150 replies to this topic

[CK16]

What would you guys think of a round table at some point with Russ, and him sitting down with some of us who are frequent forum posters? Not the trolls but the honest community contributers here?
Thoughts ect?

[Bishop Steiner]

Oh this will go over well.

You KNOW one has to be an UberComp UltraTryhard to have ANY understanding of the game, and thus anything useful to contribute.

Even if the game that 99% of the playerbase plays is NOTHING like the game the Comp Teams play against each other... and balance in tier 5 is totally different than in tier 1. Or that a goodly number of Comp players are not inherently more "knowledgeable" than anyone else, but simply have really good reflexes and follow the leader well, belong to very disciplined teams and know how to copypasta MetaMechs.com. Oh, and the genuine metric shitton of bad ideas posted by players with a "1" under their names. (Mind you, there are several metric shittons of bad ideas from players without that "1", but that's to be expected, since among other things..players with those other numbers outnumber the "1" on at least a 20 to 1 ratio, if not more)

But ya know...aside from that.

Metus regem, on 13 February 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

But I see it not going very well as PGI doesn't seem to want to listen except to a select few that may not have the best intereyst of MWO as their goal.

This. PGI has always had a bad habit of putting too much weight on the thoughts of a select group of players... many of whom are more concerned with the competitive play, than the lore of the IP. And on the other extreme, the forums have quite a few players who are far too entrenched in the "but in TT it's done THIS WAY!" mentality.

What is needed is for Russ to listen to a broader cross section of players, from all ends of the spectrum.

You absolutely NEED the input from Competitive Players, because if something is broke, they are guaranteed to be abusing it. You get less reliable info on what is actually bad though, as in general, if it's not the bleeding edge, it's cast aside period, which makes it a lot less clear just what is how bad, and why. Far too much of the "if it isn't Optimal, then it's not Viable" mindset. Also, sometimes, I believe tehy can forget that while they may be the elite, they represent a minuscule percentage of the playerbase.

At the other end...you have the Potatoes. Now the Comps say they have nothing to add, and you can't balance based on the BADs. And there is truth to this. And yet... you can't ignore the Bads, either... because 1) there are more Bads, than Goods, and 2) most New Players, start as Bads, and if the NPE is too bad, then the New Player Retention goes to crap, and the community and game, stagnate and die. For example... in top tiers.. LRMs are BAD. Thing is, for a lot of New Players... LRMs are OP. So no matter hoe inconsequential the Competitive Scene may find LRMs to be... if they are wrecking the NPE, those players are unlikely to stick around long enough to "GitGud".

Not necessarily related to being Good, Bad or Ugly... you have the battle of Lore vs Competitive Balance. You have a number of people who are so entrenched in Lore, they cannot think straight when it comes to balance. And you have the other side, where these people may care nothing at all for the "fluff", and all that mattes is the FPS aspect. With a Storied IP, like Battletech, you need to walk the line between the two extremes. You NEED to be as true to lore as is possible. But you also have to be able and willing to bend lore, where the realities of being translated to a FPS videogame, come to loggerheads with Lore.

So, in short, while I am against any sort of player councils, and have no clue how effective Roundtables are.. I do find it troubling that Russ has focused most of his attention toward in the end the Comp Perspective in these Roundtables in the past. What is needed, is for Russ to really get input from all walks of the MWO Community. Well, that, and actually being willing to LISTEN, and not get upset whenever we as a community do not agree with something that PGI thinks is simply the Cat's Meow.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 February 2017 - 07:55 AM.

[Tarogato]

That would be ... interesting... to say the least. Heck, since it will probably never happen with Russ, you could still just have it without PGI, and just make sure somebody is streaming it to Twitch so that if there's anything interesting that comes out of it, could link PGI to the part in the stream.

Edited by Tarogato, 13 February 2017 - 07:37 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tarogato, on 13 February 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

That would be ... interesting... to say the least.

Do tell. Why is that?

[Jables McBarty]

What's the post count to get in?

Shoot, I gotta start posting redundant answers in NPH to get my numbers up before the RT

[Jack Booted Thug]

Are elite groups of meta tryhard forum warriors now ruining the forums with all their elite 12 man posts? Should we split the forums into a group forum and pug forum?

Maybe a stock forum mode with limited memes and emojis for the lore buff?

[Metus regem]

Well for the Comp Try hard, Ultimaium or what ever he goes by now would have that covered... At the other end of the spectrum, we could have Bishop for more lore friendly input...

But I see it not going very well as PGI doesn't seem to want to listen except to a select few that may not have the best intereyst of MWO as their goal.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Tbh I'd like to see this happen, but seeing as how the majority of the ForumWarriors are long time veterans, I don't think they'd properly represent everyone in the community

[Novakaine]

The potato forum warrior well this is a new one.

[Jack Booted Thug]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 13 February 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

Tbh I'd like to see this happen, but seeing as how the majority of the ForumWarriors are long time veterans, I don't think they'd properly represent everyone in the community

So who would represent the "new to the forums" forum warriors?

Also, could we petition PGI to create a tutorial to improve the "new forum warrior experience"?

Probably need some tiers too, no way it's fair to have new tier 5 forum warriors posting alongside tier 1's. Can't be fun for either party.

Edited by Jack Booted Thug, 13 February 2017 - 06:32 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Meh.

As a terribad, but nonetheless a student of the game who forum warriors between projects or as a distraction, I would have nothing to add to such a round table that hasn't already been discussed and promptly ignored by PGI in countless town halls, Q&As and even the previous round tables.

Now if they want to have a round table of former whales and what it would take to get them spending again, I would be happy to participate in that, but being a forum warrior and/or being good or bad at this game, has no bearing on any opinions I might have in that regard.

[Bishop Steiner]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 13 February 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

Tbh I'd like to see this happen, but seeing as how the majority of the ForumWarriors are long time veterans, I don't think they'd properly represent everyone in the community

depends on the forum warrior. A lot are as detrimental to the community and game balance as some of the tryhards actually are. Agendas and Stupidity are not tied to reflexes and video game skill level, sadly.

[Tarogato]

Metus regem, on 13 February 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

Well for the Comp Try hard, Ultimaium or what ever he goes by now would have that covered...

Legitimate question... who's that?


The comp regulars that I know of on the forums are Mcgral [-SA-], Ghogiel [old CSJx?], Lukoi [-SA-], Quicksilver [SJR], Aresye [SJR], Terciel [RAWR], PhoenixFire [BSMC][MRBC ref], Deathlike [NS], Guzzler [NS], me [ISEN]...

[Bishop Steiner]

Jack Booted Thug, on 13 February 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

So who would represent the "new to the forums" forum warriors?

Also, could we petition PGI to create a tutorial to improve the "new forum warrior experience"?

Probably need some tiers too, no way it's fair to drop new tier 5 forum warriors in with tier 1's. Can't be fun for either party.

The NPE definitely needs to be addressed. The MW Academy is still too little. Especially with the upcoming new Skill Tree system, I see the NPE crashing and burning like the Hindenburg.

Also...it may seem silly... but if ya want your post taken seriously... don't be that guy who likes his own posts.

[Metus regem]

Tarogato, on 13 February 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

Legitimate question... who's that?


The comp regulars that I know of on the forums are Mcgral [-SA-], Ghogiel [old CSJx?], Lukoi [-SA-], Quicksilver [SJR], Aresye [SJR], Terciel [RAWR], PhoenixFire [BSMC][MRBC ref], Deathlike [NS], Guzzler [NS], me [ISEN]...

He used to go by Ultimaium X, he's very out spoken for ultra comp tryhards, often to the point that he will not accept other view points.

[Mechteric]

Probably Not, on 13 February 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

I wasn't even aware you could like your own posts.

That's pretty silly.

"How can you like others if you can't even like yourself?" - Another deep thought by Jack Handy

[Shiroi Tsuki]

CapperDeluxe, on 13 February 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

"How can you like others if you can't even like yourself?" - Another deep thought by Jack Handy

You can like yourself (as in having self-esteem) and not like your own posts. Like the old saying in Facebook "Liking your own posts is like sucking your own... uhh.... lower CT"

[Alistair Winter]

To be honest... there aren't a lot of forum warriors that I agree with on every major topic that is important to me. I agree with the hardcore competitive players on some issues, I agree with tabletop fanatics on some issues and I agree with the artboys on some artistic issues that seem irrelevant to other groups.

It's very much like politics. It's easy to agree on what the problem is, but things get tricky when people try to agree on how to fix the problem. For example, I saw one guy on the MWO forums argue that light mechs were extremely underpowered, which I agree with. His solution was to turn light mechs into NPC consumables that you could drop on the battlefield once per match. I mean... I don't even.

The discussion becomes extra hard because we have to factor in what PGI will realistically do in the real world. For example, we may agree that it would be better if PGI would have a PTS to try out 5 radically different ideas to replace ghost heat, and then we could get a better idea of which idea to build upon and improve with incremental balancing. But realists would argue that PGI is not likely to do any of that, so they will argue that we should stick with ghost heat, even if they hate it, just because they don't believe PGI is capable or willing to find a proper replacement.

Also, PGI doesn't really want to interact with the players unless someone puts a gun to their head, it feels like. Ask the devs, community managers, the roundtable roundbucket, the twitter polls... there are so many examples.

[cazidin]

I'd be OK with this but who would they choose and how? I'd be content to represent gameplay balance and game depth but I'm not sure if my reputation for joke threads would hinder my proposals. I've already volunteered, twice, to act as a PR guy for PGI but was politely declined.

[Navy Sixes]

Alistair Winter, on 13 February 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

It's easy to agree on what the problem is, but things get tricky when people try to agree on how to fix the problem.

That's the problem in a nutshell, isn't it? Even the OP's idea of a forum-warrior roundtable sounds okay until you ask, "Who's on it?" Then everything starts to break down, and we haven't even gotten to any of the actual ideas this roundtable might float, yet!

Bishop Steiner, on 13 February 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

snip

This is a pretty well-considered and IMO accurate assessment of the community, the feedback they offer, and the problems that stem from said feedback.