159 replies to this topic

[SmokedJag]

Probably Not, on 12 February 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

There is a difference between "bucking the meta" and simply having no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Exactly. The Supernova is as slow as a Dire Wolf, but a Dire Wolf has way more firepower versatility and sheer amount. The Supernova can boat cERLLs but since you can't fire 6 of them anyway, there's little difference between that and a Warhawk, which can either boat 5x cERLLs with a targeting computer or just fire cERPPC instead in the Clan assault long range energy boat category. Several Clan heavies can also build as cERLL boats while being far faster than the Supernova and/or also having jump jets and not taking up an Assault slot in a 12v12. If the Supernova is supposed to be passable, it needs to be better at what it does. A lot better.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

well, when one compares the dominance cycles of the Cataphract 3D, to the Timberwolf to whatever it is today (still KDK3? or has the GyrPop replaced it in CompyLand?)...I'd call 60-90 days a huge improvement, though I was mostly referring to the "Meta of the Month" phrase.

Well... the KDK-3 is still #1 (MAD-IIC is a great #2 alternative to the KDK-3), followed by the HBK-IIC-A for most medium options, and Night Gyr and Timberwolf sharing their #1 spots depending on preference. Did I forget to mention ACH still #1 Light (though Lolcust still a close #2)?

Yep, so different from the last 6 months right?

Edited by Deathlike, 12 February 2017 - 04:07 PM.

[Drunk Canuck]

RestosIII, on 12 February 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

Running 6 cERLLas on the SNV-1 won't be viable at all it looks like, so no. It's not enough.

Should be fine to be honest. 8 ER ML will be completely viable with a standard even.

[RestosIII]

Drunk Canuck, on 12 February 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

Should be fine to be honest. 8 ER ML will be completely viable with a standard even.

There's a big difference between 8 ERMLas and 6 ERLLas. I can run a 12 ERMLAs Nova and not do terrible. I don't think I can do that with a 6 ERLLas Supernova.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 12 February 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

Well... the KDK-3 is still #1 (MAD-IIC is a great #2 alternative to the KDK-3), followed by the HBK-IIC-A for most medium options, and Night Gyr and Timberwolf sharing their #1 spots depending on preference. Did I forget to mention ACH still #1 Light (though Lolcust still a close #2)?

Yep, so different from the last 6 months right?

Hey no night gyr or scorch up top 6 months ago.... Progress!

[Gas Guzzler]

Drunk Canuck, on 12 February 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

Should be fine to be honest. 8 ER ML will be completely viable with a standard even.

This post shatters my faith in the MWO community.

Just kidding, it was shattered a long time ago, but man, never heard someone defend an 8 ER ML assault as viable before.

[Andi Nagasia]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 February 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

Andi Nagasia is a meta player?

Im a Meta Player???

im just saying that i would have bought it if it had diffrent hard points,
as it is now, the MAD-IIC would likely be better then the SNV, which is all im saying,

[Bishop Steiner]

Probably Not, on 12 February 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

I mean, my god, even if you went with a STD engine, omitted Endo and FF (can you even DO that with Clan battlemechs?) and packed it to the GILLS with heatsinks you'd still have tonnage left over, wouldn't you?

Unless you use Losertech? All the single heatsinks....i claim them!

[FupDup]

Probably Not, on 12 February 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

I mean, my god, even if you went with a STD engine, omitted Endo and FF (can you even DO that with Clan battlemechs?) and packed it to the GILLS with heatsinks you'd still have tonnage left over, wouldn't you?

I'm trying to build it in Smurfys using a Highlander IIC as a baseline.

I've used 4 tons of Gauss Ammo to represent the 4 extra ERML (because HGN maxes out at just 4). I've got STD325, 3 JJ, Endo, 24 DHS, AP, and TC7. 2 tons and 0 slots left over. The Supernova itself would have 1 slot left because it doesn't have a fist on the left arm. Can't remove Endo because of weight.

I don't know how to calculate the heat efficiency on this thing. I'll use a Dire Whale for that in a few minutes.

EDIT: Heat efficiency is only 32%, aka 12 seconds to overheat. What a derpinator. I'll try SHS next.

EDIT2: 34 SHS and AP removed. XL engine. Heat efficiency only up to 34%, or 13 seconds to overheat.


It's hilarious how a fat assault mech literally packed to the gills with heatsinks still has only mediocre heat efficiency with medium class lasers.

Edited by FupDup, 12 February 2017 - 05:30 PM.

[DaZur]

LOL... If I had a nickel for every DOA prognostication over a new mech, particularly when that mechs statistics shade mediocre... I'd be able to afford more than one Starbuck coffee.

To be clear, I'm not saying any of you are wrong. That said, conversely... I see way too many mechs forecasted for the scrap heap before launch, effectively be proven otherwise.

[DaZur]

Probably Not, on 12 February 2017 - 06:24 PM, said:

On a tangentially related note, the Javelin 10N is going to be a disaster if they go through with the SRM4 nerf. Arms look terrible for shield duty, especially with that fat torso.

There's harsh reality in that no two mechs are created equal.

I've never been a proponent of quirk for equity mechanic... It's the equivalent of dropping a 720 horsepower bi-turbo V12 into a Yugo so it feels less inadequate next to a Lamborghini.

I understand and appreciate why it's done but it's done... There is no way to make an inferior mech viable... There is no logical way to sell an inferior mech that's steeped in Lore and nostalgia but to fudge numbers.

That said, it's nothing but smoke and mirrors... And I'm afraid the removal of quirks and the implementation of the new skill tree is only going to further expose this reality.

[FupDup]

DaZur, on 12 February 2017 - 06:39 PM, said:

There is no way to make an inferior mech viable...

Bruh, quirks can literally fix any mech if applied in large enough quantities. It's not a matter of whether something is possible via mechanics/coding, it's a matter of whether or not PGI would feel like doing it.

[The Lighthouse]

DaZur, on 12 February 2017 - 06:39 PM, said:

There's harsh reality in that no two mechs are created equal.

I've never been a proponent of quirk for equity mechanic... It's the equivalent of dropping a 720 horsepower bi-turbo V12 into a Yugo so it feels less inadequate next to a Lamborghini.

I understand and appreciate why it's done but it's done... There is no way to make an inferior mech viable... There is no logical way to sell an inferior mech that's steeped in Lore and nostalgia but to fudge numbers.

That said, it's nothing but smoke and mirrors... And I'm afraid the removal of quirks and the implementation of the new skill tree is only going to further expose this reality.

As FupDup said, it is absolutely possible. Give Vindicator something like 80% PPC velocity and 40% PPC Less Heat Generation, then it will be good. Not great as Clan mechs, but definitely usable and fills niche.

But then PGI said they are going away from such strong quirks because.... they don't like strong quirks. They literally have no clue about their own game.

[DaZur]

FupDup, on 12 February 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

Bruh, quirks can literally fix any mech if applied in large enough quantities. It's not a matter of whether something is possible via mechanics/coding, it's a matter of whether or not PGI would feel like doing it.

The Lighthouse, on 12 February 2017 - 06:59 PM, said:

As FupDup said, it is absolutely possible. Give Vindicator something like 80% PPC velocity and 40% PPC Less Heat Generation, then it will be good. Not great as Clan mechs, but definitely usable and fills niche.

But then PGI said they are going away from such strong quirks because.... they don't like strong quirks. They literally have no clue about their own game.

Clearly, you guys missed my simile.

I'm well aware PGI can quirk a **** into a Tiffany cufflink... That said, that doesn't necessarily make it "right".

Like I said, I understand why PGI had to quirk for equity across all mechs and chassis. The problem is a flat quirk implementation is a boondoggle... You can take identical mechs with the same quirks and move one weapon to a higher hardpoint and suddenly that mech is now superior to the other left unchanged.

The premise that flat applied quirks is the solution is a falacy.

[Ace Selin]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 February 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

I'll admit that I'm excited. I can't explain it, maybe its the aesthetics. Sure its mediocre, but at least I'll look really good while being mediocre, right?

Hehe, i dig the look of the Supernova, why i got the base pack when it came out.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

It is a regular battlemech. So it will automatically be better than gargoyle or executioner. It will not be amazing, but it won't be bad.

[Deathlike]

DaZur, on 12 February 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

LOL... If I had a nickel for every DOA prognostication over a new mech, particularly when that mechs statistics shade mediocre... I'd be able to afford more than one Starbuck coffee.

To be clear, I'm not saying any of you are wrong. That said, conversely... I see way too many mechs forecasted for the scrap heap before launch, effectively be proven otherwise.

Well, it's not a Mist Lynx.

[Deathlike]

Probably Not, on 12 February 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

Mist Lynx wasn't a TOTAL disaster.

From the Office of the President That Bears Tiny Hands said:

It was a total disaster. A HUGE disaster.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 February 2017 - 08:01 PM.

[FupDup]

Probably Not, on 12 February 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

Aw come on. It has ECM, jump jets and can top 110km/h. And is absolutely tiny.

The ECM on the MLX requires you to sacrifice half of your weapon hardpoints.

It's not worth it.

[Deathlike]

Probably Not, on 12 February 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

Aw come on. It has ECM, jump jets and can top 110km/h. And is absolutely tiny.

Mist Lynx Anonymous said:

Raise your hand if you've seen another Mist Lynx in a match... oh...