35 replies to this topic

[Humpday]

I'm new to this and already I see so many posts about how n00bs dont' know how to play the different modes...well who's fault is that?

...if you're not taught in the academy how are you suppose to know. Not everyone(most people) wants to sit there and google crap about a videogame, its a tutorial, TUTOR. Simple things like what the heck are Alpha and Beta for in conquest. I got my butt chewed out by some cranky dude for blowing one up not really knowing at the time what it was for.

that is all.

[Tesunie]

Humpday, on 16 February 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

I'm new to this and already I see so many posts about how n00bs dont' know how to play the different modes...well who's fault is that?

...if you're not taught in the academy how are you suppose to know. Not everyone(most people) wants to sit there and google crap about a videogame, its a tutorial, TUTOR. Simple things like what the heck are Alpha and Beta for in conquest. I got my butt chewed out by some cranky dude for blowing one up not really knowing at the time what it was for.

that is all.

Though I don't disagree with you, but at the same time each game mode does tell you what the objective is. The overall portion of the game modes should be easy to figure out from it's descriptions and objectives.

I'm not disagreeing that there could use to be a tutorial in the Academy for every game mode, explaining some of the finer points though. I'm just saying that it is at least mentioned what you need to do, and typically the how you need to do it isn't too hard to figure out. (But when combined with learning the other aspects of the game, it can be a lot to take in all at once.)

There are also, of course, these forums for any questions one might have. And, no one should be chewing another player out for an action, but they should be making suggestions and a "just so you know..." kind of statements. (Basically, it's how it's said, not what is being said. AKA: "LRMs have a minimum range of 180m and do nothing within that range." Rather than "Bring back up weapons Username!"


So, if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Many people here are willing to help at almost all times of the day (it seems).

[BigScwerl]

Yet another issue created by the matchmaking system and a nonexistent tutorial. I can see this from both perspectives. Imagine putting a pro ball player on the same team as someone that is learning how to swing a bat. It just creates frustration for everybody. These forums actually have a lot of good information and Guides for learning how to play, but sometimes the guides are hard to find.

Any new player should be required to go through the guide first - Lets face it, this is not counterstrike or some other fartbrained FPS button masher, This game has a very steep learning curve and is unforgiving to anyone that doesn't take the time to learn....part of me thinks that it a good thing, but I still see the need for helping new players get interested in the game without getting their azzez handed to them every match.

[BigScwerl]

In the meantime, check out these forum resources. and don't be afraid to ask questions at the start of a match.

Just type: I'm new, can someone explain what I should do in this game mode?

If all else fails, play the game by staying close to a player that looks like they have their schist together, custom paintjobs, titles, unit tags, etc. and observe and support their movements, shoot at their targets, and go where they go.... This won't work all the time though...

https://mwomercs.com...ew-player-help/

https://mwomercs.com...fo-tips-videos/

https://mwomercs.com...ics-101-comics/

[TimeBomb572]

An addendum to this, to try and support how overwhelming is to MWO to a new player:

I played a lot for a few months quite a while back. I'm just now downloading about a million patches to get back into the swing of things now that my computer is up and running again (gotta have something to break up all that sim racing with, after a while it just feels like... work...). I'm already getting anxiety at how little I remember and how much I'm going to suck. How many heatsinks do I need? What was that Locust built for? What the heck are Alpha and Beta for?

To try and understand ALL of MWO in your first week or two of playing, is just... frustrating. Those FPS games that are just button mashing and 1v1 free-for-alls usually have a pretty easy interface. MWO certainly does not. Before you even spawn in-game, you already have to know more than most CoD players learn in a month. Then you get your butt kicked before you know what you're doing, and if you're smart, read through hours of material in an attempt to wrap your head around what just happened.

Having a tutorial system that includes a fair bit of on-the-go training and practice moving as a unit, using cover, as well as a lengthy tutorial on building mechs and the long list of considerations to take in when customizing... This is difficult for a developer to do, but the MWO community has had a great part in streamlining the learning process. That process is huge in comparison to other games. It's like... "You've used a fork and knife, right? Well, here's a Bell AH-1 Cobra. Use this in conjunction with a land attack force that will meet you at the destination in 1 hour and support the assault. We'll see you back here soon!"

It's a lot like ARK, actually. In order to excel and survive ARK, you have to do a lot of reading and googling and researching. And then a heaping pile of failing. But eventually you get the hang of it. That or you try and learn it on your own, end up breaking a keyboard over your knee, and take up crocheting.

-Travis

[Humpday]

BigScwerl, on 16 February 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Yet another issue created by the matchmaking system and a nonexistent tutorial. I can see this from both perspectives. Imagine putting a pro ball player on the same team as someone that is learning how to swing a bat. It just creates frustration for everybody. These forums actually have a lot of good information and Guides for learning how to play, but sometimes the guides are hard to find.

Any new player should be required to go through the guide first - Lets face it, this is not counterstrike or some other fartbrained FPS button masher, This game has a very steep learning curve and is unforgiving to anyone that doesn't take the time to learn....part of me thinks that it a good thing, but I still see the need for helping new players get interested in the game without getting their azzez handed to them every match.

Well after that incident and the douche threatening me that he'd kill me if i re-queued again yeah, now i'm on the forums. I know how to play the games now, but how about things like the "scouting" mission, you drop into one of those and you're like...wtf is going on, then there are these blinky poll things what are those? Why are my lance scattered all over the place, i dunno wtf is happening!! Then all of a sudden some dude is calling and telling me to get to a dropship...wtf, where the hell is the freaking dropship!?....took surviving a match to actually realize what was happening.

Other than that, it was confusion.

TBH I think i'm still pissed at my own team mate killing me because i accidentally picked up the last intel and the dropship came....then threatening me not to drop again.

I after a week I now routinely post 2-3 kills and 300-900 damage in my light ach-prime(c).

Edited by Humpday, 16 February 2017 - 06:32 PM.

[Tesunie]

Humpday, on 16 February 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

Well after that incident and the douche threatening me that he'd kill me if i re-queued...


TBH I think i'm still pissed at my own team mate killing me because i accidentally picked up the last intel and the dropship came....then threatening me not to drop again.

To be honest, in either of those cases you can report said player via in game. Pull up the team menu (Tab if in match at any time, or even on the end of match score boards), and right(?) click their name. A drop down menu will appear. Select report with as good of a guess as to what is the best description for the offense, and leave it at that.

If they threaten to TK you, I believe that is abusive language (he's threatening you). If you ARE TKed by a teammate, and you believe it to be intentional (and not just an honest mistake), report them for that.

It is against this games Code of Conduct to threaten (besides maybe in a joking manner) or to grief (which is what Team Killing is) a fellow player.

[SuperFunkTron]

Probably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

I mean, it's better than nothing, and the "learn to torso twist" challenge is a good thing (if incredibly frustrating at times) but I think the Academy is wasteding its potential.

I fixed the end of the statement for you. I like to believe that there is still hope.

[SuperFunkTron]

Probably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

After it took HOW long to even get the Academy in the first place, you're hoping that they'll actually make it live up to its potential? I have my optimistic moments, but this is kind of ridiculous.

For a small team that has so many issues to address, I'd rather they continue fleshing out FP before dedicating resources to improving the training area for those features. Is it disappointing that we have to wait for these things? Yes, but it is not breaking the game. I think they'll add it eventually, just not nearly as soon as we want.

[Tesunie]

Probably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

They absolutely need to work on FP first, this is true. There are too many veteran players that PGI desperately needs to figure out how to effectively retain. That said, getting a decent tutorial going to ease new players in is a very close second priority. PGI keeping vets happy is treading water, bringing new players in on top of that is what they need to swim to shore.

It is kinda a waste of time to create a tutorial for the content as it stands now, when that content may be in a state of flux and possibly change over the new few months.

Some game modes could easily be covered, such as Skirmish and Conquest as at least the minimum that wont change. (Or I don't see those two changing any time soon.)

This is what makes in game tutorials for a game such as this so hard to create. The data it relays may very well become outdated as soon as it's made or shortly there after. Would hate to have tutorials start to train outdated information, and/or PGI to create a tutorial with voice overs only to have to redo the whole thing...

[Tesunie]

Probably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

I'm actually not sure how it could change so significantly that some basic tutorials about basic game mode concepts would be rendered completely moot, but I suppose it's always a possibility/risk.

They've been talking about changing Assault mode for some time now. Just in the time it's been a game mode, it's had no turrets, then turrets, then back to no turrets. For all we know, Domination may end up getting the gens changed, so it will always add 15 seconds no matter how much time remains, or it may always stay as the time can never exceed 60 seconds. Etc.

They have to solidify the game modes and the game as a whole, before they can make a tutorial for it. However, I do agree that they should be able to include some basics that are unlikely to change. An example would be how to capture a point, be it Assault or Conquest. You have to stand within the box. How to deny a point, by also standing inside the box or shooting and hitting an enemy in said box... etc. Things that aren't likely to change should probably be covered in a tutorial.

Any amount of information would be helpful. But then again, I don't like seeing wasted time and work polishing a tutorial, only for it to become out of date and incorrect shortly after being finished.

[SuperFunkTron]

I had an idea for an "extended field training" phase for new players before they could jump into FP. It's not even close to a tutorial, but it would at least force new players to build a mech from each weight class as well as complete a number of in game tasks (protected light, scouting, lance formation, etc). It's the closest thing I see to practical, low investment start to training new players and making a bar for FP.

[Jables McBarty]

Tesunie, on 19 February 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

It is kinda a waste of time to create a tutorial for the content as it stands now, when that content may be in a state of flux and possibly change over the new few months.

Some game modes could easily be covered, such as Skirmish and Conquest as at least the minimum that wont change. (Or I don't see those two changing any time soon.)

This is what makes in game tutorials for a game such as this so hard to create. The data it relays may very well become outdated as soon as it's made or shortly there after. Would hate to have tutorials start to train outdated information, and/or PGI to create a tutorial with voice overs only to have to redo the whole thing...

Probably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

I'm actually not sure how it could change so significantly that some basic tutorials about basic game mode concepts would be rendered completely moot, but I suppose it's always a possibility/risk.

Things change, but there are some basics you could do for FP:
1. How to build and select a dropdeck (I'd love to see a MechLab tutorial in general).
2. High-level intro to Invasion/Siege. Doesn't have to be a full map, but if it is go with Emerald Taiga. Blow up gens to open doors, destroy two turrets, then go hit an Ogen to open Omega, then hit omega. Give all the objectives 20 HP so you can do it very easily.
3. High-level intro to Scouting. Do it on the same map as #2. So you walk over a beacon for "Invasion" and another for "Scouting." Go collect 3 pieces of intel. Stand in Dropzone for 10 seconds.

Maybe add a gauntlet to the tutorial where the player has to charge through a set of turrets and die. Then he respawns and has to select a certain 'mech.

Probably Not, on 19 February 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

I would like to see some basic tutorials on how to use ECM to its fullest extent (know when to switch to Counter and when to switch to Disrupt - leaving it on Disrupt can actually be counterproductive to being sneaky, because an enemy with any brains at all is going to get very curious about their surroundings if they get the Low Signal warning/icon). I think some new players assume that ECM just makes them invisible or something.

Yeah that's pretty advanced stuff. I spend like 5-10 minutes explaining the interactions of ECM and BAP and UAVs and Tag and Narc to friends when they start. Would def help.

[Tesunie]

Jables McBarty, on 24 February 2017 - 12:38 PM, said:

2. High-level intro to Invasion/Siege. Doesn't have to be a full map, but if it is go with Emerald Taiga. Blow up gens to open doors, destroy two turrets, then go hit an Ogen to open Omega, then hit omega. Give all the objectives 20 HP so you can do it very easily.

Maybe add a gauntlet to the tutorial where the player has to charge through a set of turrets and die. Then he respawns and has to select a certain 'mech.

Agreed on some of this. Things unlikely to change should be covered in some manner.

If this was done, I'd want to make sure it was informed that those objectives are "almost taken already" or some other means to let people know that the objectives in that tutorial are "not at full health". I'd hate to also see new players get frustrated because it's taking much longer than they thought/knew it should be to take down the gens and Omega...

I could also agree with a tut on how to manage and use a drop deck. I would imagine that mech selection after one has died should be rather straight forwards and intuitive process. However, knowing some people... Meh. Might as well have it covered as well I guess.

[Rhodance]

I am not sure how well it would fit into the academy - but video tutorials are not an overly expensive thing to make. Add some context relevant help buttons (like that "what does this do" thing that pops up when you hit escape) that launches a 30-60 video when in the menus.

Even just a in mech lab button that say MISSION OBJECTIVES that opens a page with some clicky buttons for each type would be good. Sometimes just knowing what each one is and say, a 10 item list of helpful hints would make a large impact.

[Commander A9]

We need this.

Although it probably can't be integrated into the academy, it COULD be hosted on one of the Invasion maps like Boreal or Emerald Taiga.

Drop the cadet in the base, have Captain Adams point out all the critical structures, have Captain Adams show cadets how to attack and destroy turrets AND generators AND the gun, and how to engage targets coming through gates.

Really simple.

[Dave Forsey]

Lots of good ideas here, however the issue has never been about good ideas - it's about time, cost and priorities.

Adding a multi-player tutorial for any gamemode is roughly equivalent (and I may be stretching things a bit here to make a point) to building an entire mobile game app - and there are other things the game needs more urgently (and please don't start discussing that here! Thank you!) It's a huge amount of work for, depending on the actual issue, for an uncertain benefit to the population as a whole.

My own "Good Idea" ™ (which is hardly original) would have a help button on every screen that linked to a list of short video explanations. (Click the button to highlight everything on the screen with help - right click for a list of tutorials)

Videos are cheap and easy to make (and we could leverage the community to help fill any gaps) and easy to change and improve.

[Elizander]

Dave Forsey, on 27 February 2017 - 09:24 AM, said:

Lots of good ideas here, however the issue has never been about good ideas - it's about time, cost and priorities. Adding a multi-player tutorial for any gamemode is roughly equivalent (and I may be stretching things a bit here to make a point) to building an entire mobile game app - and there are other things the game needs more urgently (and please don't start discussing that here! Thank you!) It's a huge amount of work for, depending on the actual issue, for an uncertain benefit to the population as a whole. My own "Good Idea" ™ (which is hardly original) would have a help button on every screen that linked to a list of short video explanations. (Click the button to highlight everything on the screen with help - right click for a list of tutorials) Videos are cheap and easy to make (and we could leverage the community to help fill any gaps) and easy to change and improve.

I am hoping more along the lines of the AI somehow making progress to emulate basic combat on most maps and having new players fight their cadet matches in a 12-man newbie/low tier team versus bots like how they did it in Paladins. Would be okay if the AI would be used for other things in the game later down the line (like taking over disconnected mechs).

[Exilyth]

Making the different gamemodes available for each map in testing grounds would help people to learn the positions of objectives in each mode/map combination and would allow them to interact with the objectives without all the warfare going on around them.


Ideally, there would be another academy map, where captain Adams moves to different locations and tells you about the different objectives in turn.

"This here is a resource point, you will need to capture them in conquest operations. Now go capture it by standing near it." - after capturing, you'd get a few sentences about how light mechs are good for capturing while heavier mechs are better for defending.

"Here we have a field base. Assault operations require you to capture the enemy field base while protecting your own. Now go capture it by standing near it." - upon completion, you get a bit about sticking together.

"Sometimes intelligence identifies key personel. In escort operations, you are required to kill an enemy VIP or protect our VIP. Now go kill that 'mech!" - the player is required to kill the vip mech who walks a circular path nearby. After killing the VIP, you'd get a reminder on locking targets for teammates.

"Incursion operations require you to destroy the enemy base while protecting your base. Fuel cells scattered around the terrain will allow you to power auxilliary buildings which provide usefull abilities like radar or jamming. Now grab a fuel cell and power our radar." - there is a fuel cell nearby and a lone radar tower. After grabbing the fuel cell and powering the radar, the player would then be instructed to go and destroy the enemy base on the other side of a terrain feature.



An ingame encyclopedia, where you can click on different topics and then get a short text (and maybe a rotateable 3d model) would also be helpfull, e.g. you'd be able to click on the "incursion" topic and get a short description (copy & paste of loading screen + some fluff). Objects like "fuel cell" would be links to the encyclopedia page, showing a 3D model of the fuel cell and a short description like "Fuel cells are used in the incursion game mode. They can be picked up and delivered to auxilliary buildings like the air control tower, radar tower, jamming tower" where each underlined word would be a link to another page.

Edited by Exilyth, 30 April 2017 - 07:07 AM.

[testhero]

Perhaps a Wiki would help

Then the players could edit the entries and update as changes occur.

Edited by testhero, 01 May 2017 - 05:34 AM.