814 replies to this topic

[Q res]

Spitballing here.

What if they removed the Cbill cost of the initial node unlock and only charged for respecs? And increase the cost of the respec while you're at it.

[Ravenlord]

Q res, on 08 February 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

Spitballing here.

What if they removed the Cbill cost of the initial node unlock and only charged for respecs? And increase the cost of the respec while you're at it.

Then it's even worse for people who like trying out new stuff. If anything I'd rather have it the other way round: Pay for the initial unlock but once mastered respecs are free.

[Arkhangel]

YUyahoo, on 08 February 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

While it is nice that we are getting XP/GXP refunded to us there is still a huge problem that other have pointed out...it takes almost 3 times as much XP to fully skill a mech as it does now. If I have say 150 mechs fully skilled now I should also have 150 mechs fully skilled in the new system (not 50ish). 57,250 xp in the old system should equal 136,000ish in the new system

actually... it doesn't. a lot of these skills are MODULES currently, or don't even exist yet. and some of those old pilot skills really actually weren't even worth getting for some mechs either. there's nothing saying you HAVE to fully spec out a mech.

@Q res: the cost is the cost of modifying your mech to have that quirk. and honestly, even if you're a crappy player, you're still gonna have enough to unlock a node after two matches, or enough for two nodes after a really good match, and so on.

Honestly, fully specced mechs will be ones you actually PLAY a lot. there's no way in hell you guys with 260+ Mechs actually use them all that much. I have roughly 80, and i maybe use forty of those Mechs, and maybe 20 of them regularly. Honestly, i'd just use the matches I use said mechs in to pay for their spec-outs. done.

Quirks were meant as a stopgap measure. they were never meant to be the end-all-be-all of MechWarrior. same goes for the old piloting and mech skills, and Modules. what we're seeing is how they always WANTED it to be in the first place. You're playing an MMO. Adapt, or leave, it's that simple.

also, for the guy noting "A lot of Competitive players have left the game over this"? those guys are bailing BECAUSE Meta-mongers are getting shafted hardcore, as they should. the new trees will honestly prove that the best actual pilots will carry the day, as they realized what they actually needed, and didn't just attempt to boat, thinking that's all they needed to do.

After all, the amount of damage you do doesn't really matter as much as WHERE it's done to, and stuff like Vectoring, and the various Mobility, infotech, etc stuff will actually present a ton of tactical options to savvy players. e.g. say, a team thinking it's safe because "no one could possibly jump that ravine behind us", enter Vector-specced Lance that vaults it because they spent the points into that and the skill for burn time on JJs, thus giving them a flanking advantage, and juicy rear armor to chew on.

Edited by Arkhangel, 08 February 2017 - 09:45 PM.

[FerretboysRevenge]

Whats with the arbitrary 91 skills? why am I buying things I don't need or want to get to the things I need? why am I being penalized for having a large stable of mechs that I have worked hard to master and have become comfortable with? whats wrong with quirks? if you make these changes why have two types of EXP anymore? To me this takes away from customizability and pretty much makes all chasis the same for a model, so why have multiples anymore and just open up hard points?

[Angm4r]

Re-specing costs.

It's like it was designed by an evil genius. But without the genius.

[Q res]

Ravenlord, on 08 February 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

Then it's even worse for people who like trying out new stuff. If anything I'd rather have it the other way round: Pay for the initial unlock but once mastered respecs are free.

This is actually a very good point. Like I said, spitballing.

[YUyahoo]

Arkhangel, on 08 February 2017 - 09:39 PM, said:

actually... it doesn't. a lot of these skills are MODULES currently, or don't even exist yet. and some of those old pilot skills really actually weren't even worth getting for some mechs either. there's nothing saying you HAVE to fully spec out a mech.

@Q res: the cost is the cost of modifying your mech to have that quirk. and honestly, even if you're a crappy player, you're still gonna have enough to unlock a node after two matches, or enough for two nodes after a really good match, and so on.

Honestly, fully specced mechs will be ones you actually PLAY a lot. there's no way in hell you guys with 260+ Mechs actually use them all that much. I have roughly 80, and i maybe use forty of those Mechs, and maybe 20 of them regularly. Honestly, i'd just use the matches I use said mechs in to pay for their spec-outs. done.

Quirks were meant as a stopgap measure. they were never meant to be the end-all-be-all of MechWarrior. same goes for the old piloting and mech skills, and Modules. what we're seeing is how they always WANTED it to be in the first place. You're playing an MMO. Adapt, or leave, it's that simple.

also, for the guy noting "A lot of Competitive players have left the game over this"? those guys are bailing BECAUSE Meta-mongers are getting shafted hardcore, as they should.

PGI asked for feedback, I provided mine, as for your "adapt or leave" mandate...well since you do not own or run PGI or MWO I will keep providing my feedback and ignoring your trollish comments. It is a valid point I am making, we should be able to have the same number of mechs fully skilled/leveled in the new system as we do in the current systems even if that current systems is just a "placeholder"

[DAYLEET]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 February 2017 - 04:19 PM, said:

So who wants to calculate the effective number of skill points?

Effective skill points = 91 - X

where X is the number of skill points it takes to unlock Seismic 1 and Seismic 2.

Taking the 2 Seismic takes 12 points, Radar Dep is on the same tree and taking it with seism takes 20 points total.

The others offer a bigger buff if you take them all. For exemple LIVE Kinetic Burst with X2 is at 15% but PTS has 4nodes at 10%. How this affect mech that loses their inherent buff i can't tell, my HGN IIC isnt changed at all and retain 45% on both live and PTS but can go up to 95% on PTS.

Cool shot and Heat Containment cost 19 points together.

Speed Tweak cost 17 points and gets all Kinetic Burst and Hard Breaks. you could skip one hard break and be at 16 points. Man i hate playing un-elited mech, where stopping and going forward takes half an hour so im taking those too.

Like i said so far theres more room on PTS and all nodes ammount to a greater buff to the LIVE x2 buff. Still, knowing me, i guess ill just skip most weapon nodes. Since i only used Weapon Modules on IS mech, i might play more clanners now, whome i never felt needed the weapon modules.

Another "general rule" ill have i guess is that now, at 9.1millions, 1 wont be getting new mech and then try lots of loadout for fun on them or just go yolo with a dumb build like i used to. Now when i play ill only do that one build with as much boating of the same weapon that i know works since it will cost me 9 fkin million. :/

My only problem with all of this is the cost. I feel even more constrained than before and i wasnt the kind of guy that was locked in meta build. But now will i play with the tree and try new things like before? hell no.

[FerretboysRevenge]

I guess I was kinda hoping for each mech to get its own unique skill tree instead of them all having the same skill tree. Heck it wouldn't have taken that much effort to do it by just adding to the existing skill trees.

[Bluttrunken]

9 million to spec a single mech? That would set me at a cost of 1.350.000.000 cBills for 150 mechs and I have more than that. Yeah I'll have a big influx of cBills because of my modules, but I never bought modules for each of my mechs but rather only had a enough mech modules and weapon modules to kit a FP drop.

For the sake of everyone with a big roster of mechs, and new players as well, make the first spec free and only charge for respecs. Not sure if I'd stick around otherwise because I'd need to grind out most of my mechs again. We're talking here about probably ~80-100 I'd need to do again.

Edited by Bluttrunken, 08 February 2017 - 10:20 PM.

[SilentScreamer]

I was excited about the new skill tree when it was first teased in December. More customization sounded great, but at what price? One player, Prosparity Park posted that Russ had tweeted the new tree was going to cost no less than the original tree to master, then in the same post stated plans had changed....

Prosperity Park, on 04 December 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Yup, PGI is releasing the new skill tree in its final form that will never be changed and the amount of points required to unlock the new nodes will always remain exactly how they are now. It will never change. It is final.

Oh, wait...

Maybe it can be changed? Maybe we should calm down and not scream and shout like kindergarteners about millions of XP. Maybe we should provide feedback after we actually begin using the system.

https://mwomercs.com...er-adjustments/

This is a case where I really wish the player included an actual quote of what they read....

Was transitioning a mech Mastered under the current system to "mastered" under the new system really ever part of the plan? The current system takes ~60,000 xp for skills and a few GXP unlocks plus 6 to 12 mil c-bills for modules . By comparison the XP requirements for the new system 100,000 c-bills and 1,500 xp times 75 nodes is 7.5 mill c-bills but over 110,000 XP. Seems a high on new XP costs.

Common advice in the New Player section of the forum is never sell a mech for 3 reasons
1) You needed to level 3 variants to get from Basic to Elite
2) Frequent quirk changes could make a lame duck into a golden goose
3) as the resale value is far too low

With the proposed changes 1 & 2 will no longer be relavent. 3) is still true...but the cost of millions of c-bills when maxing nodes under the new system means most mechs will be more expensive to keep than the loss taken by selling them.

If I keep my best performers and sell the underdogs I can free up 33% to 66% of my current mechbays. I won't need to purchase new bays for years. Awesome!

Edited by SilentScreamer, 09 February 2017 - 05:49 AM.

[SuperFunkTron]

Hastur Azargo, on 08 February 2017 - 09:21 PM, said:

I have 262 mechs, a lot of them are elited, a lot have been untouched since 2012-13. Now not only do I have to spend a lot more time playing each, I'm also facing a MASSIVE c-bill paywall if I want them leveled again. I'm speechless really.

I just want to know why you will have to touch the mechs you don't want to use, especially those you haven't touched in years. Do you feel the need to elite all of them, even if you hate playing them?

[Strelok7]

Questions:
1) So it seems "cheaper" overall, am I getting it right???
Ex: If I care about Advanced zoom only, it would cost me 400.000 CB and 6.000 XP to get to it? (Advanced zoom costs 2.000.000 CB right now)

2) Draw back - it costs less, but can't be transferred between mechs

Thoughts:

• Modules make more sense. Advanced zoom is not a skill, it's a device.

• You are forcing me to equip the mech with 3 target related skills in order to get "Radar Deprivation". I don't need that on this mech.

• The "skill tree" system does not provide a significantly simpler revamp of current system, in order to justify it's implementation.

• Yes, you have skills + modules = in one "clean" system called "skill tree", But it is not clean.

Here is why:




You are introducing 2 new "currencies". This is becoming a FOREX of various currencies = Overkill.
Too many variables in 1 spot. Cbills, GXP, XP and now SP + HSP. It's a MESS.
As developers, you know what all those things are, but a new player doesn't. And why should he/she bother getting entangled in learning so much just to play a computer game.

Strictly Business Suggestion
PGI introduces and scraps, introduces and scraps. That's a ton load of man hours $$$. Observational solution: use your community, players are very willing to help. Idea > introduce to player base > Feedback > YES/NO = YES > only then proceed to initial beta development (man/hrs $$$)

[DGTLDaemon]

Am I reading this right? 91 nodes x 1500 XP = 136500 XP to master a mech? Are PGI out of their f*cking mind? They promised us that the total amount of grind would remain roughly the same...

Edited by DGTLDaemon, 08 February 2017 - 10:51 PM.

[Existenciadormida]

WTF i dont like skill trees.
THE steamnization continues $$$$$

Edited by Existenciadormida, 08 February 2017 - 11:04 PM.

[Exbe]

I have an issue with portal. Looks like it duplicates game content twice and I am running out of free space. Once I close patchbot process it gives me back 26Gb of space. Is that only me who have this issue?

Also, if you restart and will try to patch it - the portal just sits there and does nothing. Update: it actually reads file - you need to wait for 15 min or so to initialize itself and pick up from latest interruption.

Edited by Exbe, 08 February 2017 - 11:32 PM.

[Stitchedup]

why not make an agility nodes cBill free? and anything else weapon, radar derp, cost you the cBill plus gxp that why you are closer to the old system but still able to customize your mech with the new stuff. This helps the the new players not get too outclassed in the early stages of their development.

[Appogee]

My Pokemech days ends right here. I have 243 Mechs, almost all of them Mastered. But I'll be selling the crap-ton of less competitive variants that I previously Mastered, and re-using the CBills to Master only the Mechs that are most competitive.

Overall, there will be a lot less testing of builds under this new system. That's a shame, because it's one thing that makes the game enjoyable.

Rather than spending CBills to respec Mechs, it may make more sense to buy two of every Mech. I may maintain a 'skilled up competitive version', but try different experimental loadouts on separate a 'testing version'.

Edited by Appogee, 08 February 2017 - 11:59 PM.

[DGTLDaemon]

So, was this a blatant lie by PGI? Because 136k XP is in no way "similar" to 56k XP...

[THOR Mk 7]

DGTLDaemon, on 09 February 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

So, was this a blatant lie by PGI? Because 136k XP is in no way "similar" to 56k XP...

Don`t forget, this is just PTS, not a production. I think, they will change figures to some kind of normal.