94 replies to this topic

[I_AM_ZUUL]

MacClearly, on 06 February 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

However you want to put it you have gone off topic and somehow think spamming jargon makes you sound knowledgable. Too bad this is what you come up with when you are incapable of presenting an argument about what is being discussed.

Your total ignorance about what you are pejoratively calling "jargon" means does not in fact make it invalid even though you do understand it... it is actually very specific to the topic on hand, too bad it is information that you refuse to be able to process.

MacClearly, on 06 February 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

Capping is holding a position. Could be standing around but it also holds significant strategy in getting there and winning the game.

To target an enemy you have to have found him.

You're right, any ecm rewards should be removed.

case in point of your defense of the skewed reward system that has warped the game from what it could be with that change alone, just like I told that guy. sad... real sad

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 06 February 2017 - 03:21 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

MacClearly, on 06 February 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

Capping is holding a position. Could be standing around but it also holds significant strategy in getting there and winning the game.

But attempting to cap can easily lose you the game when done at the wrong time. An Assault pilot running off on his own (or with the lights) to cap a side point right at the beginning is almost certainly hurting his team. A fresh medium or heavy running off to cap the enemy base on Assault when his team has already engaged the enemy is amost certainly hurting his team. Why should they be rewarded for doing the wrong thing?

MacClearly, on 06 February 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

To target an enemy you have to have found him.

Not true. Someone else could have found him. Or he could have found you. Why should you be rewarded for someone else's discovery? Why should you he rewarded for being found yourself?

MacClearly, on 06 February 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

You're right, any ecm rewards should be removed.

But why? Why shouldn't an ECM Raven running to a teammate under LRM attack be rewarded for being a good teammate? Why shouldn't a triple AMS Kit Fox be rewarded for doing the same?

Calling it a "standing around" reward is reductionist nonsense. You could do the same to any action the game rewards you for.

[MacClearly]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 06 February 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

Your total ignorance about what you are pejoratively calling "jargon" means does not in fact make it invalid even though you do understand it... it is actually very specific to the topic on hand, too bad it is information that you refuse to be able to process.



case in point of your defense of the skewed reward system that has warped the game from what it could be with that change alone, just like I told that guy. sad... real sad

No Zuul you not understanding how to make a point and then talking about nonsense and telling people that they don't understand it (because again what you are saying is off topic and irrelevant) doesn't make you right.

If you knew how to tie in your Game Theory comment or marco economy into the conversation instead of simply bringing them up out of context, maybe you'd get the debate you want. You would lose, but at least you would be engaged.

So you fail again. Try either staying on topic or trying to tie in the jargon you're spamming into the debate.

[MacClearly]

@Kaeb Odellas

But attempting to cap can easily lose you the game when done at the wrong time. An Assault pilot running off on his own (or with the lights) to cap a side point right at the beginning is almost certainly hurting his team. A fresh medium or heavy running off to cap the enemy base on Assault when his team has already engaged the enemy is amost certainly hurting his team. Why should they be rewarded for doing the wrong thing?

You won't get rewarded if you go off and die. If you don't do it intelligently you will lose the game. I personally don't want to see the capping rewards removed but if you do, then we disagree.

Not true. Someone else could have found him. Or he could have found you. Why should you be rewarded for someone else's discovery? Why should you he rewarded for being found yourself?

I don't believe every time you press R you are rewarded so yes it is true. You get the scouting bonus for discovery.


But why? Why shouldn't an ECM Raven running to a teammate under LRM attack be rewarded for being a good teammate? Why shouldn't a triple AMS Kit Fox be rewarded for doing the same?

I have already said why I don't think you should be rewarded for strapping a piece of equipment to your mech.

Calling it a "standing around" reward is reductionist nonsense. You could do the same to any action the game rewards you for.

If that is how you feel we should stop now. My position is rewards for action, specifically in regards to combat. Protective actions are rewarded by being able to stay alive and in combat. My mind will not change on this belief if all you are able to do is ask me to repeat myself.

[MacClearly]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 06 February 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

[Redacted]

What you are doing now is a personal attack and being insulting. It is classic you. You can try and deflect with nonsense and jargon but you have not made a valid point, and you have not stayed on subject.

If you want to bring game theory or macro economics you have to tie them into the converstion. You haven't done that nor are you even likely capable of doing so.

Edit: Stop trying to assume what I want as you are really terrible at it and way off base.

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 18 February 2017 - 01:31 PM.
quote

[NighthawK1337]

Guys, calm yo beards. Thread might get locked.

[MacClearly]

NighthawK1337, on 06 February 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

Guys, calm yo beards. Thread might get locked.

Lol beards...the neck variety I suppose you are inferring too. Anyways, I am pretty sure I am being respectful but I am going to call the guy out for being insulting instead of making a valid point or argument.

[NighthawK1337]

MacClearly, on 06 February 2017 - 09:04 PM, said:

Lol beards...the neck variety I suppose you are inferring too. Anyways, I am pretty sure I am being respectful but I am going to call the guy out for being insulting instead of making a valid point or argument.

When in the internet, I always assume people are 30-year old wizards unless they have provided proof otherwise.
Hence the beards.

[RestosIII]

NighthawK1337, on 06 February 2017 - 10:26 PM, said:

When in the internet, I always assume people are 30-year old wizards unless they have provided proof otherwise.
Hence the beards.

I cannot confirm or deny this assumption.

[Kaeb Odellas]

MacClearly, on 06 February 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

@Kaeb Odellas

You won't get rewarded if you go off and die. If you don't do it intelligently you will lose the game. I personally don't want to see the capping rewards removed but if you do, then we disagree.

I'm not sure about Assault, but you still get rewarded for capping a point in Conquest regardless of outcome.

MacClearly, on 06 February 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

I don't believe every time you press R you are rewarded so yes it is true. You get the scouting bonus for discovery.

I was referring to spot assists for LRMs, not scouting. Even then, you get rewarded for being the first to target an enemy, not actually relaying any information. Seeing the entire enemy team first, rapidly spamming R, and running off will get you all the scouting bonuses, but you're not relaying any information beyond number, since you're not taking the time to actually gather weapon loadouts info or spotting for your LRMs. Meanwhile, spotting enemies from beyond sensor range and relaying info through chat or voip isn't rewarded at all.

MacClearly, on 06 February 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

I have already said why I don't think you should be rewarded for strapping a piece of equipment to your mech.

You're not rewarded for simply strapping the equipment on your mech. You don't get ECM rewards if you're not covering your team. You don't get ECM countering rewards if you don't go and counter an enemy's ECM with your BAP or ECM on counter mode. You wouldn't get AMS rewards if your AMS doesn't shoot down missiles.

It's not a matter of simply standing around. It's a matter of standing in the right place, next to your team, so they don't get buried by enemy missiles. You're willing to give capping a pass, but it's the exact same action of standing in the right place at the right time. The only difference is that instead of standing in a pre-determined box, you're standing next to your teammates when they're under fire.

And what about UAV kills? Shooting down UAVs is easy. They don't shoot back. But a UAV can be a devastating presence on the battlefield, relaying the size, number, position, and orientation of mechs, and spot for friendly LRMs . Should UAV kills get no rewards either, since they're purely defensive actions?

Protective actions should be rewarded because they promote teamplay. It's as simple as that.

MacClearly, on 06 February 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

If that is how you feel we should stop now. My position is rewards for action, specifically in regards to combat. Protective actions are rewarded by being able to stay alive and in combat. My mind will not change on this belief if all you are able to do is ask me to repeat myself.

By your logic, PGI shouldn't monetarily reward killing the enemy either, since killing actions are also rewarded by preventing the enemy from killing you or your teammates, thus allowing you to stay alive and in combat.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 06 February 2017 - 11:06 PM.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

GrimRiver, on 06 February 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

All because I said I wanted to do away with damage oriented c-bill earning and replace it with team actions instead.

FPS game this is, yes.
FPS this is ONLY, no.

There is literally no reason to support the team with AMS when it takes up room for more weapons in a game where 80-90% c-bills are earned by damage and kills other than self satisfaction of helping the team.

Damage earned c-bills don't have to be cut out entirely, just make team actions earn more.

Bang on the money, and I love your idea !
This really becomes a lopsided game when a team acts as a team. When 12 players decide to all do what they want, it's anyones game really.
It also actually makes sense game wise, 12 people dropping onto a planet to win the objective as a team rather than just do a personal best score.

---

That said I think most of us all agree AMS should definitely be rewarded but this will just be another mighty player agreement which PGI will happen to ignore.

[MacClearly]

@Kaeb Odellus

I'm not sure about Assault, but you still get rewarded for capping a point in Conquest regardless of outcome.

From my understanding you get a rewarded by the amount of time you hold a position. In both of these modes it is the objective and especially in conquest these points are being fought over. So you are in peril in a sense because the enemy knows exactly where you are. Holding is of strategic importance and therefor rewarded as such. So I disagree that you are just standing there or that there isn't importance or skill in doing it right. If you don't feel this way that's cool, we can just agree to disagree.


I was referring to spot assists for LRMs, not scouting. Even then, you get rewarded for being the first to target an enemy, not actually relaying any information. Seeing the entire enemy team first, rapidly spamming R, and running off will get you all the scouting bonuses, but you're not relaying any information beyond number, since you're not taking the time to actually gather weapon loadouts info or spotting for your LRMs. Meanwhile, spotting enemies from beyond sensor range and relaying info through chat or voip isn't rewarded at all.

Not sure here...I don't know anyone that spams the R key for the pittance that is given out. Not come across that behaviour at all. However if you discover where the main body is and target them all that would be a way to let the team know without using comms that they all were there. Again though I don't see that behaviour. However, targeting is in the game and it is part of the offense. Where the enemy is or getting locks for people to shoot their lrms is contributing to combat. Again you have not said anything here that convinces me (not that I am important or anything) that rewards shouldn't be given out for information. As far as voip it would be hard for PGI to reward pressing talk but certainly the team with better communication tends to be more successful on the scoreboard anyways...except for this one cantankerous fella who is a notoriously bad drop caller and likes to belittle people but ahem, just in case he is still skulking about I will avoid the name and shame (he's a notorious reporter of incidents too).


You're not rewarded for simply strapping the equipment on your mech. You don't get ECM rewards if you're not covering your team. You don't get ECM countering rewards if you don't go and counter an enemy's ECM with your BAP or ECM on counter mode. You wouldn't get AMS rewards if your AMS doesn't shoot down missiles.

Like I said I don't believe you should get rewards for walking with your team and having ecm strapped to your mech. Seek and destroy efforts being rewarded I am all for. I am guessing that providing ecm coverage doesn't pay well anyways considering most seem to use if for scouting or sniping. Again though getting paid for ams automatically shooting down missiles is not something I am for (surprise!), as keeping up with your team only requires one hand and possibly keeping at least one eye open. Sorry unless you show me how skillful that could be I am not buying into the concept. Add to this the only place it really is effective is lurmaggeddon on polar (actually was in a match where the enemies ams was completely taking out my teams lurms, it was hilarious to hear them screaming for me to prioritise the Kitfox over the Atlas....).

It's not a matter of simply standing around.It's a matter of standing in the right place, next to your team, so they don't get buried by enemy missiles. You're willing to give capping a pass, but it's the exact same action of standing in the right place at the right time. The only difference is that instead of standing in a pre-determined box, you're standing next to your teammates when they're under fire.

Following your team is not skillful. It doesn't require much. Capping can be that way, but it can also be very risky. That is where the two split from each other for me.

And what about UAV kills? Shooting down UAVs is easy. They don't shoot back. But a UAV can be a devastating presence on the battlefield, relaying the size, number, position, and orientation of mechs, and spot for friendly LRMs . Should UAV kills get no rewards either, since they're purely defensive actions?

I would have no problem removing rewards for shooting down uav's because not dying is reward enough to me. I don't shoot them down for cbills.

Protective actions should be rewarded because they promote teamplay. It's as simple as that.

Some protective actions could promote teamplay. Paying out for simply adding ams and ammo in the mech lab and automatically shooting at missiles launched near you, is rewarded, by helping you live. You don't get a bonus for up armouring your mech or front loading or any other tricks you utilise effectiveness or survivability. Having this pay cbills again could be encouraging inactive play or open up an easy exploit to make space bucks. Still nothing you have said addresses that potential for exploitation or any real and tangible benefit.

By your logic, PGI shouldn't monetarily reward killing the enemy either, since killing actions are also rewarded by preventing the enemy from killing you or your teammates, thus allowing you to stay alive and in combat.

What? How did you extrapolate that from what I said? My statement was offense should be rewarded as it is skill based. Defensive inaction such as equipment choices shouldn't be rewarded by space bucks. My logic is hinged upon the action or skill vs. non-skill or inaction aspect of the game. I can sort of see the point you were trying to make but again I think it was reaching and perhaps insincere. Don't think either one of us at this point is going to convince or win the other over. This is starting to feel a bit repetitive.

[Galenit]

MacClearly, on 05 February 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

I think part of the problem here is that although you are helping your team a by strapping that gear to your mech in some ways, maybe even a big way in certain situations, you are handicapping your own firepower. Add to this standing or running along with assaults and heavies is not exactly skill intensive.

Would be kinda hard to have a reward for 'excellent standing around'. I know that sounds horrible but if they did it would be something that instead of adding use such as you are doing, might open it up for farming and exploitation. So it makes sense to have it in without making it a print money mode.

Your handicapping your firepower to make your team life longer.
Sacrifice some damage/cbills to gain better chance of winning.

"Standing around" with the tiny ecm bubble or the little more ams bubble?
Farming and exploiting?`Did you ever noticed the ecm-rewards?

They should give all actions the same rewards.
Capping, doing damage, ecm, counter-ecm, lance-formation, killing, spotting, ...
but the most of the money should come from wins, not simple point&click.
This would lead to more teamplay and thinking and would do alot against all the moneyfarmers that ignore mission-objectives and just pad their damage and k/d stats.

But this is just a dream as a "thinking mans shooter" is,
its dumbed down and the rewards are matching for that simple play-style.

Edited by Galenit, 07 February 2017 - 02:59 AM.

[Oldbob10025]

MacClearly, on 05 February 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

Ok, so if you are doing 400-700 damage while helping your team win and providing support then you certainly are getting rewarded with cbills. If the OP was profiting as you are, would there be this thread?

My understanding is, that taking that loadout along is not paying very well for some. My only point is that I don't think it is a good idea to payout simply for bringing equipment along. That could be abused and encourage not what you are describing but farming through inactivity.

Also a good deal of the games I am playing the top damage guys are getting closer to 650 or 750. That is well matched games which are usually the only ones I pay attention to the scores after. Not a big Kodi guy either. If I am to pug with one it is going to be the Spirit Bear as personally I enjoy all the splat and speed. The 3, dual guass and ppc is on mine right now but maybe I should give the dakka a try again to see how easy it is after the nerf with it still being the number one target in the game.

You do make a good point on some people would just abuse it and I do agree with you on that issue. Its sad but most of the time if you give the players a chance to exploit a game or a "System" you put in place about 20% would exploit it to the point that it would have to be fixed or taken out all together...

I think the issue is that this being kinda a team game and some rolls involved say "Scouting" for lights, "Fill the holes" for mediums, and heavy and assaults would be "tanks" some people would like to see or some kinda reward for being support I guess is whats going on here. I find the most challenge being a support kitfox (3AMS,4 sm pulse, 8k AMS rounds) is supporting and finding ways to counter the other teams missiles and also have massive situational awareness around the battlefield as you cant just stand in one place, you have to run,jump.protect, find the missiles mechs see where they are firing at and counter them, give ECM so your team can deathball etc.. Its quite hard and the most rewarding I think.

But your also right on some people cant do most if anything of that in filling a support role as in the time i've played mechwarrior online i've only seen it about 50 times where they did a great job so your point on people abusing it is very valid and I agree with you.

Just would be nice to have support role c-bills thats all for taking that build out helping people is all as I can make much more money on my other mech builds...

Good conversation btw

[MacClearly]

Galenit, on 07 February 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

Your handicapping your firepower to make your team life longer.
Sacrifice some damage/cbills to gain better chance of winning.

"Standing around" with the tiny ecm bubble or the little more ams bubble?
Farming and exploiting?`Did you ever noticed the ecm-rewards?

They should give all actions the same rewards.
Capping, doing damage, ecm, counter-ecm, lance-formation, killing, spotting, ...
but the most of the money should come from wins, not simple point&click.
This would lead to more teamplay and thinking and would do alot against all the moneyfarmers that ignore mission-objectives and just pad their damage and k/d stats.

But this is just a dream as a "thinking mans shooter" is,
its dumbed down and the rewards are matching for that simple play-style.

So you are saying you would like the rewards the OP is asking for to be as negligible as as ecm is? Ok.

People keep saying this will lead to more team work but how? Murderball is already a strong tactic in quick play. What besides staying with team does this promote?

[MacClearly]

Oldbob10025, on 07 February 2017 - 06:02 AM, said:

You do make a good point on some people would just abuse it and I do agree with you on that issue. Its sad but most of the time if you give the players a chance to exploit a game or a "System" you put in place about 20% would exploit it to the point that it would have to be fixed or taken out all together...

I think the issue is that this being kinda a team game and some rolls involved say "Scouting" for lights, "Fill the holes" for mediums, and heavy and assaults would be "tanks" some people would like to see or some kinda reward for being support I guess is whats going on here. I find the most challenge being a support kitfox (3AMS,4 sm pulse, 8k AMS rounds) is supporting and finding ways to counter the other teams missiles and also have massive situational awareness around the battlefield as you cant just stand in one place, you have to run,jump.protect, find the missiles mechs see where they are firing at and counter them, give ECM so your team can deathball etc.. Its quite hard and the most rewarding I think.

But your also right on some people cant do most if anything of that in filling a support role as in the time i've played mechwarrior online i've only seen it about 50 times where they did a great job so your point on people abusing it is very valid and I agree with you.

Just would be nice to have support role c-bills thats all for taking that build out helping people is all as I can make much more money on my other mech builds...

Good conversation btw

As far as it being a good conversation I think that it helps that I like your videos and have a lot of respect for you for your promoting the game and sharing your knowledge with others.

If you can sense my cynicism it is because I don't see much in the way of teamwork in the first place. I think it would be incredibly tough to sell me on this being PGI's fault do to design, because the team with the most coordination almost always wins. Add to this there is continual complaints and efforts put into trying limit groups in the game from the ironically named group queue, or FW.

So you have 95% of the population sitting in the least cooperative mode in the game (not that it has to be) and concerted efforts to reduce teams. Again hard sell for me to believe that ams bonuses would be enough to encourage but the very few (who lets face it, if they like the idea whether I agree with them or not I probably want them on my team) that chances are already doing what the majority of the population appears to have no interest in.

[GabrielSun]

My thinking was the lights should get larger bonuses for protection/flanking, be given rewards for people shooting at and missing them, and have team damage awarded to them if they were within 20 or 30m of it (because usually someone's shooting at them and they hit a friend instead).

[Roughneck45]

I think there should be some rewards. Miniscule though, something to pat you on the back for bringing it.

Otherwise I agree with Mac on pretty much all points. Its the classic "damage is the most important" vs, "my snowflake tactics are more important" that's been going on since day one of beta.

Damage is the second most important thing in this game. Precise damage is #1. Triple AMS is much further down the list, with teamwork, aim, shielding, mechlab IQ, and all that other good stuff in-between.

Mechs don't die without being damaged, you don't win games without killing some mechs.

There are exceptions, of course, but that's what they are, exceptions. Ill take the guy that can shoot straight over the guy that wants to build a tag narc Raven every time.

Which sucks! I like BT lore, I'd like stuff like that to be consistently viable, but it isn't. Hell, if we were able to pick our mech after knowing the map and mode we'd be half way there.

Edited by Roughneck45, 07 February 2017 - 12:39 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

MacClearly, on 07 February 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

From my understanding you get a rewarded by the amount of time you hold a position. In both of these modes it is the objective and especially in conquest these points are being fought over. So you are in peril in a sense because the enemy knows exactly where you are. Holding is of strategic importance and therefor rewarded as such. So I disagree that you are just standing there or that there isn't importance or skill in doing it right. If you don't feel this way that's cool, we can just agree to disagree.

Standing in the base by yourself in Assault after the main forces have already engaged is of absolutely no strategic importance. All you're doing is handicapping your team. An assault or heavy pilot rushing to cap a distant point in Conquest is doing nothing of strategic importance when the rest of his team is fighting, because his absence in the fight makes it more likely for his team to lose (unless he's disarmed and near dead, but I digress). Both actions are stupid and both are rewarded.

And while capping a point announces your position to a team, standing next to a friendly being LRMed is also perilous, since the enemy obviously knows where that guy is, and by extension, now knows where you are.

MacClearly, on 07 February 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

Not sure here...I don't know anyone that spams the R key for the pittance that is given out. Not come across that behaviour at all. However if you discover where the main body is and target them all that would be a way to let the team know without using comms that they all were there. Again though I don't see that behaviour. However, targeting is in the game and it is part of the offense. Where the enemy is or getting locks for people to shoot their lrms is contributing to combat. Again you have not said anything here that convinces me (not that I am important or anything) that rewards shouldn't be given out for information. As far as voip it would be hard for PGI to reward pressing talk but certainly the team with better communication tends to be more successful on the scoreboard anyways...except for this one cantankerous fella who is a notoriously bad drop caller and likes to belittle people but ahem, just in case he is still skulking about I will avoid the name and shame (he's a notorious reporter of incidents too).

I have seen it. I've also done it myself in the days before VOIP and scouting rewards, because it seemed a useful shorthand for "lots of enemies in this area".


You seem to be under the impression that the only actions in the game that should be rewarded are the ones that require skill or risk, and that the only skillful actions in the game are the ones where you shoot the bad guys or target bad guys. This is simply not the case.

There is a skill to paying attention to the overall flow of battle and moving yourself to where you are needed. There is skill in positioning yourself to minimize exposure to multiple enemy mechs' fire. There is a skill in knowing when to share your armor and take the pressure off the teammate. There is a skill in maneuvering and twisting defensively to extend your ability to absorb fire for your team. Even with AMS, which works automatically, positioning is important. Standing next to a friendly under LRM fire is helpful, but it's AMS is even more effective when positioned between the launcher and the target, as the missiles have to travel for longer inside AMS range. That means you have to stand closer to the enemy, putting yourself at greater risk. You like rewarding risk, right? Well there you have it.



Heck, there ought to be a bonus for taking damage effectively, too Defensive twisting allows an Atlas to tank tremendous damage during a coordinated push, but prevents it from doing damage to the enemy. He'll get better rewards if he tries to shoot the enemy a lot, but if he dies faster, he's less useful as a tank. An Atlas that last 20 seconds under focus fire is far more valuable to an advancing team than one that dies in 10 seconds but gets a couple of hits in.

[MacClearly]

@Kaeb Odellas

Standing in the base by yourself in Assault after the main forces have already engaged is of absolutely no strategic importance. All you're doing is handicapping your team. An assault or heavy pilot rushing to cap a distant point in Conquest is doing nothing of strategic importance when the rest of his team is fighting, because his absence in the fight makes it more likely for his team to lose (unless he's disarmed and near dead, but I digress). Both actions are stupid and both are rewarded.

Full on redundant arguing here. Last time I will go back with you on this point as we do not nor will we ever agree here.

When you cap in assault, your actions could be ignored or it could split the team. Both of these situations can cause a game to be won (or lost). Knowing how to do so intelligently is the key. Saying that is stupid but then arguing standing next to an lrm boat is smarter is a bizarre argument.

And while capping a point announces your position to a team, standing next to a friendly being LRMed is also perilous, since the enemy obviously knows where that guy is, and by extension, now knows where you are.

Bringing ams itself gives positions away by the very nature of its dumb firing at every missile coming within a thousand metres (exaggeration for effect).


You seem to be under the impression that the only actions in the game that should be rewarded are the ones that require skill or risk, and that the only skillful actions in the game are the ones where you shoot the bad guys or target bad guys. This is simply not the case.

I am under that impression and have said so repeatedly. You disagree I get that. Yet that is not only my impression but it is functionally how the game currently works by design. So getting paid for bringing ams is not something that you have been able to argue deserves payout under the what skill is involved in equipping it in the mechlab argument. Staying with the team is not a skill. Especially if the team is just following one guy or chasing their own lights and you follow right along with them. Sorry it just isn't.


There is a skill to paying attention to the overall flow of battle and moving yourself to where you are needed. There is skill in positioning yourself to minimize exposure to multiple enemy mechs' fire. There is a skill in knowing when to share your armor and take the pressure off the teammate. There is a skill in maneuvering and twisting defensively to extend your ability to absorb fire for your team. Even with AMS, which works automatically, positioning is important. Standing next to a friendly under LRM fire is helpful, but it's AMS is even more effective when positioned between the launcher and the target, as the missiles have to travel for longer inside AMS range. That means you have to stand closer to the enemy, putting yourself at greater risk. You like rewarding risk, right? Well there you have it.

So your argument is go stand towards the enemy lurms or even to add to your argument, triangulate if there are multiple lurms from multiple directions even to give the best coverage... Great. You know what is even more effective and useful? Going and shooting the lurmers to death. So no I am not buying your best place to stand scenerio as skill based and having trouble with the idea that you actually believe it too. I just think you really want bonus bucks for mechlab choice.



Heck, there ought to be a bonus for taking damage effectively, too Defensive twisting allows an Atlas to tank tremendous damage during a coordinated push, but prevents it from doing damage to the enemy. He'll get better rewards if he tries to shoot the enemy a lot, but if he dies faster, he's less useful as a tank. An Atlas that last 20 seconds under focus fire is far more valuable to an advancing team than one that dies in 10 seconds but gets a couple of hits in.

There is a bonus. Survival. Then you get to put out measurable offense and profit.