big problem that is ruining the game, I don't think we can brush that of with git gud.
Well, it's not like Martial arts training normally involve full contact sparring between pros and newbies, and if it happens the pro won't be going all in, so I'm not sure the analogy works very well for faction play.
I've basically stopped playing because it is too boring stomping pugs all the time, and playing with the unit is the only thing that interests me anymore about MWO. So the pugstomp design is definitely a big problem that is ruining the game, I don't think we can brush that of with git gud.
The problem would get bored if all hr has was scrubs to train with -
Because playing with better people is how you get better.
I'm all in favor of a queue split. However the best possible option is the one that rewards people playing against better opponents and lets you wait for good enemies to play against. A matchmaker will struggle hard with 30 min matches and often only 3-5 teams on each side.
the more i think about it, the less i think unit play isnt really bad. just theres some units, like the ones who train for mrbc div a, and whatnot, and those guys need to not be alowed into the kiddie pool. however i do have hope that the bidding down tonnage for a cbill/xp type boost thing suggested in the roundtable takes off and helps limit that. empyreal v pugs with 240 tonnage, wow ouch. empyreal v pugs in 4 mystlynx decks? that seems interesting. and might be fun for the top teams whove been steamrolling. might like to see how that works out.
MischiefSC, on 15 February 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:
The problem would get bored if all hr has was scrubs to train with -
Because playing with better people is how you get better.
I'm all in favor of a queue split. However the best possible option is the one that rewards people playing against better opponents and lets you wait for good enemies to play against. A matchmaker will struggle hard with 30 min matches and often only 3-5 teams on each side.
Yeah sure, I'd be in favor of a queue split too if the population supported it. Ash's stance on this is due to the fact that queue splitting(Solo players 1 queue, Grouped players 1 queue) implementations in the past have caused FW to become a ghost drop fest.
As for taking issue with units that only recruit good players and have a standard to meet just to stay in the unit, people who agree with that sentiment are a breed of ultra special snowflakes.
People putting time into a hobby so that they become better at it should be punished for performance? Really. Someone has zero credibility now.
Oh and before anyone says not to take words literally, please stop using hyperbole. We're having a discussion with multiple individuals who are not your friends. We cannot always guess if you mean exactly what you say.
Emer said (Yeah sure, I'd be in favor of a queue split too if the population supported it)
MWO is going to have to split the CW/FW mm queues if this game wants to survive another year it has bleed new players for 4 years because PGI just don't get what its players want in a MechWarrior/Battletech game.
And PGI cant rely on another 5 million USD from Old Guard players or existing MWO players to boost this games revenue again not going to happen.
You would think PGI could figure it out after 4 years of running MWO on a day to day basis that players want to play good games that there mechs last more than 30 seconds under focused fire not pug stomps in FW or any other game mode .
There should have in reality been 2 MWO games made way back at the first of MWO development day 1. A hardcore mode for groups only Solaris and planetary and a new-player-casual-pug Solaris and planetary but after 4 years PGI still is awash in bad decisions even though thousands of good ideas for MWO have been spoon fed to them.
Personally I don't expect MWO or any other venture PGI has there hands into to be any better than MWO is today and I personally wont finance a game or games that in reality has always been a minimal viable product from day 1 and DEVS that wont listen to anyone in its player base except for there crony FW playing buddies in groups..
Emer said (Yeah sure, I'd be in favor of a queue split too if the population supported it)
MWO is going to have to split the CW/FW mm queues if this game wants to survive another year it has bleed new players for 4 years because PGI just don't get what its players want in a MechWarrior/Battletech game.
And PGI cant rely on another 5 million USD from Old Guard players or existing MWO players to boost this games revenue again not going to happen.
You would think PGI could figure it out after 4 years of running MWO on a day to day basis that players want to play good games that there mechs last more than 30 seconds under focused fire not pug stomps in FW or any other game mode .
There should have in reality been 2 MWO games made way back at the first of MWO development day 1. A hardcore mode for groups only Solaris and planetary and a new-player-casual-pug Solaris and planetary but after 4 years PGI still is awash in bad decisions even though thousands of good ideas for MWO have been spoon fed to them.
Personally I don't expect MWO or any other venture PGI has there hands into to be any better than MWO is today and I personally wont finance a game or games that in reality has always been a minimal viable product from day 1 and DEVS that wont listen to anyone in its player base except for there crony FW playing buddies in groups..
Well the main issue was never about possibility. It's about the request for something that will cause problems for the game as it is due to the numerous other community ideas perverted so much during actual implementation. Why would anyone believe at this moment that a request like this won't be turned to **** by the incessant need to monetize everything, as demonstrated by the current PTS.
Emer said (Yeah sure, I'd be in favor of a queue split too if the population supported it)
MWO is going to have to split the CW/FW mm queues if this game wants to survive another year it has bleed new players for 4 years because PGI just don't get what its players want in a MechWarrior/Battletech game.
And PGI cant rely on another 5 million USD from Old Guard players or existing MWO players to boost this games revenue again not going to happen.
You would think PGI could figure it out after 4 years of running MWO on a day to day basis that players want to play good games that there mechs last more than 30 seconds under focused fire not pug stomps in FW or any other game mode .
There should have in reality been 2 MWO games made way back at the first of MWO development day 1. A hardcore mode for groups only Solaris and planetary and a new-player-casual-pug Solaris and planetary but after 4 years PGI still is awash in bad decisions even though thousands of good ideas for MWO have been spoon fed to them.
Personally I don't expect MWO or any other venture PGI has there hands into to be any better than MWO is today and I personally wont finance a game or games that in reality has always been a minimal viable product from day 1 and DEVS that wont listen to anyone in its player base except for there crony FW playing buddies in groups..
People said this too in 2014.....
You're not supposed to last more than 30 seconds under focused fire, that's why there's focused fire. While you are getting focused, it's up to your team to respond in kind.
Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 18 February 2017 - 03:02 AM.
You're not supposed to last more than 30 seconds under focused fire, that's why there's focused fire. While you are getting focused, it's up to your team to respond in kind. )
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Well Pal tell that to all the new players that have uninstalled MWO for lack OF ACTUAL PLAYING TIME PER BATTLE.?
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Emer said (that a request like this won't be turned to **** by the incessant need to monetize everything, as demonstrated by the current PTS. )
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Boy you hit that one out of the park.
You're not supposed to last more than 30 seconds under focused fire, that's why there's focused fire. While you are getting focused, it's up to your team to respond in kind. )
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Well Pal tell that to all the new players that have uninstalled MWO for lack OF ACTUAL PLAYING TIME PER BATTLE.?
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Emer said (that a request like this won't be turned to **** by the incessant need to monetize everything, as demonstrated by the current PTS. )
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Boy you hit that one out of the park.
If new players quit due to lack of actual playing time in MWO, they must have a terrible time with other fps that take 1-3 shots FROM A SINGLE player to kill them
Take World of Tanks as an example or even Armored Warfare
They have decided that 3 man teams is the max group size for their game (team size 15) as it imbalances the games too much to have large groups, yet PGI who have a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller player base think that 12man groups are fine.
Q. Which developer probably has the correct answer?
If you want to play in small casual groups there's group queue.
FW is the environment where teams fight in a larger arena.
The real problem is people who are upset that only 2/3rds of the game caters exclusively to them. You want the bigger rewards you play in the more challenging environment.
Also, look at how many players have tags. Are you saying most those units are 3 or less players?
Vxh said ( new players quit due to lack of actual playing time in MWO, they must have a terrible time with other fps that take 1-3 shots FROM A SINGLE player to kill them )
There are many reasons New players try MWO and uninstall low survivability in battles is a big one if MWO were so new player friendly the game would not be dying from low new player retention.
Take World of Tanks as an example or even Armored Warfare
They have decided that 3 man teams is the max group size for their game (team size 15) as it imbalances the games too much to have large groups, yet PGI who have a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller player base think that 12man groups are fine.
Q. Which developer probably has the correct answer?
Go figure.
World of Tanks only has a 3 man cap on their quick play. Their version of faction play is restricted to unit's only, you can't solo it which is exactly how this game should have been designed. Problem with faction play was never large groups, it was too many solo/new players entering a environment that puts them at a huge disadvantage.
All we ended up with is solo/new players getting destroyed game after game and units/groups having to play really boring matches. You cannot have a game like Faction Play that does not have a match maker, doesn't restrict groups and make it solo friendly without creating balance issues, groups will almost always win.
Vxh said ( new players quit due to lack of actual playing time in MWO, they must have a terrible time with other fps that take 1-3 shots FROM A SINGLE player to kill them )
There are many reasons New players try MWO and uninstall low survivability in battles is a big one if MWO were so new player friendly the game would not be dying from low new player retention.
I've seen tier 5 play (where new players should be), and low survivability is not the issue. Lack of map and general awareness and inability to shoot accurately (usually a mouse setting problem) are issues.
DarklightCA, on 18 February 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:
World of Tanks only has a 3 man cap on their quick play. Their version of faction play is restricted to unit's only, you can't solo it which is exactly how this game should have been designed. Problem with faction play was never large groups, it was too many solo/new players entering a environment that puts them at a huge disadvantage.
All we ended up with is solo/new players getting destroyed game after game and units/groups having to play really boring matches. You cannot have a game like Faction Play that does not have a match maker, doesn't restrict groups and make it solo friendly without creating balance issues, groups will almost always win.
My apologies you are 100% correct, and i'm in total agreement with you.
LocationHiding in the periphery, from Bounty Hunters
Posted 20 February 2017 - 02:25 AM
Clownwarlord, on 03 February 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:
Sean Lang "Phil" wants a system of 12 man vs 12 man and the game mode is only active during specific parts of the day. This could be done the problem you run into is that MWO itself does not have a big enough active player base as is. You would have to first dump all players into units, and then all the units would have to field multiple 12 mans (nothing short of a 12 man because not allowed). Then after all that they would have to be active at the same time period of lets say three 4 hour periods.
This idea is similar to WoT which I played in for years and it worked for them the issue is how would you setup match generation? For WoT the units would drop tokens on an area and it would be a mini tournament to see who comes out on top to win that area.
The issue with that is you would spread out the buckets again for every planet on a border for that system to be the same. Or you would have to have a hundred times bigger player base.
So what would you suggest to make this idea work since some of you disagree with small groups and solo players only?
WoT and others don't have solo warriors in their version of CW
They have groups of up to 3 people only in solo Q.P something which the bad players here don't want, because they want to feel good about their mediocrity
Group Q.P and the Campaign game are for Clans only, no solo players, and they are a fixed number. I forget if it 12 like here or 15, and only your clan can drop you do not get others clans dropping with you, so if you have only ten players available you drop two short in the case of 12 v12
The token system works for WoT because they don't allow units to mix and people that are unable to field a full team learned long ago, not to bother taking part.
The token System also doesn't stop the same half a dozen teams dominating the game.
P.G.I chose not to have such an elitist system, and the way they went is far more user friendly, by allowing small groups and solo people to take part.
This has some benefits that people refuse to acknowledge, they just cry and blame P.G.I for.
Those groups of four or five people constantly crying Meme's about useless scrub soloist and trial mech users ruining their game play while crying about the organised teams ruining their experience their fun by being to good wouldn't be playing CW at all, had P.G.I not taken the time and effort to provide an endgame they can take part in.
People around here should be saying Thank you P.G.I for allowing us to take part, not endlessly crying about how the balance sucks and it's not fair better players beat me.
I'm writing this as a person who is currently not in a unit of any size.
There is a big sign saying FW is very hard there is no match maker, this is a thing P.G.I put up there basically saying if your not a big group your not fully equipped expect to lose a lot.
People ignore it play anyway and then come here and cry about it.
Maybe P.G.I should go to a token system as well, it would certainly be easier for them, maybe they should just turn around and say if you can't field 12 people tough.
What it won't do is stop the same few units dominating this game, which would be a sign saying if you aren't a comp level team don't bother.
Would that be good for the game.
I don't have issues with balance or getting my backside handed to me by a powerful unit, it's part of the game, and if people can't accept it, they shouldn't be there, period.
My issues with F.W are the invasion maps are dull and boring, Loyalists got the shite end of the stick, when they should be the ones with the benefits.
and for them to make good on this
Around 8.50 is interesting because in the last roundtable Russ claimed that skins and being able to join famous units was something they never mentioned..
WoT and others don't have solo warriors in their version of CW
They have groups of up to 3 people only in solo Q.P something which the bad players here don't want, because they want to feel good about their mediocrity
Group Q.P and the Campaign game are for Clans only, no solo players, and they are a fixed number. I forget if it 12 like here or 15, and only your clan can drop you do not get others clans dropping with you, so if you have only ten players available you drop two short in the case of 12 v12
The token system works for WoT because they don't allow units to mix and people that are unable to field a full team learned long ago, not to bother taking part.
The token System also doesn't stop the same half a dozen teams dominating the game.
P.G.I chose not to have such an elitist system, and the way they went is far more user friendly, by allowing small groups and solo people to take part.
This has some benefits that people refuse to acknowledge, they just cry and blame P.G.I for.
Those groups of four or five people constantly crying Meme's about useless scrub soloist and trial mech users ruining their game play while crying about the organised teams ruining their experience their fun by being to good wouldn't be playing CW at all, had P.G.I not taken the time and effort to provide an endgame they can take part in.
People around here should be saying Thank you P.G.I for allowing us to take part, not endlessly crying about how the balance sucks and it's not fair better players beat me.
I'm writing this as a person who is currently not in a unit of any size.
There is a big sign saying FW is very hard there is no match maker, this is a thing P.G.I put up there basically saying if your not a big group your not fully equipped expect to lose a lot.
People ignore it play anyway and then come here and cry about it.
Maybe P.G.I should go to a token system as well, it would certainly be easier for them, maybe they should just turn around and say if you can't field 12 people tough.
What it won't do is stop the same few units dominating this game, which would be a sign saying if you aren't a comp level team don't bother.
Would that be good for the game.
I don't have issues with balance or getting my backside handed to me by a powerful unit, it's part of the game, and if people can't accept it, they shouldn't be there, period.
My issues with F.W are the invasion maps are dull and boring, Loyalists got the shite end of the stick, when they should be the ones with the benefits.
and for them to make good on this
Around 8.50 is interesting because in the last roundtable Russ claimed that skins and being able to join famous units was something they never mentioned..
Loyalists should be seeing bonus' for taking Faction (House / Clan) based mechs like:
House Kurita:
DRG
PNT
+50% LP +20% Cbill increase for showing your loyalty
or
Clan Smoke Jaguar: (totem mechs)
EBJ
+25% LP +10% Cbill increase for showing your loyalty
...it would be a start
And I know the IS Houses would have the better deals since there are many more variants available for the IS than Clans.
May be to help with it, set it up where having 8/8 Omnipods on certain Clan variants would be considered part of the loyalty system for loyalists.
2
MischiefSC, on 15 February 2017 - 06:13 PM, said:
