63 replies to this topic

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Arugela, on 10 February 2017 - 03:22 AM, said:

I think everyone is missing two things.

1. the system may have a new max in skills and layouts giving reason for the new higher cost per mech.
2. It is also the new way to get modules. (AKA the previous cbill sink)

Of course the old system didn't include cbills. Because the cbills were in the modules and it was seperate. Now it is not separate.. If you look at the costs between the new system it is cheaper and better. you get customization and focus. And you get cheaper modules. I bet you anything the low end choices could be used to get the same mech as now for either the same or much less.

Haven't been on the server to test it as I'm linux and the test server doesn't work for me. But these simple facts are obvious and seem to be missed by most people. BTW, I bet we can get more "modules" now also.

There may be a big change in tactics if everyone can more easily get things like seismic and deprivation and still pick more stuff. maybe more team coordination. Probably the reason all the missiles got those accuracy bonuses. They will need to be to do more in less time with the new stuff available.

And before anyone forgets. We are getting money back for our modules. Unless they have changed that. I believe full price for all of them. given the xp points are cheaper than full mod layouts. anyone who has bought mods is going to be dong well cbill wise as far as specing up initially.

You are 100% wrong about pretty much every point you are making... this a HUGE xp & cbill increase across the board. Even to the point of it being easy to get partial effects from Modules like Radar Derp & Seismic, those are WAY down the tree of one of the last trees you are going to sink xp & cbills in. Like Skill Point 85-91, whereas I could put 100% Radar Derp module into my shining mech I just bought 2 minutes beforehand. Massive Nerf in every conceivable way... I mean that literally, the Strawmen examples people have been making are utter horse$hit which is how bad the system is. The defenders of it have not been able to even theorycraft a single example of it making things better, just poorly thought out horse$hit.

[Kotzi]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 10 February 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

You are 100% wrong about pretty much every point you are making... this a HUGE xp & cbill increase across the board. Even to the point of it being easy to get partial effects from Modules like Radar Derp & Seismic, those are WAY down the tree of one of the last trees you are going to sink xp & cbills in. Like Skill Point 85-91, whereas I could put 100% Radar Derp module into my shining mech I just bought 2 minutes beforehand. Massive Nerf in every conceivable way... I mean that literally, the Strawmen examples people have been making are utter horse$hit which is how bad the system is. The defenders of it have not been able to even theorycraft a single example of it making things better, just poorly thought out horse$hit.

That was the question i wanted to ask. Thought after looking at the pics that you couldnt skip your way down to those modules. First go all the way left than right back to the other side to actually than be able to go to the Node you want. Patronizing at its best.

Edited by Kotzi, 10 February 2017 - 06:28 AM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Kotzi, on 10 February 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

That was the question i wanted to ask. Thought after looking at the pics that you couldnt skip your way down to those modules. First go all the way left than right back to the other side to actually than be able to go to the Node you want. Patronizing at its best.

You are not even going to get the full effects of Radar Derp or Seismic since it would require almost full filling the third or fourth most important Trees not even counting Weapons or Jumpjets trees... let alone the Auxiliary Tree that NO ONE is ever going to use.

[0bsidion]

TLBFestus, on 09 February 2017 - 10:54 PM, said:

Yup.

There.

I said it. I'm pleasantly surprised by the initial product PGI has developed.

Sure, it may cost a small fortune in c-Bills to tweak your mechs now, and you may have to travel through nodes that have no conceivable use to your particular mech or it's load out, not to mention the couple of million c-bills or (approx) 1000 MC to re-spec if you make a mistake or want to use a different load out, but if you really look at it, it's as comfortable as an old shoe.

We used to have to grind out and master 3 mechs, and PGI needed to (over)compensate for the loss of those other 2 mech XP/c-bill sinks. They did it and surely you can't keep a straight face if you try to say that you never saw that coming. Sure it was heavy handed but it was TOTALLY in keeping with the usual way things go around here, so I barely groaned because it was so familiar.

Sure you need to go through nodes like "arm pitch/yaw" that your mech might have ZERO use for, but COME ON PEOPLE......we had PINPOINT for how long and that was useless the whole time!
Another comfortable sigh of relief.......

Keep in mind, it's just the first PTS version. I'm sure that it will get extensively reviewed and modified with the same level of efficiency that we've all come to know and love.

Since it's a skill TREE now, I would like to propose that we stop with the term "PAUL ECONOMY" as it's been rendered obsolete. Instead we need a new phrase to reflect it's new nature, so I humbly propose a new name;

"The Paul Agronomy"

I think it's pretty telling that I have yet to see anyone calling for PGI to scrap the new skill tree entirely, unlike ED. Personally, I feel it could use some serious tweaking, but it has potential.

[xTrident]

Lupis Volk, on 10 February 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

So your going to ignore one half of the cost. XP is only half the cost.


Oooh boy i've triggered you hard, sorry for not following the sheeple bandwagon and hating PGI and change, forgive me on forum merc warrior of clan Smoke Kitteh. It appears that i'm not jaded enough for your calibre.

I'm fine with the XP. I expected to have to earn more XP per mech than before because we don't need three mechs now.

The 9.1 million cbills I need to "master" each mech I'm not okay with. The problem is we're all being switched over to this new system with minor compensation for the way we've been forced to play by PGI. Refund on the XP - that's great and all but earning 1,500 to unlock a skill tree point isn't that tough to get, even in one match. An extra 9.1 cbills though, that's sucks. I said in another thread it's going to cost me 309 million cbills to master what I currently have. I won't have near that much after module refunds. I'm assuming I'll be aorund 85 - 90 million cbills. Why is this a problem? Because nearly all of my mechs are mastered. I have three stand alone variants in which I'm accumulating XP on for this upcoming skill tree and didn't buy the other two variants because of such. I just recently bought three Locusts because they were so cheap and I am working on mastering them.

So here's the deal - I've already grinded and spent real money on this game in order to have majority of my mechs at their highest level. This new skill tree once everything is implemented is going to put me back at square one on two thirds of my mechs. We're being penalized for playing the game PGI's way and buying three variants of one mech in order to master them to now not getting any kind of refund back on it. It's cbills we're out and apparently, now, looks like we could have used.

Edited by xTrident, 10 February 2017 - 07:31 AM.

[Appogee]

Phoolan Devi, on 10 February 2017 - 05:02 AM, said:

...you do not take into consideration, that under the current system, the 42,000XP you take for freeing up piloting skills are GXP and not MechXP! Given, that the ratio at grinding between MechXP and GXP is roughly 1:10, your 42,000XP transfer to 420,000XP and thus, the difference in XP is about 950,000XP (old system) to 1,230,000XP (new system).

No. I avoided the whole GXP dual-earning complication because I was trying to keep it simple for the sake of my friend who was struggling with the numbers, and the impact is relatively immaterial on the conclusion.

But fine, let's decouple the XP vs GXP issue in my comparison of current system to new Skill Tree. Note that the rate at which GXP is earned is 5%, not the 10% you quoted.

Scenario:
We're still looking at a player who wants to Master a relatively modest hangar of 9 Mechs.

Under the Current System:
CBill cost to buy 9 Mechs: 99M (using 11M CBills - a Storm Crow - as an average Mech price).
CBill cost to buy, say, 4 of the most expensive reusable Mech Modules: 24M
CBill cost to buy, say, 8 reusable Weapon Modules: 24M
XP cost to Master 9 Mechs: 515,250 XP
GXP cost to unlock 12 Pilot Skills for the 12 Modules: 42,000 GXP (of which 25,765 is earned in parallel with Mech XP)
Additional XP required to earn the remaining required GXP: 81,175

Total CBills: 147M
Total XP: 596,425


Under the New System:
CBill cost to buy 9 Mechs: 99M (using 11M CBills as an average price).
XP cost to Master 9 Mechs: 1,167,075 XP (assuming you spend all your GXP on Mastering Mechs)
CBill cost to Master 9 Mechs: 81.9M

Total CBills: 180.9M
Total XP: 1,167,075 XP

Conclusion:
The new system requires 23% more CBills and 196% more Mech XP.

[Appogee]

0bsidion, on 10 February 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

I think it's pretty telling that I have yet to see anyone calling for PGI to scrap the new skill tree entirely, unlike ED. Personally, I feel it could use some serious tweaking, but it has potential.

I think it's obvious that most people either haven't tried it out in PTS, or haven't realised how much more of a grind it will be mathematically for any new Mechs they acquire.

Perhaps they think their huge stockpile of soon-to-be-refunded CBills and Historical XP will be enough. For some, who have high-usage Mechs with lots of unused Mech XP and a ton of Modules, it may well be.

But for new Mechs, or those who only have a few Modules. and who only take Mechs to the current Master level, they are in for a rude awakening if the new Skill Tree goes into production with its current values.

Even if fortune smiles and PGI reduce the proposed XP cost by third, to its previous "don't worry it's only a placeholder" value, it will still require double the Mech XP to Master a Mech. (And when you have Mastered it, it will end up with lower overall skill boosts than it has today.)

Edited by Appogee, 10 February 2017 - 07:53 AM.

[xTrident]

Appogee, on 10 February 2017 - 03:01 AM, said:

I see you're still not using math. Allow me to assist you.

Let's look at a player who wants to Master a relatively modest hangar of 9 Mastered Mechs. Let's compare the current system with the new system.

Under the Current System
CBill cost to buy 9 Mechs: 99M (using 11M CBills - a Storm Crow - as an average Mech price).
XP cost to Master 9 Mechs: 515,250 XP
CBill cost to buy, say, 4 of the most expensive reusable Mech Modules: 24M
CBill cost to buy, say, 8 reusable Weapon Modules: 24M
XP cost to unlock 12 Pilot Skills for the 12 Modules: 42,000 XP

Total CBills: 147M
Total XP: 557,250

Under the New System
CBill cost to buy 9 Mechs: 99M (using 11M CBills as an average price).
XP cost to Master 9 Mechs: 1,228,500 XP
CBill cost to Master 9 Mechs: 81.9M

Total CBills: 180.9M
Total XP: 1,228,500

Conclusion:
The new system requires 23% more CBills and 220% more XP.
And that's after a generous comparison.
In fact, the new system is even worse with the more Mechs you Master, or if you select less expensive Mechs, or if you don't spend money upgrading the other two variants you'll never use under your current "set of three" etc.

Finally:
Now that I've laid out the math with you, do you still think your opening comment - "Complains about cost, forgets that fact that it's cheaper than what an IS or even a Clan player has to do with the current system. At this point you can all stop with your thin veils" - was because I "hate change and PGI"...?

Or do you think perhaps I studied and calculated the impact of the new system, took the time to share it with fellow players, and also, got justifiably concerned that PGI had actually further increased what they told us at MechCon were "placeholder values"?

I'm not stating this to disagree with you because I'm not thrilled with the increased grind but the big difference in your comparisons is a player could have 9 different mechs completely rather than three different and 9 variants via the increased cost. Compare that to what it cost to master 9 completely different mechs in the current system...

Edited by xTrident, 10 February 2017 - 08:01 AM.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

There really are some cool things about this Skills Tree idea.

Customising "quirks" to how I like it? Priceless !
Instead of picking mechs just for their quirks, I can pick a mech and make it exactly how I want/need.

Getting access to the nice goodies which we could never before? Fantastic !
I can do more pinpoint damage with reduced LBX or SRM spread (don't blame me for picking it).

Being able to tackle the achillies heel in mechs which really needed a boost? Superb !
There were some clan mechs which felt they were made outta wood.

----

The bad points?

I can't be bothered to re-iterate them but they're splattered all over the forums and unfortunately for me, they outweigh the good which is a real shame. I just dont have time to do all the grinding needed to bring a mech up to speed. That process alone is going to be painful.

[C E Dwyer]

If the thing didn't encourage more boating, I'd be inclined to think of it as having potential to be good, and only needing certain costs to be adjusted, so it didn't suck for newbie players.

However it does, and until they correct that, then it will give less options and make the game far more linear and dull.

[Appogee]

xTrident, on 10 February 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

I'm not stating this to disagree with you because I'm not thrilled with the increased grind but the big difference in your comparisons is a player could have 9 different mechs completely rather than three different and 9 variants via the increased cost. Compare that to what it cost to master 9 completely different mechs...

Ah, I see your point. You're saying that, in order to have 9 unique chassis under the current system, you need to level 27 individual variants to Basic, and 3 variants of one chassis in each weight class to at least Elite.

That's true. But you'd end up with a glorious 27 Mechs and not just a paltry 9, so it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison Some might prefer the 9 different Mechs. Others might prefer the 27 Mechs, even though as many as two-thirds of them will be sub-optimal in a competitive sense.

Edited by Appogee, 10 February 2017 - 08:03 AM.

[TLBFestus]

DovisKhan, on 10 February 2017 - 01:55 AM, said:

Al in all - yes I'm also very pleased, it needs tweaks, maybe, but it's really fun as an addition.


However - Trial mechs should all receive max skill points, because otherwise a new player in a trial mech is hopelessly outmatched, much more so than before


For example a full skilled Orion has 190+ CT hp and with 4 maxed ASRM6 it can land them all on your CT, it's actually neat, a crappy mech like that gets to live again

Did you take time to consider your Trial Mech comment? People would just run Trial mechs all day.

Appogee, on 10 February 2017 - 03:01 AM, said:

I see you're still not using math. Allow me to assist you.

Let's look at a player who wants to Master a relatively modest hangar of 9 Mastered Mechs. Let's compare the current system with the new system.

Under the Current System
CBill cost to buy 9 Mechs: 99M (using 11M CBills - a Storm Crow - as an average Mech price).
XP cost to Master 9 Mechs: 515,250 XP
CBill cost to buy, say, 4 of the most expensive reusable Mech Modules: 24M
CBill cost to buy, say, 8 reusable Weapon Modules: 24M
XP cost to unlock 12 Pilot Skills for the 12 Modules: 42,000 XP

Total CBills: 147M
Total XP: 557,250

Under the New System
CBill cost to buy 9 Mechs: 99M (using 11M CBills as an average price).
XP cost to Master 9 Mechs: 1,228,500 XP
CBill cost to Master 9 Mechs: 81.9M

Total CBills: 180.9M
Total XP: 1,228,500

Conclusion:
The new system requires 23% more CBills and 220% more XP.
And that's after a generous comparison.
In fact, the new system is even worse with the more Mechs you Master, or if you select less expensive Mechs, or if you don't spend money upgrading the other two variants you'll never use under your current "set of three" etc.

Finally:
Now that I've laid out the math with you, do you still think your opening comment - "Complains about cost, forgets that fact that it's cheaper than what an IS or even a Clan player has to do with the current system. At this point you can all stop with your thin veils" - was because I "hate change and PGI"...?

Or do you think perhaps I studied and calculated the impact of the new system, took the time to share it with fellow players, and also, got justifiably concerned that PGI had actually further increased what they told us at MechCon were "placeholder values"?

You might think that this makes sense and is laid out well, but I promise you (and with subsequent reading down the thread I can see I was correct) that the person you are trying to convince will TRUMP your logic with "alternative facts".

In truth, we can do all the fancy math we want, but it's much more simple to realize that PGI had to find a way to replace the 3 mech rule with something at least as onerous to preserve the c-bill and XP sink. While the new system may increase your ability to specialize, it's also going to eat up your stash of c-bills and XP much faster than the old system.

In PGIs eyes that's a "very good thing". Then they came up with the idea of MC being used as an option for respecs. Technically NOT behind a paywall, but when you run out of XP during the initial rebuilding phase and still have mechs left to adjust, then the MC option will be staring you in the face and PGI is counting on people paying with MC to save time.

They better be right.

Then...I forgot to add, what about once you've spent all the time, c-bills/MC and XP to tweak your mech to perfection and along comes PGI with the NERF HAMMER? Now your mech doesn't work like it used to, through no fault of your own, and you have to respec it! Yup.....Now PGI can manipulate individual mechs AND practically force you to spend to fix it again.

The NERF HAMMER is now a money maker.

For myself, I'm so burnt out on repetitive game play after years that I can barely face the idea of working through the new skill tree for the mechs I feel deserve the effort. Add in that I don't want to make a mistake and spend even more to fix it, and that I will have to pay c-bills or MC to change my loadout effectively, and I'm just about ready to throw my hands up in the air and give up.

In the end I simply hope that they have enough "bank" now to get funding to finish the SP game and HBS comes out so I can walk away from this game forever.

Edited by TLBFestus, 10 February 2017 - 09:58 AM.

[xTrident]

Appogee, on 10 February 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

Ah, I see your point. You're saying that, in order to have 9 unique chassis under the current system, you need to level 27 individual variants to Basic, and 3 variants of one chassis in each weight class to at least Elite.

That's true. But you'd end up with a glorious 27 Mechs and not just a paltry 9, so it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison Some might prefer the 9 different Mechs. Others might prefer the 27 Mechs, even though as many as two-thirds of them will be sub-optimal in a competitive sense.

Well, yeah. And fair enough.

Personally I'd prefer 9 different mechs altogether than running the same basic chassis. But, this is about the only positive argument I could make on the current system and as you pointed out, it still costs more in both cbill and XP.

[xTrident]

TLBFestus, on 10 February 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

Did you take time to consider your Trial Mech comment? People would just run Trial mechs all day.




You might think that this makes sense and is laid out well, but I promise you (and with subsequent reading down the thread I can see I was correct) that the person you are trying to convince will TRUMP your logic with "alternative facts".

In truth, we can do all the fancy math we want, but it's much more simple to realize that PGI had to find a way to replace the 3 mech rule with something at least as onerous to preserve the c-bill and XP sink. While the new system may increase your ability to specialize, it's also going to eat up your stash of c-bills and XP much faster than the old system.

In PGIs eyes that's a "very good thing". Then they came up with the idea of MC being used as an option for respecs. Technically NOT behind a paywall, but when you run out of XP during the initial rebuilding phase and still have mechs left to adjust, then the MC option will be staring you in the face and PGI is counting on people paying with MC to save time.

They better be right.

Then...I forgot to add, what about once you've spent all the time, c-bills/MC and XP to tweak your mech to perfection and along comes PGI with the NERF HAMMER? Now your mech doesn't work like it used to, through no fault of your own, and you have to respec it! Yup.....Now PGI can manipulate individual mechs AND practically force you to spend to fix it again.

The NERF HAMMER is now a money maker.

For myself, I'm so burnt out on repetitive game play after years that I can barely face the idea of working through the new skill tree for the mechs I feel deserve the effort. Add in that I don't want to make a mistake and spend even more to fix it, and that I will have to pay c-bills or MC to change my loadout effectively, and I'm just about ready to throw my hands up in the air and give up.

In the end I simply hope that they have enough "bank" now to get funding to finish the SP game and HBS comes out so I can walk away from this game forever.

I think this is a pretty reasonable comment and holds a lot of truth as to what PGI is intending on doing. Because you're absolutely right, PGI is going to need to make up for the lost purchase spending of cbills somewhere, and naturally they're applying it to the new system.

I just have a real problem with all the grinding that I've done up to this point mastering nearly all my mechs are going to leave me with ~two thirds unmastered because I'll be short on cbills.... I've already done it once!

[Besh]

I fully xpect to get flamed to Death for this, but I have to say...

I like the SkillTree . It is good it is being implemented . Too many Ferenghi ( ohhhh the cost....ohh, the XP needed XD ), not enough Players here it seems to really discuss it . Most of you guys are mostly concerned about how it affects you personally ( and not even the impact(s) on Gameplay much, but the cost of VIRTUAL, inGame obtainable stuff like CBills and XP is what winds many of you up so hard - hilarious !) - and you make damn well sure you are only publishing the points where you think it affects you negatively .

I, for one, VERY MUCH like the IDEA that a new player can simply stick to that one Variant of a Chassis they get along with well, and like, and keep pouring development into it . And that their fav. 'Mech getting better and better does NOT block 3 'MechBays anymore....but only 1 .

I ALSO think it is really, really good that adding SPs costs Cbills and XP . And respeccing can be done with CBills, you dont necessarily have to spend MC . People whining about the Cbill cost of skilling, and respeccing 'Mechs, after people yelling at PGI for 5 years "Give us something to do with our worthless SpaceBucks!" - hilarious !

Does not seem too many consider it even makes SENSE : you pay money to kit out your 'Mech ( with Boni ), and you pay money again if you want to kit it out differently . CBill Money . Virtual, inGame obtainable Cash . But "OOOOOHHHH; THE COST NEEDS TO GO DOWN!!!" - hilarious !

AND ( and I do own over 80 'Mechs at this Moment ) I am REALLY looking forward to spec them all out XD .

Serious Guys, get a grip, and stop acting as if its the end of the World and all the children are going to die of starvation because SkillTree 1.0 costs too many CBills ! *SHEESH* 1st World Problems, I am glad I do not have the nerve XD...

Now, kill me, for all I care.

Edited by Besh, 10 February 2017 - 11:10 AM.

[xTrident]

Besh, on 10 February 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

I fully xpect to get flamed to Death for this, but I have to say...

I like the SkillTree . It is good it is being implemented . Too many Ferenghi ( ohhhh the cost....ohh, the XP needed XD ), not enough Players here it seems to really discuss it . Most of you guys are mostly concerned about how it affects you personally ( and not even the impact(s) on Gameplay much, but the cost of VIRTUAL, inGame obtainable stuff like CBills and XP is what winds many of you up so hard - hilarious !) - and you make damn well sure you are only publishing the points where you think it affects you negatively .

I, for one, VERY MUCH like the IDEA that a new player can simply stick to that one Variant of a Chassis they get along with well, and like, and keep pouring development into it . And that their fav. 'Mech getting better and better does NOT block 3 'MechBays anymore....but only 1 .

I ALSO think it is really, really good that adding SPs costs Cbills and XP . And respeccing can be done with CBills, you dont necessarily have to spend MC . People whining about the Cbill cost of skilling, and respeccing 'Mechs, after people yelling at PGI for 5 years "Give us something to do with our worthless SpaceBucks!" - hilarious !

Does not seem too many consider it even makes SENSE : you pay money to kit out your 'Mech ( with Boni ), and you pay money again if you want to kit it out differently . CBill Money . Virtual, inGame obtainable Cash . But "OOOOOHHHH; THE COST NEEDS TO GO DOWN!!!" - hilarious !

AND ( and I do own over 80 'Mechs at this Moment ) I am REALLY looking forward to spec them all out XD .

Serious Guys, get a grip, and stop acting as if its the end of the World and all the children are going to die of starvation because SkillTree 1.0 costs too many CBills ! *SHEESH* 1st World Problems, I am glad I do not have the nerve XD...

Now, kill me, for all I care.

The entire purpose of the PTS is for players to try it and the entire purpose of the PTS forum thread is for players to give their feedback. No one is talking like the world is coming to end, we're all simply giving our two cents on what we think is a problem.

I'm all for the content of this game being easier to access for new players, but in the process of doing such it shouldn't negatively affect long time players that have hundreds of thousands of hours into the game. And that's the problem with the cbills and XP part of the new skill tree. Both of those correlate to time and grind invested into the game. It's not that we're losing fake money, it's the time we've all got invested looks like we're going to be losing for nothing. That's the big problem. If cbills came any easier, or you know... we made more per match. It would become less of an issue. PGI set this game up as a grind game. In that you play to "advance or progress". That being the case just as play time on the game is done for enjoyment, it's done to advance in the game. So far this switch is looking to take away a lot of the progress I've made. But you're right, why should that bother me...?

I hope what little bit I've read about the effects these skill-tree nodes having on mechs and weaponry doesn't have as big of an impact as what it sounds. If that's the case new players are still going to be at a fairly large disadvantage once again anyway.

As far as real life problems go... Of course this is bottom on the totem pole. But who in here thinks MWO is that important or is comparing to such?

Edited by xTrident, 10 February 2017 - 11:39 AM.

[Besh]

xTrident, on 10 February 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

The entire purpose of the PTS is for players to try it and the entire purpose of the PTS forum thread is for players to give their feedback. No one is talking like the world is coming to end, we're all simply giving our two cents on what we think is a problem.

I'm all for the content of this game being easier to access for new players, but in the process of doing such it shouldn't negatively affect long time players that have hundreds of thousands of hours into the game. And that's the problem with the cbills and XP part of the new skill tree. Both of those correlate to time and grind invested into the game. It's not that we're losing fake money, it's the time we've all got invested looks like we're going to be losing for nothing. That's the big problem. If cbills came any easier, or you know... we made more per match. It would become less of an issue. PGI set this game up as a grind game. In that you play to "advance or progress". That being the case just as play time on the game is done for enjoyment, it's done to advance in the game. So far this switch is looking to take away a lot of the progress I've made. But you're right, why should that bother me...?

I hope what little bit I've read about the effects these skill-tree nodes having on mechs and weaponry doesn't have as big of an impact as what it sounds. If that's the case new players are still going to be at a fairly large disadvantage once again anyway.

As far as real life problems go... Of course this is bottom on the totem pole. But who in here thinks MWO is that important or is comparing to such?

You will get Gazillions of CBills as refunds for your Modules. IF you have been around to pour hundreds of thousands of hrs. into this Game, CBills are not an Issue for you, anyways .

You will ALSO get refunded ALL the XP you have poured into a given Variant . IF you have been around for long enough to pour hunreds of thousands of hrs. into the Game, it is my firm believe 'Mech XP also is of ZERO concern for you - at least regarding your favourite 'Mech(s)/Variants .

So your point(S) exactly are.... ?

On a sidenote: it's all nice and dandy to complain and say "I'm all for the content of this game being easier to access for new players, but in the process of doing such it shouldn't negatively affect long time players that have hundreds of thousands of hours into the game." But...do you have any Idea for that ?

[xTrident]

Besh, on 10 February 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

You will get Gazillions of CBills as refunds for your Modules. IF you have been around to pour hundreds of thousands of hrs. into this Game, CBills are not an Issue for you, anyways .

You will ALSO get refunded ALL the XP you have poured into a given Variant . IF you have been around for long enough to pour hunreds of thousands of hrs. into the Game, it is my firm believe 'Mech XP also is of ZERO concern for you - at least regarding your favourite 'Mech(s)/Variants .

So your point(S) exactly are.... ?

On a sidenote: it's all nice and dandy to complain and say "I'm all for the content of this game being easier to access for new players, but in the process of doing such it shouldn't negatively affect long time players that have hundreds of thousands of hours into the game." But...do you have any Idea for that ?

On Steam I have 625 hours invested into the game. I figure I have around a total of 700 hours invested in the game if I include before I had the Steam client. I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread or not but I stated how far short I'm going to be of mastering my current mechs due to cbill shortage and I'm going to be around 2/3's short. I've also stated I don't have a problem with the XP grind. XP is only used for the skill tree so accumulating that for one purpose isn't as big a deal as cbills since they're used to also purchase mechs.

So there's my point. I've put plenty of time into this game to currently have almost all of my mechs mastered. (The ones I don't are the ones I've recently purchased)

As for your final comment - simple, compensate current players with either cbills or free skill nodes to choose from at the very least. And this was just off the top of my head as an idea. PGI has record of all our stats and purchases, they could easily do something with it.

Here's what I said in another thread about refunds on my modules and what it's going to cost to "re-master" all my mechs and how far short I'm anticipating to be:

I currently have 34 mechs. It's going to cost me 309,400,000 cbills to "master" all of them, or unlock 91 skill tree nodes. I currently have ~35 million cbills banked and I'm expecting a max of 50 million back on refunded modules. That's no where near the 309 million cbills I need to master all my mechs.

I'm assuming I'll be in the neighborhood of 224 million cbills short.

Edited by xTrident, 10 February 2017 - 12:05 PM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

The Unstoppable Puggernaut, on 10 February 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

There really are some cool things about this Skills Tree idea.

Customising "quirks" to how I like it? Priceless !
Instead of picking mechs just for their quirks, I can pick a mech and make it exactly how I want/need.

Getting access to the nice goodies which we could never before? Fantastic !
I can do more pinpoint damage with reduced LBX or SRM spread (don't blame me for picking it).

Being able to tackle the achillies heel in mechs which really needed a boost? Superb !
There were some clan mechs which felt they were made outta wood.

----

The bad points?

I can't be bothered to re-iterate them but they're splattered all over the forums and unfortunately for me, they outweigh the good which is a real shame. I just dont have time to do all the grinding needed to bring a mech up to speed. That process alone is going to be painful.

THERE ARE NO "QUIRKS" REALLY... JUST SKILLS WE ALREADY HAD THAT ARE WORSE AND MORE EXPENSIVE!!!!!!!!!!

[Besh]

xTrident, on 10 February 2017 - 11:53 AM, said:

On Steam I have 625 hours invested into the game. I figure I have around a total of 700 hours invested in the game if I include before I had the Steam client. I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread or not but I stated how far short I'm going to be of mastering my current mechs due to cbill shortage and I'm going to be around 2/3's short. I've also stated I don't have a problem with the XP grind. XP is only used for the skill tree so accumulating that for one purpose isn't as big a deal as cbills since they're used to also purchase mechs.

So there's my point. I've put plenty of time into this game to currently have almost all of my mechs mastered. (The ones I don't are the ones I've recently purchased)

As for your final comment - simple, compensate current players with either cbills or free skill nodes to choose from at the very least. And this was just off the top of my head as an idea. PGI has record of all our stats and purchases, they could easily do something with it.

Here's what I said in another thread about refunds on my modules and what it's going to cost to "re-master" all my mechs and how far short I'm anticipating to be:

I currently have 34 mechs. It's going to cost me 309,400,000 cbills to "master" all of them, or unlock 91 skill tree nodes. I currently have ~35 million cbills banked and I'm expecting a max of 50 million back on refunded modules. That's no where near the 309 million cbills I need to master all my mechs.

I'm assuming I'll be in the neighborhood of 224 million cbills short.

Just for the record - I just checked, did not know the proper # out of my Head since I spent 120million CBills on purhcases during last 'Mech Sale : I own 102 'Mechs . I am owning those 'Mechs, and am playing this game, because I LIKE TO play the Game .

I know Cbills and XP will come naturally, by simply playing the Game .

I do not complain about any associated cost with SkillTree, neither Cbill nor XP cost .

So *hm* maybe ?

Edited by Besh, 10 February 2017 - 12:44 PM.