109 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

Greetings fellow Warriors!

I like to put AMS on my mechs a lot, I like that they counter LRMs and Streaks.

Now, what I have found in my 4 week journey from T5 to T1 is, the higher the tier, the less AMS.

Why is that so? I mean for FW I can understand it, but PUG solo queue, I personaly find AMS rather handy. What do I don't get? IS there something I don't understand why AMS is bad?

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: Sorry for offending some people with the title, I deleted "good" from it.

Edited by WolvesX, 15 February 2017 - 04:36 AM.

[Metus regem]

This is due in large part to the drop off in LRM useage you will find, as the pilots get better, and I don't mean via PSR, you will find LRMS are less effective on them.

[Lupis Volk]

Yeah LRMs drop off at the higher tiers, also it takes 1-1.5 tons of weight.

[xTrident]

Not going to claim I'm good or anything.

But I used to try and equip AMS when I was newer to the game. I don't ever even consider it now because I've discovered avoiding missiles, specifically LRMs is rather easy without the help of anything - like a module. Which brings me to what I tend to use to assist in avoiding LRMs - radar dep. As soon as you're out of the enemies sight, they can't target you (unless you're narc'd of course). I have lots and lots of missiles miss me because of this module alone.

The way I generally play MWO I'm always trying to stay out of the line of sight of the enemy... Not being in their sight means they can't get a target. I also try to use any cover I can, whether it be buildings, rocks or an overpass. Anything to get in the way of their missiles, and I always do this whether I've got incoming or not because you never know. I also have a number of mechs with ECM which helps.

The bottom line is unless the enemy has a scout and they're really doing a good job, or I've done a piss poor job myself, LRMs aren't much of a problem.

Edited by xTrident, 14 February 2017 - 11:35 AM.

[Metus regem]

Probably Not, on 14 February 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

Yeah, LRMs are not commonly used at higher tiers from what I gather, and AMS' effectiveness against SRMs/SSRMs is not great.

That's due to the health of each missile..

NARC has the most
SRM/SSRM's are next
LRM's are last..

This is compounded by the fact AMS is rather short ranged, that it has less time to engage NARC and SRM's.

[TercieI]

AMS is a system that does a poor job countering a weapon that is a minimal threat since there's cover. Engine, armor, guns, heat sinks are all better uses of tonnage.

[Kyrie]

Pretty much what others have said. As the general level of LRMs declines, there is really not much point to using AMS. Using AMS is bit of a prisoners-dilemma: if everyone agrees to use it, it is amazingly effective in supporting rushes; if you are one of the only people with it it is basically useless.

Playing as an individual implies that you can limit your exposure to LRMs pretty effectively... so in PUGs the skilled players use that tonnae for basically AnythingElse.

[Cato Phoenix]

AMS is situational.

A heat sink is always useful.

For the most part, its easier to catch cover and avoid the LRMS - which you would do regardless of AMS. So for the most part, AMS only helps if you are caught out in the open, otherwise it's just dumb firing into the building behind which you've taken cover.

[Gas Guzzler]

Back in the old light CW light rush days we would bring 12 FS9-S's with 2 AMS and 5 MPL on each. Actually made a noticeable difference against streak crows.

I heard bringing double AMS mediums was also useful in Scouting to help counter Clan streak boats.

But for LRMs... nah. If I get killed by LRMs its because I wrongfully assumed that there wasn't any and got myself away from hard cover in a slow assault, or **** happens on Polar sometimes, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep from those deaths, and tbh AMS probably wouldn't have helped that much anyway. Its always my own fault, having nothing to do with how good the LRM player is or LRMs being OP/good (they certainly aren't).

[Xmith]

Most probably use LRMs as a fire and forget weapon. When ever I use them, I try my best to use them as a LOS weapon. This is my way of making sure they hit target and not waste the tonnage.

[xTrident]

Probably Not, on 14 February 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

I will usually go ahead and put AMS + 1/2 ton to 1 ton of ammo on certain mechs just because there aren't quite enough free crits for another DHS, or I've already hit engine cap, or whatever really. But it's very, very optional, and even 3 AMS won't save you from lurmspam on Polar.

Lol... Those lrumspam's on Polar... That's about the only map where LRMs can be a very real problem. And if the other team isn't prepared/ready for it, it's over so quick it doesn't even matter. Chances are you won't go through that again right away anyway. But damn those matches can be frustrating.

[Metus regem]

Probably Not, on 14 February 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

I will usually go ahead and put AMS + 1/2 ton to 1 ton of ammo on certain mechs just because there aren't quite enough free crits for another DHS, or I've already hit engine cap, or whatever really. But it's very, very optional, and even 3 AMS won't save you from lurmspam on Polar.

Best way to avoid that is "See, but remain unseen"

[Acehilator]

Decreased use of LRMs in higher tiers? Seems you are playing a different game than I am.

And please continue to tell yourself that a single heatsink is better than AMS + 1/2t ammo.

I'll be sitting over here raking in the C-Bills with my LRM mechs

[Snazzy Dragon]

I take it in solo queue where I can but in group queue and Faction Warfare I should hope those players are bringing radar derp and know how to avoid LRM fire by then.

[Trollfeed]

AMS is only useful when you can take more than one, so take that ecm + 3AMS kit fox for a spin. There's surprising amount of lurms in all pug tiers nowadays and they can be pretty infernal if good players run them.

[Metus regem]

Snazzy Dragon, on 14 February 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

I take it in solo queue where I can but in group queue and Faction Warfare I should hope those players are bringing radar derp and know how to avoid LRM fire by then.

Depends on how many CPLT-A1(C) you see on your side.... I once did a drop in FW, where I was the only person not using A1 Champions with LRM's.... I had a bad, bad time that game... doubly so, since they didn't operate as a group either....

[xTrident]

Probably Not, on 14 February 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

Which is a testament to how bad that map is.



When the map vote screen comes up and I see Polar with 50% or more of the vote, I know it's going to be a terrible game.

Yup, agreed on all accounts. At this point I know if it's chosen it's because people are LRM boating. I'm truly seeing less and less people using long range weaponry the likes of guass or lasers and more missiles anymore. The worst part about Polar is the cover is fairly non-existent. Everything I mentioned in my first comment pretty much doesn't apply in Polar... Gosh, what a **** map.

[Pjwned]

It's not used much for 2 main reasons:

1) Players who are decent know that LRMs are not all that effective except against potatoes who stand out in the open.

On top of all the other inherent drawbacks of LRMs, they have to deal with:

-ECM being extremely unbalanced due to being a jesus box that hard counters potentially dozens of tons of weaponry

-Radar deprivation's effect is too powerful and needs to be toned down just like seismic sensors were quite a while ago

-LRM launchers, particularly bigger launchers, have too much spread on where the missiles land so even when the missiles do hit they're not very effective.

Now, if those issues were fixed, then LRMs would be a little more popular and thus AMS would be more popular too.

2) Players who are absolute scrub baddy whiner ECM crutchlord babies who somehow manage to get killed by LRMs anyways refuse to equip AMS, because they're terrible at the game and they prefer to whine about LRMs instead of not being a scrublord; this can be seen somewhat frequently when said scrublords make threads whining that they got killed by LRMs.

[Elkfire]

Polar is a great map because it has no real central structure/area for the potatoes to mindlessly swarm towards, which makes for varied engagements. There are plenty of trenches and hills to use as cover, so if you hate Polar because you're getting LRMed to death, well. As IT guys like to say, PEBCAK.

Edited by Elkfire, 14 February 2017 - 01:37 PM.

[Koruthaiolos]

At Tier 2 I see lots and lots of games where LRMs are brought in abundance... hopefully things change at Tier 1