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Make Tutorial For, I Dunno, How To Play Multiplayer


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#1 Humpday

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:56 AM

I'm new to this and already I see so many posts about how n00bs dont' know how to play the different modes...well who's fault is that?

...if you're not taught in the academy how are you suppose to know. Not everyone(most people) wants to sit there and google crap about a videogame, its a tutorial, TUTOR. Simple things like what the heck are Alpha and Beta for in conquest. I got my butt chewed out by some cranky dude for blowing one up not really knowing at the time what it was for.

that is all.

#2 Tesunie

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:02 AM

View PostHumpday, on 16 February 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

I'm new to this and already I see so many posts about how n00bs dont' know how to play the different modes...well who's fault is that?

...if you're not taught in the academy how are you suppose to know. Not everyone(most people) wants to sit there and google crap about a videogame, its a tutorial, TUTOR. Simple things like what the heck are Alpha and Beta for in conquest. I got my butt chewed out by some cranky dude for blowing one up not really knowing at the time what it was for.

that is all.


Though I don't disagree with you, but at the same time each game mode does tell you what the objective is. The overall portion of the game modes should be easy to figure out from it's descriptions and objectives.

I'm not disagreeing that there could use to be a tutorial in the Academy for every game mode, explaining some of the finer points though. I'm just saying that it is at least mentioned what you need to do, and typically the how you need to do it isn't too hard to figure out. (But when combined with learning the other aspects of the game, it can be a lot to take in all at once.)

There are also, of course, these forums for any questions one might have. And, no one should be chewing another player out for an action, but they should be making suggestions and a "just so you know..." kind of statements. (Basically, it's how it's said, not what is being said. AKA: "LRMs have a minimum range of 180m and do nothing within that range." Rather than "Bring back up weapons Username!"


So, if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Many people here are willing to help at almost all times of the day (it seems).

#3 BigScwerl

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:43 AM

Yet another issue created by the matchmaking system and a nonexistent tutorial. I can see this from both perspectives. Imagine putting a pro ball player on the same team as someone that is learning how to swing a bat. It just creates frustration for everybody. These forums actually have a lot of good information and Guides for learning how to play, but sometimes the guides are hard to find.

Any new player should be required to go through the guide first - Lets face it, this is not counterstrike or some other fartbrained FPS button masher, This game has a very steep learning curve and is unforgiving to anyone that doesn't take the time to learn....part of me thinks that it a good thing, but I still see the need for helping new players get interested in the game without getting their azzez handed to them every match.

#4 BigScwerl

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:48 AM

In the meantime, check out these forum resources. and don't be afraid to ask questions at the start of a match.

Just type: I'm new, can someone explain what I should do in this game mode?

If all else fails, play the game by staying close to a player that looks like they have their schist together, custom paintjobs, titles, unit tags, etc. and observe and support their movements, shoot at their targets, and go where they go.... This won't work all the time though...

https://mwomercs.com...ew-player-help/

https://mwomercs.com...fo-tips-videos/

https://mwomercs.com...ics-101-comics/

#5 Princeps Damnatorum

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:56 PM

An addendum to this, to try and support how overwhelming is to MWO to a new player:

I played a lot for a few months quite a while back. I'm just now downloading about a million patches to get back into the swing of things now that my computer is up and running again (gotta have something to break up all that sim racing with, after a while it just feels like... work...). I'm already getting anxiety at how little I remember and how much I'm going to suck. How many heatsinks do I need? What was that Locust built for? What the heck are Alpha and Beta for?

To try and understand ALL of MWO in your first week or two of playing, is just... frustrating. Those FPS games that are just button mashing and 1v1 free-for-alls usually have a pretty easy interface. MWO certainly does not. Before you even spawn in-game, you already have to know more than most CoD players learn in a month. Then you get your butt kicked before you know what you're doing, and if you're smart, read through hours of material in an attempt to wrap your head around what just happened.

Having a tutorial system that includes a fair bit of on-the-go training and practice moving as a unit, using cover, as well as a lengthy tutorial on building mechs and the long list of considerations to take in when customizing... This is difficult for a developer to do, but the MWO community has had a great part in streamlining the learning process. That process is huge in comparison to other games. It's like... "You've used a fork and knife, right? Well, here's a Bell AH-1 Cobra. Use this in conjunction with a land attack force that will meet you at the destination in 1 hour and support the assault. We'll see you back here soon!"

It's a lot like ARK, actually. In order to excel and survive ARK, you have to do a lot of reading and googling and researching. And then a heaping pile of failing. But eventually you get the hang of it. That or you try and learn it on your own, end up breaking a keyboard over your knee, and take up crocheting.

-Travis

#6 Humpday

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 06:28 PM

View PostBigScwerl, on 16 February 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Yet another issue created by the matchmaking system and a nonexistent tutorial. I can see this from both perspectives. Imagine putting a pro ball player on the same team as someone that is learning how to swing a bat. It just creates frustration for everybody. These forums actually have a lot of good information and Guides for learning how to play, but sometimes the guides are hard to find.

Any new player should be required to go through the guide first - Lets face it, this is not counterstrike or some other fartbrained FPS button masher, This game has a very steep learning curve and is unforgiving to anyone that doesn't take the time to learn....part of me thinks that it a good thing, but I still see the need for helping new players get interested in the game without getting their azzez handed to them every match.


Well after that incident and the douche threatening me that he'd kill me if i re-queued again yeah, now i'm on the forums. I know how to play the games now, but how about things like the "scouting" mission, you drop into one of those and you're like...wtf is going on, then there are these blinky poll things what are those? Why are my lance scattered all over the place, i dunno wtf is happening!! Then all of a sudden some dude is calling and telling me to get to a dropship...wtf, where the hell is the freaking dropship!?....took surviving a match to actually realize what was happening.

Other than that, it was confusion.

TBH I think i'm still pissed at my own team mate killing me because i accidentally picked up the last intel and the dropship came....then threatening me not to drop again.

I after a week I now routinely post 2-3 kills and 300-900 damage in my light ach-prime(c).

Edited by Humpday, 16 February 2017 - 06:32 PM.


#7 Tesunie

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 06:48 PM

View PostHumpday, on 16 February 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:


Well after that incident and the douche threatening me that he'd kill me if i re-queued...


TBH I think i'm still pissed at my own team mate killing me because i accidentally picked up the last intel and the dropship came....then threatening me not to drop again.


To be honest, in either of those cases you can report said player via in game. Pull up the team menu (Tab if in match at any time, or even on the end of match score boards), and right(?) click their name. A drop down menu will appear. Select report with as good of a guess as to what is the best description for the offense, and leave it at that.

If they threaten to TK you, I believe that is abusive language (he's threatening you). If you ARE TKed by a teammate, and you believe it to be intentional (and not just an honest mistake), report them for that.

It is against this games Code of Conduct to threaten (besides maybe in a joking manner) or to grief (which is what Team Killing is) a fellow player.

#8 Seven Seven Seven

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 07:28 AM

The Academy tutorials pretty much only prepare players to Skirmish, and they don't even do that particularly well. Basic piloting and gunnery challenges, but nothing else.

I mean, it's better than nothing, and the "learn to torso twist" challenge is a good thing (if incredibly frustrating at times) but I think the Academy is wasted potential.

#9 SuperFunkTron

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 09:08 AM

View PostProbably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

I mean, it's better than nothing, and the "learn to torso twist" challenge is a good thing (if incredibly frustrating at times) but I think the Academy is wasteding its potential.


I fixed the end of the statement for you. I like to believe that there is still hope.

#10 Seven Seven Seven

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 09:14 AM

View PostSuperFunkTron, on 19 February 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:


I fixed the end of the statement for you. I like to believe that there is still hope.


After it took HOW long to even get the Academy in the first place, you're hoping that they'll actually make it live up to its potential? I have my optimistic moments, but this is kind of ridiculous.

#11 SuperFunkTron

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:26 AM

View PostProbably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:


After it took HOW long to even get the Academy in the first place, you're hoping that they'll actually make it live up to its potential? I have my optimistic moments, but this is kind of ridiculous.

For a small team that has so many issues to address, I'd rather they continue fleshing out FP before dedicating resources to improving the training area for those features. Is it disappointing that we have to wait for these things? Yes, but it is not breaking the game. I think they'll add it eventually, just not nearly as soon as we want.

#12 Seven Seven Seven

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:59 AM

View PostSuperFunkTron, on 19 February 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

For a small team that has so many issues to address, I'd rather they continue fleshing out FP before dedicating resources to improving the training area for those features. Is it disappointing that we have to wait for these things? Yes, but it is not breaking the game. I think they'll add it eventually, just not nearly as soon as we want.


They absolutely need to work on FP first, this is true. There are too many veteran players that PGI desperately needs to figure out how to effectively retain. That said, getting a decent tutorial going to ease new players in is a very close second priority. PGI keeping vets happy is treading water, bringing new players in on top of that is what they need to swim to shore.

#13 Tesunie

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:07 AM

View PostProbably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:


They absolutely need to work on FP first, this is true. There are too many veteran players that PGI desperately needs to figure out how to effectively retain. That said, getting a decent tutorial going to ease new players in is a very close second priority. PGI keeping vets happy is treading water, bringing new players in on top of that is what they need to swim to shore.


It is kinda a waste of time to create a tutorial for the content as it stands now, when that content may be in a state of flux and possibly change over the new few months.

Some game modes could easily be covered, such as Skirmish and Conquest as at least the minimum that wont change. (Or I don't see those two changing any time soon.)

This is what makes in game tutorials for a game such as this so hard to create. The data it relays may very well become outdated as soon as it's made or shortly there after. Would hate to have tutorials start to train outdated information, and/or PGI to create a tutorial with voice overs only to have to redo the whole thing...

#14 Seven Seven Seven

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:13 AM

View PostTesunie, on 19 February 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:


It is kinda a waste of time to create a tutorial for the content as it stands now, when that content may be in a state of flux and possibly change over the new few months.

Some game modes could easily be covered, such as Skirmish and Conquest as at least the minimum that wont change. (Or I don't see those two changing any time soon.)

This is what makes in game tutorials for a game such as this so hard to create. The data it relays may very well become outdated as soon as it's made or shortly there after. Would hate to have tutorials start to train outdated information, and/or PGI to create a tutorial with voice overs only to have to redo the whole thing...


I'm actually not sure how it could change so significantly that some basic tutorials about basic game mode concepts would be rendered completely moot, but I suppose it's always a possibility/risk.

#15 Tesunie

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:25 AM

View PostProbably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:


I'm actually not sure how it could change so significantly that some basic tutorials about basic game mode concepts would be rendered completely moot, but I suppose it's always a possibility/risk.


They've been talking about changing Assault mode for some time now. Just in the time it's been a game mode, it's had no turrets, then turrets, then back to no turrets. For all we know, Domination may end up getting the gens changed, so it will always add 15 seconds no matter how much time remains, or it may always stay as the time can never exceed 60 seconds. Etc.

They have to solidify the game modes and the game as a whole, before they can make a tutorial for it. However, I do agree that they should be able to include some basics that are unlikely to change. An example would be how to capture a point, be it Assault or Conquest. You have to stand within the box. How to deny a point, by also standing inside the box or shooting and hitting an enemy in said box... etc. Things that aren't likely to change should probably be covered in a tutorial.

Any amount of information would be helpful. But then again, I don't like seeing wasted time and work polishing a tutorial, only for it to become out of date and incorrect shortly after being finished.

#16 SuperFunkTron

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:30 AM

I had an idea for an "extended field training" phase for new players before they could jump into FP. It's not even close to a tutorial, but it would at least force new players to build a mech from each weight class as well as complete a number of in game tasks (protected light, scouting, lance formation, etc). It's the closest thing I see to practical, low investment start to training new players and making a bar for FP.

#17 Seven Seven Seven

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:17 PM

I would like to see some basic tutorials on how to use ECM to its fullest extent (know when to switch to Counter and when to switch to Disrupt - leaving it on Disrupt can actually be counterproductive to being sneaky, because an enemy with any brains at all is going to get very curious about their surroundings if they get the Low Signal warning/icon). I think some new players assume that ECM just makes them invisible or something.

Edited by Probably Not, 19 February 2017 - 12:17 PM.


#18 Jables McBarty

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:38 PM

View PostTesunie, on 19 February 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:


It is kinda a waste of time to create a tutorial for the content as it stands now, when that content may be in a state of flux and possibly change over the new few months.

Some game modes could easily be covered, such as Skirmish and Conquest as at least the minimum that wont change. (Or I don't see those two changing any time soon.)

This is what makes in game tutorials for a game such as this so hard to create. The data it relays may very well become outdated as soon as it's made or shortly there after. Would hate to have tutorials start to train outdated information, and/or PGI to create a tutorial with voice overs only to have to redo the whole thing...

View PostProbably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:


I'm actually not sure how it could change so significantly that some basic tutorials about basic game mode concepts would be rendered completely moot, but I suppose it's always a possibility/risk.


Things change, but there are some basics you could do for FP:
1. How to build and select a dropdeck (I'd love to see a MechLab tutorial in general).
2. High-level intro to Invasion/Siege. Doesn't have to be a full map, but if it is go with Emerald Taiga. Blow up gens to open doors, destroy two turrets, then go hit an Ogen to open Omega, then hit omega. Give all the objectives 20 HP so you can do it very easily.
3. High-level intro to Scouting. Do it on the same map as #2. So you walk over a beacon for "Invasion" and another for "Scouting." Go collect 3 pieces of intel. Stand in Dropzone for 10 seconds.

Maybe add a gauntlet to the tutorial where the player has to charge through a set of turrets and die. Then he respawns and has to select a certain 'mech.




View PostProbably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

I would like to see some basic tutorials on how to use ECM to its fullest extent (know when to switch to Counter and when to switch to Disrupt - leaving it on Disrupt can actually be counterproductive to being sneaky, because an enemy with any brains at all is going to get very curious about their surroundings if they get the Low Signal warning/icon). I think some new players assume that ECM just makes them invisible or something.



Yeah that's pretty advanced stuff. I spend like 5-10 minutes explaining the interactions of ECM and BAP and UAVs and Tag and Narc to friends when they start. Would def help.

#19 Tesunie

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:45 PM

View PostJables McBarty, on 24 February 2017 - 12:38 PM, said:

2. High-level intro to Invasion/Siege. Doesn't have to be a full map, but if it is go with Emerald Taiga. Blow up gens to open doors, destroy two turrets, then go hit an Ogen to open Omega, then hit omega. Give all the objectives 20 HP so you can do it very easily.

Maybe add a gauntlet to the tutorial where the player has to charge through a set of turrets and die. Then he respawns and has to select a certain 'mech.


Agreed on some of this. Things unlikely to change should be covered in some manner.

If this was done, I'd want to make sure it was informed that those objectives are "almost taken already" or some other means to let people know that the objectives in that tutorial are "not at full health". I'd hate to also see new players get frustrated because it's taking much longer than they thought/knew it should be to take down the gens and Omega...

I could also agree with a tut on how to manage and use a drop deck. I would imagine that mech selection after one has died should be rather straight forwards and intuitive process. However, knowing some people... Meh. Might as well have it covered as well I guess.

#20 Rhodance

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 02:12 PM

I am not sure how well it would fit into the academy - but video tutorials are not an overly expensive thing to make. Add some context relevant help buttons (like that "what does this do" thing that pops up when you hit escape) that launches a 30-60 video when in the menus.

Even just a in mech lab button that say MISSION OBJECTIVES that opens a page with some clicky buttons for each type would be good. Sometimes just knowing what each one is and say, a 10 item list of helpful hints would make a large impact.





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