155 replies to this topic

[MrHail]

Fox2232, on 09 February 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

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[Arianrhod]

Fox2232, on 09 February 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

Well, XP argument may be considered as correct. But if we do so, there is new question which not many will like to hear:
"Didn't you play mech after you mastered it? Why don't you have additional XP?"
In other words: "Anyone who lacks XP for new system spent most of his time Mastering mech and jumping to next one instead of enjoying it fully Mastered one."
From What you wrote, it is apparently not your case, but it is case for most. And then they should be used to play mech which are not mastered since that's what they are doing 80~90% of their time spent in game.

Ad for Your Cash issue, that one is quite real. But it has it flaws too. 1st one is rhetorical. Being conservative and stating that you make only 100k C-Bills per match is actually being pessimistic as conservative person would probably give benefit of doubt and used overshot value like 200k. (To reduce needed number of games.)
2nd is: No matter how many mech you have, you's still be able to fully skill quite reasonable number of them. If you have 100 of them and manage to skill up only 40. I am sure you'' skill up those you play and enjoy most. And while you enjoy those huge benefits of new tree, you'll gain money for rest of them in background.

Then there is real benefit of no more sharing Modules and looking for that mech where you left it. What does it actually cost to have modules on few full dropdecks in current system? Well, now Modules are out of way as they are as cheap as +2% to Laser Range.

Well here's my deal.
1. My actual average from my game stats is about 97,000 c-bills per match. This includes six months of gameplay early on when I was absolute trash and made very little money per match (aside from the fact that average c-bill rewards were lower on the whole when I started playing), which is why I say my actual value should be somewhat more than that, but I can't really project accurately so I just based my calculations off my statistics. I don't see how that can be bad rhetoric. Yeah, that number probably makes me look bad, but it's reality.

2. I have 52 mechs in my inventory, mostly Inner Sphere. Of those 52, there are three that I wouldn't bother specing. That's it. Only 3 variants that I don't use much—I still like them, but I just don't use them as much. I'm a ******* fangirl and I love all the goddamn mechs, and I don't see anything wrong with playing PokeMech and gathering up all the mechs I loved in MechWarrior 4.

3. Everyone swaps modules. Yeah, swapping modules is a pain. But paying out the *** for new ones when you play the game cuz you want goddamn mechs is a lot more painful, so swapping modules is how we do. And I think I am entitled to use the royal We here because even many top-tier players don't have modules for every single mech they use.

4. Lastly, you are correct in that I have more than enough XP to cover the mechs I'll want to master most. My absolute all-time favorite mechs are the ON1-VA, the GHR-5H, and the SMN-B, and all these mechs have enough mech XP currently to remaster. But unfortunately, the new skill tree would significanly lengthen the grind for my recent and future acquisitions, such as my shiny new Bushwackers, or mechs that I've mastered but haven't put in significant playtime to get a ridiculous amounts of XP like my Linebackers. These are both chassis that I really love playing but will no longer have the ability to level in a timely fashion. I think that would affect new players especially adversely, because in Tier 5 you don't currently need modules (no, seriously, I got out of tier five without using modules and I'm sure I'm not the only one who did) and can just focus on acquiring a decent stable of started mechs, whereas you Do need skills to stay competitive with the other pilots in your tier, which currently don't cost c-bills.
Tl;dr, new players feel the pain way more than I will, which isn't to say that I won't feel a significant amount of pain.

Fox2232, on 09 February 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

Then there is real benefit of no more sharing Modules and looking for that mech where you left it. What does it actually cost to have modules on few full dropdecks in current system? Well, now Modules are out of way as they are as cheap as +2% to Laser Range.

Dropdecks ftw? I know not of these dropdecks of which you speak . . . . *proudly displays Beta 2 title, for whatever that's worth*

[Brax SC1]

hi there! i'm new player, i started few weeks ago, and after trial time and a lot of research on the web, i choose my main mech, my first main mech a HBK

then i start playing, loving the game, understanding the grind, buying other two HBK that i will play with too, all of this because the idea to master my first main mech was delicious! and grow in me.

It was my first personnal challenge in the game, i'm now with three Elite HBK my main is 6K/21.5K xp for the +1 module

i can play my main mech three different way, and i soon finish mastered them. Was very funny.

Now i read this, i understand that maybe the skill three will change soo

Now i'm sad

idk why

[HolyTerra]

Swamp Fox II, on 09 February 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

There are 338 unlockable nodes in the skill tree, your 'mech can have 91/338 of them. Once the 'mech hits 91 spent, it is "mastered" (but perhaps not really just shut off from new nodes)

And in order to get the things in the skill tree you do want, it forces you to pick up things you might not. Thereby wasting some of your 91 slots.

[Sorbic]

Galenit, on 09 February 2017 - 12:05 AM, said:

All of my mechs have at least 2 modules,
alone the refund will give me 9 millions or more for each mech.

If you dont have modules worth the 9 millions you will not lose anything,
you will just need to find some money, the same money you would have needed to find to buy modules worth 9 millions in the old system.

You swaped modules? Just bough one of the expencive ones to spare spacebucks?
Bad luck, exploiting has its price ...

Ok you need more xp, but you dont need the rule of 3 anymore,
only if you used 3 variants you will need to find some more xp, if not, the old rule of 3 should have given you enough xp to master one of the three.

lol "exploiting has its price..." Please, tell me what kind of mental gymnastics it took to turn swapping modules into an exploit?

I only have one for most of the module types I have. I have 2-3 of a few certain modules. Basically I will get a decent bit (nowhere near the 1.6 billion needed) of cbills back. Pretending I kept playing at such rates I'd be spending a long time restoring my mechs to where they are now instead of filling and buying mech bays.

But congrats on having sunk so much into modules that you can look down on everyone one who hasn't/newer players and scoff at their ill fortune. Keep looking out for #1 and don't forget to wave to those who walk away from the game if PGI keeps it at 100k.

[MBT808]

I haven't had time to test myself, but based on what I've seen on youtube thus far, I think we're better off sticking with the current mech skill tree the way they are. other than the crazy expenses(especially with how often the meta changes in mwo) and balance problems that will come. It is, as the saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it. It will also lead to the IS getting weaker as a whole and the clans generally becoming stronger(by relative comparison), not something I'm looking forward to(its hard enough being an IS pilot these days). I mean skill reductions for the clans though, out of everything that I have seen, is something I would like in the existing skills we have now. I think that would improve the balance of the game generally and give more viability to the IS.

Another thing that could cause problems here is with the introduction of new tech/weapons in the summer, which would potentially cause even worse balance problems to occur. Again, I say lets pass on the new skill system and stick with what we have now with some adjustments/improvements.

[Tibbnak]

[Fr0z7y]

first things first, current mechs with quirks should have those skill nodes already placed on the mechs. any mechs currently skilled / mastered with those skills should have those nodes already placed on the mechs.

the c-bill price is beyond silly.. ridiculous.. outrageous, blah blah blah, everything everyone said in this post about it being bad.

anyone saying this system isn't messed up is trolling those that are saying it because they are clanners, or just trolling period for fun / tears / whatever...

the only way i could be swayed to say "yeah leave the c-bill price there" is if you did the above about having the quirk nodes already assigned to the specific mechs that those quirks are on currently, meaning if i wanted to start tweaking those mechs into something else, i have to pay for it, and pay a pretty penny.

to level up heat containment and such, that still would cost me, as those are secondary nodes to master, i'm not talking about weapon masteries, as those are the inherent skills nodes that should already be applied to the mechs in question.

but seriously, those of us that do have a huge stable of mechs is because of your current 3 mech setup scheme, so you need to take note to your current quirk system and put those nodes in place on the mech when they are first bought and paid for, as well as on any mechs that are currently in all of our stables, the rest would be our choice to purchase or modify those quirks on the chassis. seriously, that's a win win for everyone.

why? i can see keeping the laser/missile/projectile quirks in place that are there, even some of the survivability quirks and some of the other stuff.. but we have to chose how the rest of the mech gets put together, or even if we wish to rip those quirks off of the mech and replace them with something else.

[Nightshade24]

mad kat, on 09 February 2017 - 04:42 AM, said:

For the most part you're right but for when 4 and half years of play time the condition has been you need 'X' amount of skill and need to 3 mechs that's fine. That's a condition that has been laid out from the get go from closed beta.

Now not only are they totally changing the set up but they are also putting a payment barrier on what we already have and the 'grind' as Russ said will stay roughly the same where crunching my stats at present i have an excess of XP on the vast majority of my mechs, under this new system i don't even have half the XP requirement to bring them back to their current level.

I won't use the word fraud but it can most certainly be regarded as betrayal of sorts.

Sadly that's the way gaming goes. This upcoming change can be the best possible thing for MW: O but simply changing from what we're used to or remember to something new will be discomforting, tedious a little, etc...

Many other games out there had similar changes through Development, World of Tanks, War Thunder, Robocraft, etc. Some of the changes you love in MW: O right now possibly made lots of people upset at the time of the addition... TBH I love quirks but many people feel cheated that there preferred playstyle isn't supported by a quirk and left... TBH I loved quirks as they made mechs like the hunchback, catapult, jenner, etc feel useful again and had a purpose and I think this tree is that but better.

The game is very different then what it was in 2012, no surprise 2017 will be more different and I can promise you with the ideas of ai tanks, quad mechs, more physics based stuff and the glimmer of melee being some of the far out ideas that are on the side burners in PGI with things like Solaris VII, 3060 tech, and stuff like that the game will just keep getting more and more different.

People are scared and hate changes rather they be good or bad. I am open to see what happens and PGI does listen to the (constructive) posts on the forums... by my math this doesn't seem unreasonable compared to modules as well as PGI's proposal for boosting the economy in earlier PTS's...

[Nightshade24]

RestosIII, on 09 February 2017 - 10:12 AM, said:

Okay, so, 3.8m PER VARIANT I own. 190m straight up cost. Oh, but wait! There's more! Some of my mechs are getting their offensive quirks gutted because of the skill tree! So I need to add weapon squirks on some of my mechs to make up for it! So, let's just give a small estimate of... 220m? At a constant rate of 200,000 C-Bills per match, I'd need 1,100 matches to get back to where I was right now on the live server, not counting the XP cost increases on some of my mechs. That's way too much for me, as casual-*** player.

Claim to be a casual, have 50 mechs (that's several dozens more then the average casual who usually stops at 4...)...

The funny part this patch promotes casual players. Instead of wasting money on another mech, and then another mech, and then another mech... they would just use all that money on the few mechs they do have and make those optimal or reach their full potential. Considering a new player gets like 22,000,000 c-bills when they just start off or something like that after their first 25 matches or something? They can get virtually any mech they want, modify it, and they can buy each upgrade as they unlock it with xp...

Also, with your estimate number of matches to get back to "where you were" before. (Which you didn't CARE about weapon quirks obviously because weapon modules behaved the same way... why do you not care for modules but care for quirks that did the same thing?... they stack you know!).

A total of 183 hours... if you spend 2 hours a week day and 5 hours each weekend that's 20 hours per week into the game... 9 weeks (nearly 2 months) to get your mechs better then they are before hand at to your liking... considering some games require that time for just a single vehicle I think PGI is a bit modest... that assumed from your math and lightly playing the game every day... of course there are other variables out there no?...

Those premium times that PGI gives out virtually nearly every month... the events that give you extra C-bills left and right, MC (which can be used as well on these), premium time, or useless equipment you can sell off.. you can get free mechs which you can also sell everything on that mech and the mech itself.... CW also gives lots of money as well, it's like what, 20 minutes for 500,000 c-bills instead of 30 minutes for 200,000 c-bills? (2 QP average matches that took 15 minutes)...

But another question is do you have to max EVERYTHING you own right now and then? I am a bit of a collector myself and even though I barely play each mech twice a month I still have several mechs I haven't touched in nearly a year... you don't have to go across all your mechs and grind them up. Just play at your own pace and do what you enjoy.

[chucklesMuch]

I think that there ought to be a benefit, such as a discounted cbill/exp cost per skill point, for having mutliple variants of the same chassis. The proposed cost model for skills seems like it penalises people who have alot of mechs mastered but all not pimped out with modules.

[Khalcruth]

Such a good post Nightshade24.

Come on people, the sky is not falling. Here's a hint - if you're not using a mech now, it doesn't hurt you to not have it fully skilled later, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT USING IT.

For all of those people whining about having 150 mechs to skill? I don't believe you for a second that you actually use all of them. Even if you use 10 different mechs a day, every day, for two weeks, you STILL haven't used all your stable, and you've only used each one once every two weeks. I don't believe you if you say you have to skill them all, because I don't believe you use them all right now anyway.

Also, another hint - play more Faction Warfare. The cbills and xp you make there are (even on the low end) at least double what you make per minute when compared to quickplay.

[Bud Crue]

Khalcruth, on 10 February 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

Such a good post Nightshade24.

Come on people, the sky is not falling. Here's a hint - if you're not using a mech now, it doesn't hurt you to not have it fully skilled later, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT USING IT.

For all of those people whining about having 150 mechs to skill? I don't believe you for a second that you actually use all of them. Even if you use 10 different mechs a day, every day, for two weeks, you STILL haven't used all your stable, and you've only used each one once every two weeks. I don't believe you if you say you have to skill them all, because I don't believe you use them all right now anyway.

Also, another hint - play more Faction Warfare. The cbills and xp you make there are (even on the low end) at least double what you make per minute when compared to quickplay.

So because I don't use a mech it is okay for this system to make that mech less useful than it was? I paid for that mech, spent the time skilling it, spent time and money on modules, etc. but the fact that I am not actively using that mech right now is sufficient justification for PGI to take away the value of that mech and to take away its previous degree of usefulness?

I disagree.

By the TOS PGI can in fact do whatever it wants, but to pretend that their effective elimination of most of the function and playability of my collection of mechs if just spiffy because I don't actively play that entire collection is absurd. By doing such, they are in effect taking away what I have purchased and made. Out side of the TOS that would be theft or at best diminishment of value; within the terms of the TOS it is still lame as hell.

[-Pik-]

Keep the node cb/xp prices, but make the mech come with 45-50 nodes unlocked by default.
this would help new players because they can start customize right away and it would reduce the grind for veterans.

respec should be free, nothing less.

merge weapon trees to prevent boating or punish it harsher via ghost heat.

[Cato Phoenix]

Mister Blastman, on 08 February 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

Some of us play one or two mechs, and can play an entire session in only one. I own four seismics, that is all. Any more than four of any module is insane. It is a colossal waste of money. And besides, if you have enough time to earn 1.3 billion to buy that many modules... you have PLENTY of time to waste.

Swapping modules is a pain, and regardless, if you're going to play a lot of CW than having more than 4 copies is worthwhile.. I rarely play a mech for more than a few drops before I jump in something else and crank up the gears in that. Many of my mechs have dedicated weapon modules, but not all have the seismic and deprivation other than my go-to mechs. I probably have 2-3 copies of weapon modules that I use commonly, a few zooms, and targeting infos etc floating around, probably like 10-15 copies of seismic/radar for FP mechs. Mechs that have unusual loadouts in my stable (SHC-P machinegun boat, my medium pulseback, etc) have their own weapon modules racked and ready to go.

I'm with Resto in that for pug matches I generally just jump in without fully loading the modules out. Sure, they're a nice edge, but I've never put them in the 'must have' capacity. So the skill tree for me represents the ability to get those unlocked without the headache of moving those modules. I think 9.1 mil is a bit steep, but 25-50% of that seems more reasonable. I'm OK with the XP cost as well - I think making a mech ultimately optimized should be an investment.

[Dragon 4]

It wasn't broke to begin with. Easy to change mods between mechs. When they quirked down mechs you could stop playing them or forget them unitl they fixed them again (Victor).
If you notice the skill tree would look ok except for the cost and time it will take you to mess with it. What screws up the test is that it looks like they changed the mechs quirks which existed previously. I have over 200 mechs /master 20%. Can't and won't do the grind. Enjoy the game and the strategy, but can't play 8 hours a day. We hould of suspected that something was up when the mech packs didnt include modules.......