78 replies to this topic

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Metus regem, on 04 February 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

I counter with 15 damage for 10t and 15 heat is balanced against 15 damage for 15t and 1 heat at a longer range.

Holy cow no.

Gauss is totally trash compared to PPC. It weight more then twice as much, blows up if you sneeze at it and is ammo dependant (not to mention the cooldown and chargeup time).

Gauss has 0,11 more dps over a single ppc (or er/ c-er ppc).

two ppc outshine every gauss imo.

I garantee you, 15 damage pinpoint (30 assuming every mech mounts two of those) will wreck face. hard.
15 heat is manageable considering c-erppc also is at 14 heat.

So no. as in "hell to the frack no!" to 15 points of damage.

Besides, gauss longrange? lol... PGI made it a midrange weapon. not worth past 800 meter.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 04 February 2017 - 08:53 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Same Ghost Heat penalty as (U)AC/20s? So mounting more than 1 is not beneficial with regards to sniping?

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 February 2017 - 08:54 AM, said:

Same Ghost Heat penalty as (U)AC/20s? So mounting more than 1 is not beneficial with regards to sniping?

I'd recommend you use something else then a class 20 cannon for sniping
Serious tho, if it's capping out at only 1, why a heavy ppc if 2 ppc are flat out better.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 04 February 2017 - 09:23 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 04 February 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

Serious tho, if it's capping out at only 1, why a heavy ppc if 2 ppc are flat out better.

Why an AC/20 when 2x AC/10s are better?

Tonnage, space, heat? Not to mention hard points for those without the choice to take two of something instead of just one.

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 04 February 2017 - 09:36 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hit the Deck, on 04 February 2017 - 04:37 AM, said:

Without thinking about IS internal balance between PPC, ERPPC, Heavy PPC, and Light PPC,...

...my gut feeling tells me that Heavy PPC's projectile speed should be in the vicinity of AC/10's projectile speed (the latter could be buffed if necessary).

It should be a medium ranged weapon.

With that said, this definitely needs more thought because you would have 4 types of PPCs and the possible PPC capacitor (experimental tech, but that doesn't raelly mean anything here).

on the very slim chance that capacitors make it in, I'd be curious how they would implement them.

I don't see them being able to because of the fact they can be toggled on or off, and because you don't have to have them on all PPCs you equip... meaning a depth of programming (comparably) beyond what PGI has demonstrated a willingness to screw with, especially for such a narrow application.

If they were being used, they would have to double the cooldown when engaged.

Truth to tell, the only way I see PGI even remotely adding them is as like Artemis, where it's all or nothing, and probably always "ON", which between the cooldown and extra heat, IDK... yeah some poptarts would still look to maximize it (Potential 55-70 ppfld Hell....90 with 2x Heavy Gauss and 2x Heavy PPC, not really "viable, but you know some metahumper would try it. Thank goodness Heavy Gauss have to be torso mounted)...but that would be a real long cool down.

It's a shame that Energy Draw as an actual ENERGY draw never happened, instead of just morphing into a lazy Ghost Heat 2.0..... the power requirements of Heavy PPCs and Gauss if done in an actual power draw scenario would ensure one could not use both together.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 04 February 2017 - 09:43 AM.

[Metus regem]

Escef, on 04 February 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Heat is not often a big issue for jump snipers. Have you ever seen what a 2xERPPC Summoner can do? (Granted, the Summoner also relies on a large TC to pump velocity up to Gauss Rifle levels.)

Yes I have, and a cERPPC would likely have a higher base velocity than a HPPC. As I said, the HPPC is 10t, that's more than a 50% weight gain over the cERPPC with less range by approximately 150m optimal. The HPPC also takes up 100% more Crit space than the cERPPC, 33% more than the iERPPC, those factors should render it balanced for its damage.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 February 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

on the very slim chance that capacitors make it in, I'd be curious how they would implement them.

I don't see them being able to because of the fact they can be toggled on or off, and because you don't have to have them on all PPCs you equip... meaning a depth of programming (comparably) beyond what PGI has demonstrated a willingness to screw with, especially for such a narrow application.

I'd imagine they would be separate weapons like they were in Mekteks mod of MW4, but in MWO they could potentially have a charge up like Gauss does to sort of simulate the charge up they had to do to fire (though the fact you had to wait an extra turn before firing with a capacitor charge again is not really simulated there).

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 February 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

I'd imagine they would be separate weapons like they were in Mekteks mod of MW4, but in MWO they could potentially have a charge up like Gauss does to sort of simulate the charge up they had to do to fire (though the fact you had to wait an extra turn before firing with a capacitor charge again is not really simulated there).

Which is why I doubt we'll see them, here, plus as "experimental" tech, no real need to do them, anyhow. Plus....do we really need one more thing to encourage the Pop/PeekTart meta with? Extra cooldown is already largely a non issue in that meta, as unless you have an organized brawl team, nobody outside of another comp team has the huevos to actually push in, and chances are... if it were another comp team..they'd be running the same set up.

The Poptart Meta was hands down the most boring and stale time in MWO's history.... I really really really have no desire to see anything that might help resurrect it.....it's already getting uncomfortably close with the Night Gyrs... and Nippletart Summoners... though at least the Gyr takes a fair bit of skill to poptart successfully with, since they float like a goodyear blimp.

Gotta say... Poptarting comes back in full vogue, that will probably be uninstall time, for me.

[Escef]

Metus regem, on 04 February 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

Yes I have, and a cERPPC would likely have a higher base velocity than a HPPC. As I said, the HPPC is 10t, that's more than a 50% weight gain over the cERPPC with less range by approximately 150m optimal. The HPPC also takes up 100% more Crit space than the cERPPC, 33% more than the iERPPC, those factors should render it balanced for its damage.

I've already considered the differences in tonnage and crits, thank you. And the iERPPC? Assuming you mean the EnERPPC... Seriously? Do you really think that's something we need to balance against, seeing as we are VERY unlikely to get it?

[Juodas Varnas]

Escef, on 04 February 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

I've already considered the differences in tonnage and crits, thank you. And the iERPPC? Assuming you mean the EnERPPC... Seriously? Do you really think that's something we need to balance against, seeing as we are VERY unlikely to get it?

iERPPC...
He's referring to IS ERPPC.
You know? 7 tons, 3 slots for 10 damage and 13.5 heat (at least it was that way the last time i checked).

Why would you even think he's referring to EnERPPC? It's CLANTECH

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 04 February 2017 - 09:53 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Escef, on 04 February 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

I've already considered the differences in tonnage and crits, thank you. And the iERPPC? Assuming you mean the EnERPPC... Seriously? Do you really think that's something we need to balance against, seeing as we are VERY unlikely to get it?

Pretty sure by iERPPC they mean the IS ERPPC that we already have.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 February 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

Plus....do we really need one more thing to encourage the Pop/PeekTart meta with? Extra cooldown is already largely a non issue in that meta, as unless you have an organized brawl team, nobody outside of another comp team has the huevos to actually push in, and chances are... if it were another comp team..they'd be running the same set up.

Charge-up messes with shots, including against other poptarts so I don't know that it would be an automatic add, especially if it has the same velocity as non-capacitor PPCs. That said, the IS don't really have any poptarts so them actually having something that may make them competitive outside of laser vomit LPL/ML pushes would be a nice change of pace. Now if Gauss/PPC wasn't so dominant on the Clan side things would be even better.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 04 February 2017 - 09:54 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 February 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

Charge-up messes with shots, including against other poptarts so I don't know that it would be an automatic add, especially if it has the same velocity as non-capacitor PPCs. That said, the IS don't really have any poptarts so them actually having something that may make them competitive outside of laser vomit LPL/ML pushes would be a nice change of pace.

or it just ensures FW becomes a Toaster Pastry Orgy.

Gotta say, I'll pass on that.

[Escef]

Juodas Varnas, on 04 February 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

iERPPC...
He's referring to IS ERPPC.
You know? 7 tons, 3 slots for 10 damage and 13.5 heat (at least it was that way the last time i checked).

Why would you even think he's referring to EnERPPC? It's CLANTECH

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 February 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

Pretty sure by iERPPC they mean the IS ERPPC that we already have.

If that is what is being referenced than it is being done in a manner I have not previously seen on this forum.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 February 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

or it just ensures FW becomes a Toaster Pastry Orgy.

I could care less about FW until they actually make it good (which will never happen, especially given the last round table).

[MechaBattler]

10 tons, 4 crit slots, 15 heat. Minimum range. 15 points of damage. Potentially shorter optimal range.

What about the PPC Capacitor though? How do you think they should handle that?

[Bishop Steiner]

Escef, on 04 February 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

If that is what is being referenced than it is being done in a manner I have not previously seen on this forum.

Yeah, using a lower case "i" in most cases of Battletech Weapons denotes "improved" like on iNARC, C3i, etc.....

I get that the Clans get the ez lazy short handed "c", but for clarity, using either "is" or no added stuff, would be better.

After all, in 99% of cases one should know that an ERPPC, and C-ERPPC (or cERPPC, etc) are different weapons. Not a big deal but I can see the confusion, easily enough... especially since Clan PPCs were referenced in this Thread already, also.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Escef, on 04 February 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

If that is what is being referenced than it is being done in a manner I have not previously seen on this forum.

If you can gather that cERPPC is the Clan Extended Range Particle Projector Cannon it shouldn't be much of a leap that the "i" would stand for Inner Sphere (though I do tend to see it written as isERPPC / IS ERPPC or just ERPPC more often than iERPPC)

Bishop Steiner, on 04 February 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

Yeah, using a lower case "i" in most cases of Battletech Weapons denotes "improved" like on iNARC, C3i, etc.....

Is there even such a thing as an Improved Extended Range Particle Projector Cannon?

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 04 February 2017 - 10:09 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MechaBattler, on 04 February 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

10 tons, 4 crit slots, 15 heat. Minimum range. 15 points of damage. Potentially shorter optimal range.

What about the PPC Capacitor though? How do you think they should handle that?

by not adding it. Since it would take a lot of effort for a narrow application.

But the general thing if it was added, would either be a double the cooldown (and have it always "on"), or code a method where one has a significant charge up, much longer than the Gauss Rifles, to use it.

If we needed an added balancer, perhaps one should not be able to vent heat while charging?

Also it depends on the way they translate it.

It would certainly be abused the hell out of... as the most obvious use would be to mount them on Light PPCs, which will almost certainly have a shorter cooldown, following usual PGI logic (which is unfortunate as they really should not)

And allow people 10 ppfld PPCs for 4 tons. I see people slapping 4 or more of those on their favorite toaster pastry, Charge or not (I don't see charge mechanic slowing tryhard use of Gauss on Night Gyrs)

[Escef]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 February 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

If you can gather that cERPPC is the Clan Extended Range Particle Projector Cannon it shouldn't be much of a leap that the "i" would stand for Inner Sphere (though I do tend to see it written as isERPPC / IS ERPPC or just ERPPC more often than iERPPC)

If you say so. Given that we're talking about a lot of weapons that AREN'T in the game right now, and that when techbase differences are an issue it is usually referred to as the IS-ERPPC? Yeah...