78 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

Heavy PPC ideas:

Full 15 point damage no splash
Minimum Range
Slightly less than PPC range (not much)
Have it create an actual visual HUD disruption for those it hits. (I would love seeing this and knowing I got hit by that terrifying weapon)
Slower projectile speed than PPC

[Brain Cancer]

Juodas Varnas, on 04 February 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

I really do think that the guys behind Battletech made a huge mistake by making clantech as overpowered as it was.

Originally, they were just planning on making Clans have "Star League" tech.

And then someone at FASA suffered a massive yet non-fatal stroke and we got Clantech instead.

Edit: Anyway, treat it as what it is- an inferior Clan ERPPC. Give it 12/1.5/1.5 splash to account for it's extra weight and min-range issues and don't give it a heat reduction like the ISERPPC gets.

One long cooldown cycle later and you've got a decent baseline to tweak.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 05 February 2017 - 11:08 AM.

[Oberost]

Brain Cancer, on 05 February 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

Originally, they were just planning on making Clans have "Star League" tech.

And then someone at FASA suffered a massive yet non-fatal stroke and we got Clantech instead.

Edit: Anyway, treat it as what it is- an inferior Clan ERPPC. Give it 12/1.5/1.5 splash to account for it's extra weight and min-range issues and don't give it a heat reduction like the ISERPPC gets.

One long cooldown cycle later and you've got a decent baseline to tweak.

Who is going to waste 10 tons in such crap weapon system? I mean, if all the IS new tech is going to be treated as sidegrade improvements over current IS tech, the power gap between IS and Clans is going to keep IS and Clan unbalanced...

Can we ask for some better tech? Please?

[TheArisen]

Brain Cancer, on 05 February 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

Originally, they were just planning on making Clans have "Star League" tech.

And then someone at FASA suffered a massive yet non-fatal stroke and we got Clantech instead.

Edit: Anyway, treat it as what it is- an inferior Clan ERPPC. Give it 12/1.5/1.5 splash to account for it's extra weight and min-range issues and don't give it a heat reduction like the ISERPPC gets.

One long cooldown cycle later and you've got a decent baseline to tweak.

What about game balance? The Cerppc already is lighter, less slots, longer range, no minimum range and cooler. Do you think your idea would really make the hvy ppc worth taking?

[Y E O N N E]

Hit the Deck, on 04 February 2017 - 04:37 AM, said:

Without thinking about IS internal balance between PPC, ERPPC, Heavy PPC, and Light PPC,...

...my gut feeling tells me that Heavy PPC's projectile speed should be in the vicinity of AC/10's projectile speed (the latter could be buffed if necessary).

Absolutely not. The AC/10 is already never considered seriously because of a velocity that makes it clumsy to wield relative to other options at its rated range. The same would happen to the HPPC which, given its heat output, is already going to be pretty easy to push on.

Quote

It should be a medium ranged weapon.

With that said, this definitely needs more thought because you would have 4 types of PPCs and the possible PPC capacitor (experimental tech, but that doesn't raelly mean anything here).

No, it should be the same bracket of weapon as the standard PPC, because that's what it is built for. Unless you want to nerf Clans such that they can't fire more than one PPC at a time, the IS need the HPPC to be useful at least out to the Gauss optimal to start competing on that front.

The Snub Nose PPC is the one that should be mid-range, since it's the one that caps out at 450 meters and has no minimum range drawback.

Light PPCs are same range bracket as standard PPCs, but they ought to fire faster than the rest and with a worse damage/heat ratio so there are reasons to take standard PPCs.

PPC Capacitors add the charging mechanic into the fray for all PPCs, which I think is awesome in the same way manual transmissions are awesome. Pragmatically, 1x HPPC + 1x PPC + 2x Caps + 1x Gauss allows the IS to match the Clan PPFLD output exactly, though still without the reach or splash and still with a minimum range drawback. It is two tons lighter, though, so that's neat.

[MechaBattler]

I had a realization in another thread. What if they allow small cockpits? Then I can cram a light PPC or Snub PPC in my vindicator's head, right!?

[Y E O N N E]

Finally, the head hard-point would be useful on IS 'Mechs!

[Jay Leon Hart]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 February 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

Finally, the head hard-point would be useful on IS 'Mechs!

We can't have that! Nerf Small Cockpits!!!

[Hit the Deck]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 February 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

Absolutely not. The AC/10 is already never considered seriously because of a velocity that makes it clumsy to wield relative to other options at its rated range. The same would happen to the HPPC which, given its heat output, is already going to be pretty easy to push on.

....

No, it should be the same bracket of weapon as the standard PPC, because that's what it is built for. Unless you want to nerf Clans such that they can't fire more than one PPC at a time, the IS need the HPPC to be useful at least out to the Gauss optimal to start competing on that front.

The Snub Nose PPC is the one that should be mid-range, since it's the one that caps out at 450 meters and has no minimum range drawback.

Light PPCs are same range bracket as standard PPCs, but they ought to fire faster than the rest and with a worse damage/heat ratio so there are reasons to take standard PPCs.

PPC Capacitors add the charging mechanic into the fray for all PPCs, which I think is awesome in the same way manual transmissions are awesome. Pragmatically, 1x HPPC + 1x PPC + 2x Caps + 1x Gauss allows the IS to match the Clan PPFLD output exactly, though still without the reach or splash and still with a minimum range drawback. It is two tons lighter, though, so that's neat.

I guess you didn't read what I wrote in the brackets "(.....)" at the end of my comment.

I stated that especially so that HPPC wouldn't be used in conjuction with Gauss because I feel that it should be a medium ranged weapon thus it should complement other weapons like the AC/10. Granted, I didn't think about SPPC because I forgot it exists. The isERPPC and LPPC are the ones which could complement Gauss.

What I wrote wasn't meant to address the Clan vs IS balance (especially on the PPFLD front), just between the different IS PPC types in general. Actually, it wasn't a post about balance at all, just what I feel how the different PPCs should behave.

[Y E O N N E]

Hit the Deck, on 05 February 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

I guess you didn't read what I wrote in the brackets "(.....)" at the end of my comment.

I stated that especially so that HPPC wouldn't be used in conjuction with Gauss because I feel that it should be a medium ranged weapon thus it should complement other weapons like the AC/10. Granted, I didn't think about SPPC because I forgot it exists. The isERPPC and LPPC are the ones which could complement Gauss.

What I wrote wasn't meant to address the Clan vs IS balance (especially on the PPFLD front), just between the different IS PPC types in general. Actually, it wasn't a post about balance at all, just what I feel how the different PPCs should behave.

I did read what was in the parentheses, but it read like you wanted to buff the AC/10 and leave the HPPC where the AC/10 currently is...which would be silly. Sorry for the confusion.

The HPPC is going to be the one to complement Gauss because the HPPC is 15 damage at >500 meters...it's a fantastic pairing. We don't need to differentiate it from the other PPCs any more than it is because the damage and weight do that all by themselves. And I think we would be remiss to not consider the Clan-IS balance, because the potential ability for the HPPC to address that discrepancy is a major driver for why its presence in MWO is desired.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 05 February 2017 - 05:24 PM.

[Moldur]

After all this time, I check in on the forums and read "Heavy PPC" think huh maybe PGI finally did something.

Ha, nope. Still just a suggestion thread. The lack of progress in this game is stunning, only overshadowed by the misheld faith that gets put into it.

[Escef]

Moldur, on 05 February 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

After all this time, I check in on the forums and read "Heavy PPC" think huh maybe PGI finally did something.

Ha, nope. Still just a suggestion thread. The lack of progress in this game is stunning, only overshadowed by the misheld faith that gets put into it.

They're jumping timeline this summer.

[jjm1]

It doesn't sound OP to me.

If you upgrade to a hotter, slower, heavier PPC for more damage your going to pay for it with less engine, heat sinks and/or backup weapons.

And the min range is not to be underestimated as a huge limit to PPC reliability. Anything faster than you that gets close can take its time picking you to pieces.

[TheArisen]

Moldur, on 05 February 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

After all this time, I check in on the forums and read "Heavy PPC" think huh maybe PGI finally did something.

Ha, nope. Still just a suggestion thread. The lack of progress in this game is stunning, only overshadowed by the misheld faith that gets put into it.

I think you should go read the roadmap... New tech is coming this summer.

[MechaBattler]

Moldur, on 05 February 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

After all this time, I check in on the forums and read "Heavy PPC" think huh maybe PGI finally did something. Ha, nope. Still just a suggestion thread. The lack of progress in this game is stunning, only overshadowed by the misheld faith that gets put into it.

March is supposed when we're going to start to see new tech. We can confirm that it will be 3068 and heavy machine guns. Other than that, it's pretty up in the air as to what's going to be put into the game. I'm hopeful, not because it'll help the game, but because it's the only thing "content" wise that isn't going to break the bank for them. Especially if they focus on variations of existing weapons. All they have to do is tweak some stats. Fits with their level of productivity, even if it'll mean months of balance tweaks.

[Josh Seles]

TheArisen, on 04 February 2017 - 09:58 PM, said:

Hmm but the question arises as to why should a weapon that weighs substantially more, takes more crit slots and is hotter, should be inferior to it's clan counterpart.

Inferior in terms of weight and slots, yes, but not damage. I propose changing the frontloaded damage for both the Heavy PPC and the C-ER PPC to 12.5, or even 13, and eliminating splash damage. Thus, the Heavy PPC wouldn't be completely and utterly inferior to the C-ER PPC. This was to compensate for PGI's seeming squeamishness about weapon balance and their unwillingness to truly buff anything. I guess 15 frontloaded damage on a PPC is too OP, I actually do think it's a bit much. 12.5 or 13 seems like a good compromise. Leave 15 frontloaded damage for the Gauss Rifle.

Edited by Josh Seles, 07 February 2017 - 02:15 PM.

[TheArisen]

Josh Seles, on 07 February 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Inferior in terms of weight and slots, yes, but not damage. I propose changing the frontloaded damage for both the Heavy PPC and the C-ER PPC to 12.5, or even 13, and eliminating splash damage. Thus, the Heavy PPC wouldn't be completely and utterly inferior to the C-ER PPC. This was to compensate for PGI's seeming squeamishness about weapon balance and their unwillingness to truly buff anything. I guess 15 frontloaded damage on a PPC is too OP, I actually do think it's a bit much. 12.5 or 13 seems like a good compromise. Leave 15 frontloaded damage for the Gauss Rifle.

Well I I don't think the hvy ppc should do the exact same amount of DMG in the same way. The Cerppc can do 10dmg plus 5 splash and the hvy can do 12 DMG plus 3 splash or something but let's not forget the hvy ppc has numerous disadvantages when compared to the Cerppc. Since the hvy ppc is hotter that also requires more dhs to cool and IS dhs take more slots as well.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Josh Seles, on 07 February 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Inferior in terms of weight and slots, yes, but not damage. I propose changing the frontloaded damage for both the Heavy PPC and the C-ER PPC to 12.5, or even 13, and eliminating splash damage. Thus, the Heavy PPC wouldn't be completely and utterly inferior to the C-ER PPC.

How does making them have the same PPFLD NOT make the Heavy PPC completely and utterly inferior to the cERPPC? Sorry, but between the fact it is more than 50% heavier and also doesn't have near as long of range on top of having minimum range (for the love of god PGI, can we remove minimum range as a thing on PPCs yet?), I'm pretty sure it will be fine to have 15 PPFLD and that's it.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 07 February 2017 - 03:39 PM.