25 replies to this topic

[Dogstar]

As a casual player the skill tree change as it stands is going to seriously affect my playing of the game. I like all the classic IS mechs that came out in the last year or so and have bought a bunch of them (over 100 in total).

However for many of them I have hardly played more than a few matches because I have to grind and grind to afford the c-bills to buy the XL engines that are pretty much mandatory for most mech builds.

This means I don't have many modules, or much XP on most of my mechs but with the current system I'd eventually be able to buy a decent build for each mech and then work towards getting all the skill unlocks.

However with the new skill tree system it appears that I'll have to trade off between buying skills and buying builds. There's no way I'll be able to afford to kit out more than a mech or two out of my whole stable.

In effect each mech just got 9 million c-bills more expensive when I'm already struggling to buy the basics like endo/ferro, DHS, and XL engines.

That's just too much for me so unless there's some radical changes I'm pretty much done here and I'm cancelling my preorders of he Assassin, Roughneck, and Javelin until those changes occur.

[Bud Crue]

On the one hand, I agree that as the system currently is instituted on the PTS it is a disaster from just about any perspective I can conceive of. That being said...this is a PTS. I'd suggest you let it run its course before doing anything rash. I would also note that every other aspect of the game put forth in a past PTS was dumped by PGI. While I don't really expect that to occur here, I do expect that there willl be some substantive changes to the system before it goes live. If not...then by all means abandon ship. You certainly won't be alone.

[Malrock]

Dogstar, on 09 February 2017 - 06:21 AM, said:

As a casual player the skill tree change as it stands is going to seriously affect my playing of the game. I like all the classic IS mechs that came out in the last year or so and have bought a bunch of them (over 100 in total).

However for many of them I have hardly played more than a few matches because I have to grind and grind to afford the c-bills to buy the XL engines that are pretty much mandatory for most mech builds.

This means I don't have many modules, or much XP on most of my mechs but with the current system I'd eventually be able to buy a decent build for each mech and then work towards getting all the skill unlocks.

However with the new skill tree system it appears that I'll have to trade off between buying skills and buying builds. There's no way I'll be able to afford to kit out more than a mech or two out of my whole stable.

In effect each mech just got 9 million c-bills more expensive when I'm already struggling to buy the basics like endo/ferro, DHS, and XL engines.

That's just too much for me so unless there's some radical changes I'm pretty much done here and I'm cancelling my preorders of he Assassin, Roughneck, and Javelin until those changes occur.

I too am trying to decide whether to stick with the game if this goes live. I find the new system is super punishing. I will be holding off on my planned MC purchase under the "sweet deal" promo, until we hear if there will be any changes. As things sit now I may be done with the game as well.

[xe N on]

If that comes live I quit too.

IS mech become even more bad, meta becomes even more stronger and boating even more better.

Next stompy robot game on my list:

http://store.steampo....com/app/416020

[OneTomboNation]

All in all, the punishing aspects of the skill tree are punishing everyone Making people choose between what to prioritize in their builds is key, the grind is key also. As you basic/elite/master a mech in the past would chnage the build so as the grind went you got used to playing frugally with a mech, really playing your role. It makes a better pilot once you have the skills you want. Also, 91 skill points allows more than what is allowed by a mere 2/3 weapon modules and 1/2 mech modules. Have you played PTS or wtached videos of combat? The mechs are tankier, TTK is way up...its walking fighting brawling robots now. This is what I remember from previous mechwarriors. The result of the skill tree is the combat many have been waiting for.

I understand you are upset, but play the game and select 2 wepaons you wnats to really quirk out for each build and spend the rest on defense or whatever else. Itll be fine.

[naterist]

I think the xp is high considering its about the same xp as a skill pre-skilltree, but the cbill part i think people a freaking about needlessly. 9 mil is the same as having three weapon module slots filled, and if you focus mech skills then your actually paying less cbills then you would have for 3 mech modules.

Everyone breathe, its ok.

I think the xp is high considering its about the same xp as a skill pre-skilltree, but the cbill part i think people a freaking about needlessly. 9 mil is the same as having three weapon module slots filled, and if you focus mech skills then your actually paying less cbills then you would have for 3 mech modules.

Everyone breathe, its ok.

[Nesutizale]

Haveing played a bit I also find that while the system isn't perfect I think its not that game breaking to quite.
My mech feelt pretty much the same, except I could jump longer (yay) and got a bit tankier...never survived two full blows from a Thunderbold in my Urbie before... ^__^

The point realy is that you have to make a chooise. Personaly I would even reduce the number of points to spend to make each points feel realy painfull.

Still its a good start...needs some work BUT that is what can finaly be called a skilltree...even if its not perfect.

Edited by Nesutizale, 09 February 2017 - 10:17 AM.

[Ori Disciple]

naterist, on 09 February 2017 - 10:12 AM, said:

I think the xp is high considering its about the same xp as a skill pre-skilltree, but the cbill part i think people a freaking about needlessly. 9 mil is the same as having three weapon module slots filled, and if you focus mech skills then your actually paying less cbills then you would have for 3 mech modules.

Everyone breathe, its ok.

I think the xp is high considering its about the same xp as a skill pre-skilltree, but the cbill part i think people a freaking about needlessly. 9 mil is the same as having three weapon module slots filled, and if you focus mech skills then your actually paying less cbills then you would have for 3 mech modules.

Everyone breathe, its ok.

I also raise an eyebrow when people bring up the C-bill cost. I consider myself "average", and I make 100k c-bills a match, so it's no problem there. the only issue for me is the XP, which require me to play 2 matches to get enough. I still think the cost is a bit too high for newer players, but I have a hard time believing that the people testing this really have an income problem.

[Felbombling]

I see the OPs point, but the 9.1 million price tag is peanuts compared to the old three Mech system. Take a look at the Viper for an example. I bought the Medusa on sale. Mounted six ER Small Lasers and four MG, with a few heat sinks and a couple of Omni-Pods to flesh it out. That is probably half a million C-Bills for the upgrades to a Mech Credit purchase. Radar Deprivation, ER Small Laser Range and Cool down modules, with a Cool shot 9 and UAV. I'm at 12.5 million and change to run the Medusa non-mastered.

Next I will have to buy two more Vipers to meet the old three Mech levelling requirement. I could pick up the VPR Prime for 9 542 887 and the VPR B for 9 611 887. That'd cost me 19 154 774 C-Bills. Hell, let's pick them up during the last sale, giving them a 35% discount. That makes it 12 450 604 C-Bills. Add that to the modules I can carry over from the Medusa, and we're looking at 24 950 774 C-Bills total to Master the Medusa.

Alright... so now I only have to worry about the Medusa and the 9.1 million skill tree investment, so that seems pretty reasonable to me by comparison.

Oh, and as to the XP requirements, the old system required you, as a new player, to level three chassis through basic [3x 14250xp = 42750xp] and those same three chassis through elite [3x 21500xp = 64500xp], then finally the 21500xp required to Master the Medusa. So... 128750xp grand total. Of course, that number dips by weight class once completed once, to 85750xp.

In that regard, given the cost savings, I don't think that the 136500xp single Mech requirement is that crazy. The game is still a grind and a time investment. The investment has simply shifted.

I might post again today as a player with a medium sized hangar with about forty or so Mechs. I haven't crunched all the numbers yet, but I'm assuming I'll find little need for many Mechs in my current fleet, given the time burden required to flesh them out, which is odd to say for the health of the game moving forward. I'm not sure where I see PGI making money at this point. Where is the incentive to buy now that the old system has been done away with?

Edited by StaggerCheck, 09 February 2017 - 10:47 AM.

[Dogstar]

>Also, 91 skill points allows more than what is allowed by a mere 2/3 weapon modules and 1/2 mech modules

> 9 mil is the same as having three weapon module slots filled

Note that I've got maybe a dozen modules all together across over 100 mechs because they've been too expensive to buy, I've been spending what I've earned on XL engines no on modules.

For people who've been playing a lot or for a long time these changes aren't as much of a problem because the will have Russ's 'hundreds of millions' to spend on skilling up their mechs.

But for 'casual' players like me the skill costs are prohibitive, I won't be able to have 91 skill points on each mech, I'll be lucky to have it on half a dozen mechs which means I'm f*cked when it comes to skilling up the other hundred.

I'll probably have to sell of two out of three variants on each of my chassis and I won't be purchasing any more mech packs either.

Frankly it's easier to go and play another game. Well played PGI.

[Nesutizale]

I agree that new player might have a problem. There was another thread there that suggested that the skills get more expansive the further down the tree they are.

That would make sense to me, as in the old system the first skills where also easier to get then the elite and master skills.

As for the CBill price. I think there could be a smiliar mechanic at work.


I think they need to balance "the old guys who have everything a 100x times" vs the new or casual players.
Kinda ironic that, while beeing a casual player myself I would kinda tend to keep a slight favor for the "hardcore" guys.
Makeing it even harder for myself but too casual is also not good....that is as long as matchmaking is so strange that you get so mixed groups of old veterans and people who play like they are brand new to the game.

Edited by Nesutizale, 09 February 2017 - 10:51 AM.

[Malrock]

OneTomboNation, on 09 February 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

All in all, the punishing aspects of the skill tree are punishing everyone Making people choose between what to prioritize in their builds is key, the grind is key also. As you basic/elite/master a mech in the past would chnage the build so as the grind went you got used to playing frugally with a mech, really playing your role. It makes a better pilot once you have the skills you want. Also, 91 skill points allows more than what is allowed by a mere 2/3 weapon modules and 1/2 mech modules. Have you played PTS or wtached videos of combat? The mechs are tankier, TTK is way up...its walking fighting brawling robots now. This is what I remember from previous mechwarriors. The result of the skill tree is the combat many have been waiting for.

I understand you are upset, but play the game and select 2 wepaons you wnats to really quirk out for each build and spend the rest on defense or whatever else. Itll be fine.

I get that the defense tree is making mechs tankier and you like the longer survivability of mechs and that this makes for more satisfying matches, but that doesn't make the tech tree better, or even valuable, they could give an across the board durability buff and get the same effect. All you did was make anyone who doesn't take the defense tree fall into a noob trap because now their mech is gimped compared to the rest of the field.

[Dogstar]

I'd be much happier if the xp and c-bill costs were tiered in some way similar to the suggestions so far. I think PGI have made a basic design flaw by putting skills in various 'buckets'.

A better system would be to have core skills leading to group skills, leading to individual skills - maybe two or three trees like that - firepower, mobility, defense

[Dogstar]

Just a note, with the number of mech packs and mastery packs I've bought I currently have almost a year of premium time and that's after using a year of premium time. I have another 2000+ hours banked as well. So my lack of cash (and xp) is not from playing without premium, it's from a lack of time to play enough matches to make serious moolah.

[Gentleman Reaper]

This is a F2P game though, so we should expect an element of grinding to it. You've even said it yourself, you've bought almost no mech modules because you don't play enough to afford them, so that more an issue with you than the game. I would argue it's even cheaper now because in comp play you would have 3 weapon modules with a mech module or two, that lends to something like 15 million c-bills to max out a mech, versus 9.1 million in the PTS.

[Malrock]

Gentleman Reaper, on 09 February 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

This is a F2P game though, so we should expect an element of grinding to it. You've even said it yourself, you've bought almost no mech modules because you don't play enough to afford them, so that more an issue with you than the game. I would argue it's even cheaper now because in comp play you would have 3 weapon modules with a mech module or two, that lends to something like 15 million c-bills to max out a mech, versus 9.1 million in the PTS.

Yeah but you are missing the fundamental point, just because he doesn't have tons of mech modules, doesn't mean he didn't grind out to master each chasis under the current implemented skill trees. He will loose the benefit of those investments when this patch goes live and not be able to re capture those same bonuses with out grinding both exp and c bills to do it effectively paying a c bill tax. His previous grind/ investment has been completely invalidated and taken from him and he has been told that to get the same stuff he used to have now he has to pay a huge c bill tax and grind more exp, than before. It is a crap situation. And the previous iteration of the game did not penalize you for not buying lots of mech modules because they could be moved. At most if you wanted them in all your faction play mechs you would get 4. The refund cost on 4 doesn't come close to covering the needs of people who have lots of mechs.

[Steve Pryde]

We were all happy about the "3 mechs to master" thing go away and now you must pay a shid ton c-bills for mastering them what is often more expensive than a new mech.

In that case the 3 mech rule is way better because u can switch builds without any costs (except the equipment itself).

[Malrock]

Steve Pryde, on 09 February 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

We were all happy about the "3 mechs to master" thing go away and now you must pay a shid ton c-bills for mastering them what is often more expensive than a new mech.

In that case the 3 mech rule is way better because u can switch builds without any costs (except the equipment itself).

This. I bought mech packs with the rule of three in mind, now my mech pack purchases are working against me because despite mastering them i am way behind in being able to re master them with the new system because i don't have enough xp or c bills to do so. Mech packs are bascially worthless now, just buy a single mech and mech bays.

[- Pestilence -]

StaggerCheck, on 09 February 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

I see the OPs point, but the 9.1 million price tag is peanuts compared to the old three Mech system. Take a look at the Viper for an example. I bought the Medusa on sale. Mounted six ER Small Lasers and four MG, with a few heat sinks and a couple of Omni-Pods to flesh it out. That is probably half a million C-Bills for the upgrades to a Mech Credit purchase. Radar Deprivation, ER Small Laser Range and Cool down modules, with a Cool shot 9 and UAV. I'm at 12.5 million and change to run the Medusa non-mastered.

Next I will have to buy two more Vipers to meet the old three Mech levelling requirement. I could pick up the VPR Prime for 9 542 887 and the VPR B for 9 611 887. That'd cost me 19 154 774 C-Bills. Hell, let's pick them up during the last sale, giving them a 35% discount. That makes it 12 450 604 C-Bills. Add that to the modules I can carry over from the Medusa, and we're looking at 24 950 774 C-Bills total to Master the Medusa.

Alright... so now I only have to worry about the Medusa and the 9.1 million skill tree investment, so that seems pretty reasonable to me by comparison.

Nesutizale, on 09 February 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

I agree that new player might have a problem. There was another thread there that suggested that the skills get more expansive the further down the tree they are.

That would make sense to me, as in the old system the first skills where also easier to get then the elite and master skills.

@StaggerCheck.
I always keep 1 mech out of 3 so when years ago i was buying the Cicada my first choice was the better armed version but in the end ive kept the ECM one. Is it really better now ?

@Nesutizale.
The sum of xp to unlock all basic skills is equal to the sum of elite so if what you are saying is true new system is not better.

Edited by Nexxio, 09 February 2017 - 11:34 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Malrock, on 09 February 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

This. I bought mech packs with the rule of three in mind, now my mech pack purchases are working against me because despite mastering them i am way behind in being able to re master them with the new system because i don't have enough xp or c bills to do so. Mech packs are bascially worthless now, just buy a single mech and mech bays.

XP shouldn't be an issue if you mastered them but yes I agree cbills is. I should be able to master 50% of my mechs . To do the other half I would need 1/2 billion cbills more. Haha