78 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 February 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

Is there even such a thing and an Improved Extended Range Particle Projector Cannon?

There is not, but we see sloppy and incorrect terms used all the time. As in the case of "iERPPC" in the first place.

[kapusta11]

Basically, it comes down to whether you think it's ok to be able to fire 3 IS PPCs or not because 2 HPPCs are only 1 ton lighter with other stats being identical.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 February 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

I could care less about FW until they actually make it good (which will never happen, especially given the last round table).

unfortunately, I can't base balance concerns on whether you, or Deathlike, or Donald Trump like a particular mode. It's there, people DO play it (actually seems to be thriving, atm with the non invasion map FW, anyhow) and therefore has to be taken into consideration.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Escef, on 04 February 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

If you say so. Given that we're talking about a lot of weapons that AREN'T in the game right now, and that when techbase differences are an issue it is usually referred to as the IS-ERPPC? Yeah...

Given that it came immediately after referencing the size of the "cERPPC" ingame? Yeah...

Bishop Steiner, on 04 February 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

There is not, but we see sloppy and incorrect terms used all the time. As in the case of "iERPPC" in the first place.

Still, quite the leap from "i" to "Enhanced", no?

[Escef]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 February 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Given that it came immediately after referencing the size of the "cERPPC" ingame? Yeah...

Once again, a discussion rife with talk of weapon systems that aren't in the game.

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 February 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Still, quite the leap from "i" to "Enhanced", no?

In this community? No, it isn't.

[Jay Leon Hart]

kapusta11, on 04 February 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

Basically, it comes down to whether you think it's ok to be able to fire 3 IS PPCs or not because 2 HPPCs are only 1 ton lighter with other stats being identical.

Is that really a good argument, though?

I mean, 2x Gauss are lighter, cooler and smaller than 3x AC/10s, even before ammo.

[Bishop Steiner]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 February 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Given that it came immediately after referencing the size of the "cERPPC" ingame? Yeah...



Still, quite the leap from "i" to "Enhanced", no?

no really, since a lot of times people reference things without taking the time to look them up, and don't always remember the correct names.

But whatever. You've decided to gnaw on this bone til Armageddon for whatever reason, so we know that you will have to have the "last word" regardless, so enjoy. You win the Internet, and Metus still referred to IS ERPPCs incorrectly, and Escef still misunderstood the reference and honestly who gives a crap?

[FLG 01]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 February 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Still, quite the leap from "i" to "Enhanced", no?

Keep in mind there is the "Improved PPC" which is different from the "Enhanced PPC" (called "Enhanced ERPPC" in earlier books to increase the confusion).

From the latest and best source, the IO:

Edited by FLG 01, 04 February 2017 - 10:25 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 February 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

by not adding it. Since it would take a lot of effort for a narrow application.

But the general thing if it was added, would either be a double the cooldown (and have it always "on"), or code a method where one has a significant charge up, much longer than the Gauss Rifles, to use it.

If we needed an added balancer, perhaps one should not be able to vent heat while charging?

Also it depends on the way they translate it.

It would certainly be abused the hell out of... as the most obvious use would be to mount them on Light PPCs, which will almost certainly have a shorter cooldown, following usual PGI logic (which is unfortunate as they really should not)

And allow people 10 ppfld PPCs for 4 tons. I see people slapping 4 or more of those on their favorite toaster pastry, Charge or not (I don't see charge mechanic slowing tryhard use of Gauss on Night Gyrs)

Could just give it splash. +5 heat, +1 ton, +1 crit for splash wouldn't be as worth it. And if that's not enough, I think the charge mechanic makes sense. It'll add to the cooldown and make shots a little harder for people.

[Jay Leon Hart]

FLG 01, on 04 February 2017 - 10:24 AM, said:

Keep in mind there is the "Improved PPC" which is different from the "Enhanced PPC" (called "Enhanced ERPPC" in earlier books to increase the confusion).

From the latest and best source, the IO:

Spoiler

Thanks, that would have at least made sense to get confused with (grammar, I can't even)

Bishop Steiner, on 04 February 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

no really, since a lot of times people reference things without taking the time to look them up, and don't always remember the correct names.

But whatever. You've decided to gnaw on this bone til Armageddon for whatever reason, so we know that you will have to have the "last word" regardless, so enjoy. You win the Internet, and Metus still referred to IS ERPPCs incorrectly, and Escef still misunderstood the reference and honestly who gives a crap?

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Mistakes were made, why get all antsy about it?

Can we move along now, please? I want my Heavy PPCs

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 04 February 2017 - 11:08 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Escef, on 04 February 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Heat is not often a big issue for jump snipers. Have you ever seen what a 2xERPPC Summoner can do? (Granted, the Summoner also relies on a large TC to pump velocity up to Gauss Rifle levels.)

The Summoner, who relied on Quirks and 20+DHS


Not many Spheroid mechs can mount 20 DHS in the first place

[Gilgamecc]

TheArisen, on 04 February 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

Haha hopefully someday Quads make it.

Yeah I mean, when compared to the clan erppc even if the hvy does pinpoint DMG I'm not fully convinced that'd be enough. Maybe it should have less heat or something.

That would actually make a lot of sense, make the tradeoff of 40+% heavier weapon system with such similar damage but lower range be a lower heat output.

That works logically and in game terms too I think.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 February 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

unfortunately, I can't base balance concerns on whether you, or Deathlike, or Donald Trump like a particular mode. It's there, people DO play it (actually seems to be thriving, atm with the non invasion map FW, anyhow) and therefore has to be taken into consideration.

The point is it that it is important to keep in mind whether it is the game mode, map, or just improper game balance that encourages that.

[FupDup]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 February 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

I could care less about FW until they actually make it good (which will never happen, especially given the last round table).

You triggered me!



Saying that you "could care less" means that you do actually care at least a little bit, because your "care level" is not at the lowest possible level of zero.

What you mean to say is that you couldn't care less. Couldn't care less means that your care level cannot go any lower than it is presently, thus you would be at zero caring.

[Juodas Varnas]

FupDup, on 04 February 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

You triggered me!



Saying that you "could care less" means that you do actually care at least a little bit, because your "care level" is not at the lowest possible level of zero.

What you mean to say is that you couldn't care less. Couldn't care less means that your care level cannot go any lower than it is presently, thus you would be at zero caring.

[TheArisen]

So you can fit two hvy ppc on a 55t mech but you'll need Ferro and to strip the arms. Even after that you're quite toasty with a weapon that has a minimum range.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 04 February 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

Saying that you "could care less" means that you do actually care at least a little bit, because your "care level" is not at the lowest possible level of zero.

What you mean to say is that you couldn't care less. Couldn't care less means that your care level cannot go any lower than it is presently, thus you would be at zero caring.

Oh I'm aware of the backwardness, it just sounds better with "short hand."

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 February 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

The point is it that it is important to keep in mind whether it is the game mode, map, or just improper game balance that encourages that.

the imbalance is there, regardless, FW just brings it out to the fore, more, as it forces segregation. Lets be honest, in QP. whether the IS has a heavy Poptarter or not is rather irrelevant, as people jsut mix and match Clan and IS accts anyhow. The lack of IS Poptart is literally only relevant in FW.

[Josh Seles]

I'm all for introducing more weapons. I'd like to see an IS PPC with the same damage as the C-ER PPC.
However, I'd rather see the Heavy PPC (and C-ER PPC) deal 12.5 pinpoint damage, instead of having 10 pinpoint and 2.5 splash.
As for velocity and heat, both should share heat values. Velocity should be 1200 for Heavy PPC and 1650 for C-ER PPC. I find 1300 is far too slow for such a long ranged weapon. Heavy PPC range should be same (or slightly less) as the IS standard PPC.

Just my 2 CBills.

[TheArisen]

Josh Seles, on 04 February 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

I'm all for introducing more weapons. I'd like to see an IS PPC with the same damage as the C-ER PPC.
However, I'd rather see the Heavy PPC (and C-ER PPC) deal 12.5 pinpoint damage, instead of having 10 pinpoint and 2.5 splash.
As for velocity and heat, both should share heat values. Velocity should be 1200 for Heavy PPC and 1650 for C-ER PPC. I find 1300 is far too slow for such a long ranged weapon. Heavy PPC range should be same (or slightly less) as the IS standard PPC.

Just my 2 CBills.

Hmm but the question arises as to why should a weapon that weighs substantially more, takes more crit slots and is hotter, should be inferior to it's clan counterpart.