92 replies to this topic

[Ken Harkin]

I just don't like clan mechs but I acknowledge they are usually superior. Having an XL engine which doesn't explode is a BIG hurdle to overcome for an IS player.

That said...

Marauder 3R with 2LBX10 and 4ML shreds
Marauder BH with 3LPL and 4 ML punches holes in things fast

I am really falling in love with two of my Bushwackers
P2 with 2 LPL, 2 MPL and 2 MG. It always performs.
I also love to throw 2 AC10s in the torso and either a MPL or 2ML in the CT.

[Jon Gotham]

Duke Nedo, on 17 February 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

Sorry for the whine thread, just a bit tired.

There is actually one IS mech that I feel does stand up pretty well to the best clan counter-part, that's the Oxide. And there are a few LPL or SRM mechs that are OK on the brawly maps, but that's a big gamble... 50% of the time they'll suck as well so.

PGI, just fix balance already. It's OK if clans aren't superior. It'll be fine. This game was much more fun a year ago imo.

The game was better pre clans, simply because there was no constant pathetic "clanz op" threads.

[Aiden Skye]

OP get lost.

[Ultimax]

Lightfoot, on 17 February 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Marauder, Warhammer, Locust, Quickdraw (don't laugh), Crab, Blackjack. Mauler MX-90, with a mix of AC2 and AC5 and a range advantage the MX90 will easily core a KDK-3 first.

Unfortunately MWO doesn't count accuracy very highly, it counts raw damage. IS tech is more accurate, Clan tech does more damage.

Again - it's not that some of those mechs aren't good, it's that the best clan mechs are objectively better.


And your assessment on "damage" is nonsense. Winning is what counts, and you win by destroying mechs fast.

The best clan mechs do exactly that, and the best builds right now are Gauss + CERPPCs.

[Jackal Noble]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 February 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

He's just being capricious. He said himself that he sometimes decides to be bitey and sometimes serious. Don't get strung up over it.

Genuinely made smile.

[TheArisen]

Well, check out this thread.
https://mwomercs.com...-now-with-poll/

Maybe there's a mech or two you'll want to support.

[Jackal Noble]

Clan mechs have the broader realm, Inner Sphere have a number of solid...islands.
Those islands being, the Locust, Cicada, Griffin, Centurion,Jager, Archer, Grashopper, Warhammer, Battlemaster, closely followed by the Banshee, King Crab.

Clan side - Artic Cheetah, Jenner 2C, Hunch2C, Stormcrow, Ebon Jag, Hellbringer, Timberwolf, Warhawk, Marauder2C, Kodiak.

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 17 February 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

Clan mechs have the broader realm, Inner Sphere have a number of solid...islands.
Those islands being, the Locust, Cicada, Griffin, Centurion,Jager, Archer, Grashopper, Warhammer, Battlemaster, closely followed by the Banshee, King Crab.

Wait, wat? Archer? Srsly?

Jackal, pls...

[Jackal Noble]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 February 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

How are they cancer? They are just solid mechs.

Yes Guzzler, I'm well aware of your fondness of those two mechs, and they are solid and great where they are, just expressing my severe disdain for getting caught in the alpha of one

Yeonne Greene, on 17 February 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

Wait, wat? Archer? Srsly?

Jackal, pls...

Ok ok, that one is my qp guilty pleasure as I run the Tempest to pretty good effect IN QUICKPLAY..... fine.... sans the Archer.

[Y E O N N E]

Probably Not, on 17 February 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

That and the Cicada made me raise my eyebrows. Cicada's not terrible (at least the 3M, 2A and the jumpy version aren't), but the Viper is absolutely better.

Viper is better up close. I'd much rather have a Cicada when playing the range game, though.

Also, and this is funny to me, the CDA-3F can pop-tart as well as a Shadow Cat. That is to say, it's pretty darn hot but it's good enough for pub queues and the speed with which you can blast out PPC rounds is hilarious.

[Jackal Noble]

Probably Not, on 17 February 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

That and the Cicada made me raise my eyebrows. Cicada's not terrible (at least the 3M, 2A and the jumpy version aren't), but the Viper is absolutely better.

A Cicada can out tank a Viper all day long, but in terms of battlefield value they are pretty closely matched. I prefer the 3M and the 3C with the 50% velocity buff on ppcs.
Also the Crab seems solid as hell, but don't own any (only ran trial with LPLs), with absolutely amazing hitboxes.

[ice trey]

Duke Nedo, on 17 February 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

I played KDK-3 and NGRs a lot lately, now I wanted some variation with an IS mech...

Tried like 10 different ones now, they all suck. Like 60-70% of the performance perhaps. Sucks.

Bored. Depressed. Sad.

You're thinking about it the wrong way.
You got used to playing the OP stuff.
It's not that everything else is 60-70% worse, it's that the the Kodiak and Night Gyr are 40-70% OP.
They need to dial those builds back to meet the median, but the minute they do, expect crocodile tears from people who paid money. "It's not P2W but by god, if something I bought doesn't win every time in every situation, I'm never supporting the game again"

[MacClearly]

Black Widow is going to be as close as you will get. Personally have fun with it and do well.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Duke Nedo, on 17 February 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

I played KDK-3 and NGRs a lot lately, now I wanted some variation with an IS mech...

Tried like 10 different ones now, they all suck. Like 60-70% of the performance perhaps. Sucks.

Bored. Depressed. Sad.

I'm pretty much going thru my IS mechs so playing meta stuff can be soooo boring from time to time. Here's my recommendations.

- Battlemaster 2C - Either 3ML+3LPL or 5LPL is good choice. Tanky, high hardpoints make it an excellent hillhumper and push mech.

- Mauler MX90 - 5 AC/5 is pretty solid choice. 4 uAC/5s is nice too, but suffers a bit from the recent uac nerf.

- Banshee 3M - Still pretty good with wubs. Hardpoints FTW.

- Cataphract Ilya Muromets - I don't really understand why you don't see this mech anymore. It's pretty strong with the quirks giving you fast uAC/5 projectile with around 800 meter range. It has some problems, yes, like low slung arms but positioning is everything. My build choice is 3 uAC/5 + 3 ML, XL300 and 9 tons of ammo.

- Grasshopper 5P - Nice torso hardpoints for 3LPL/xML vomit and 5 ER Larges. Pretty huge, but still solid mech.

- Warhammer 6D and 6R - Spreads dmg like a boss and very strong chassis still.

- Griffin 2N - One of the best brawlers still with SRM6+A, ECM helps in yolo queue.

- Hunchback 4P - Excellent peek 'n poke mech both the 2LPL/5ML version and traditional Swayback. Corners are your best friend.

- Shadowhawk 2K and 2D2 - 2K with 3 ER Large or 3 Large or 3LPL works nicely cus of the high mounted hardpoint. 2D2 is a very strong brawler with AC/10 (or LBX/10) and 4 SRM4s.

- Spider 5K - LPL and 4 MGs is pretty much the build you run with this. Optionally you can use ER Large instead and gain some speed. Harrasser and a finisher.

- Locust 3M and 1E (Maybe Pirates Bane) - So small 90% of players can't hit it so it's pretty good in solo queue even if it is a one shot.

Of course these are just my opinions and experiences may vary

[jjm1]

Built a x4 A/SRM-6 + x4 MPL KGC, and was in a prime position to use its short range ambush weapons when a KDK-3 walked around the corner.

It just walked through my CT before I could put out a third alpha and went on to do another 600 dmg.

PGI will probably nerf summoners again before they realise whats going on in their game.

[The Errant]

For mechs, pretty much what ugrakarma said. Battlemaster 2C, Warhammer 6D/6R, Grasshopper 5H/5P, Griffin 2N are what I see performing most consistently. Common traits: fast, boatable high-mounted torso hardpoints, tanky (structure quirks and good shield arms). Then you have the not-quite-as-good-but-still-viable tier. Black Knights, Marauders, Thunderbolts, Jagermechs, Quickdraws, Riflemen, pretty much all the rest of the 50-55 ton IS mids (Shadow Hawks, Centurions, Crabs), Blackjacks.

LPLs trade reliably up to 500m. 3x LPL you see on a lot of more dps-oriented builds, including a lot of mediums and 60-65 tonners. 3x LPL/3x-5x ML are good on the 70-tonners and up, ML duration/cooldown synergizes well with LPL and gives that close-range punch for brawling. LL boats if you want a bit more range, range-quirked+moduled ERLL if you want to try long-range trading with clan PPC/Gauss. AC5/UAC5 for midrange dakka, LB10X/SRM/MPL for brawling. IS in general tends to be tankier and run cooler which makes brawling a good choice except for the rare occasions you run into clan brawlers who will still likely out-DPS you with their SRM/SSRM/SPL boats. Alternatively IS laser vomit (LPL/ML) > clan laser vomit up to 300m. Shorter burn times, shorter cooldowns and less heat. Use that advantage to twist away soon as you let that alpha off so you don't get gibbed in a side torso (cause 9 times out of 10 you'll be running XL if you want to compete).

Lights? Eh, lights...Panther 10K, Locust 1E/1V/3M/PB, Spider 5K, Oxide (Jenner), Wolfhounds.

On the KDK and NTG...you can't dial the KDK back, its shoulder mounts are too good when combined with clantech weapon slot usage and weight. That and it's just a 100-ton clan mech with customizability approaching an IS mech, which tends to be one of the balancing factors between IS and clan: clan restriction vs IS customizability. You could lock the KDK's engine at something like DWF speed but that's completely inconsistent with their system for clan battlemechs, not lore-appropriate, etc etc, and oh how they would cry. Same with the NTG, you could take away its jumpjets so it couldn't poptart anymore, but system/lore/blahblah and oh how they would cry.

Seems lately like a lot of mechs are P2W when they first come out and the nerf bat descends when they come available for cbills.

[Duke Nedo]

ugrakarma, on 17 February 2017 - 07:44 PM, said:

I'm pretty much going thru my IS mechs so playing meta stuff can be soooo boring from time to time. Here's my recommendations.

- Battlemaster 2C - Either 3ML+3LPL or 5LPL is good choice. Tanky, high hardpoints make it an excellent hillhumper and push mech.

- Mauler MX90 - 5 AC/5 is pretty solid choice. 4 uAC/5s is nice too, but suffers a bit from the recent uac nerf.

- Banshee 3M - Still pretty good with wubs. Hardpoints FTW.

- Cataphract Ilya Muromets - I don't really understand why you don't see this mech anymore. It's pretty strong with the quirks giving you fast uAC/5 projectile with around 800 meter range. It has some problems, yes, like low slung arms but positioning is everything. My build choice is 3 uAC/5 + 3 ML, XL300 and 9 tons of ammo.

- Grasshopper 5P - Nice torso hardpoints for 3LPL/xML vomit and 5 ER Larges. Pretty huge, but still solid mech.

- Warhammer 6D and 6R - Spreads dmg like a boss and very strong chassis still.

- Griffin 2N - One of the best brawlers still with SRM6+A, ECM helps in yolo queue.

- Hunchback 4P - Excellent peek 'n poke mech both the 2LPL/5ML version and traditional Swayback. Corners are your best friend.

- Shadowhawk 2K and 2D2 - 2K with 3 ER Large or 3 Large or 3LPL works nicely cus of the high mounted hardpoint. 2D2 is a very strong brawler with AC/10 (or LBX/10) and 4 SRM4s.

- Spider 5K - LPL and 4 MGs is pretty much the build you run with this. Optionally you can use ER Large instead and gain some speed. Harrasser and a finisher.

- Locust 3M and 1E (Maybe Pirates Bane) - So small 90% of players can't hit it so it's pretty good in solo queue even if it is a one shot.

Of course these are just my opinions and experiences may vary

Thanks to you and others that made serious replies. I had expected much more acid during the night, it is a whine thread after all.

Let me list some of the things I tried:

WHM-6R: This was my dearest mech until lately. I usually ran it with dual gauss+4 ML and it was performing really really well. That build was killed by the ST structure nerfs, you now nearly almost instapop on gauss explosion, you used to survive one quite comfortably. I found the 2x UAC5+2x PPC build too hot already before UACs got extra heat some time ago, now it's definitely too hot. I also tried a few drops in 4x PPC to make use of the quirks but it also feels meh. For the WHM-BW I tried the 2x UAC5, 2x AC5 but it's also a bit too slow with that build, and too squishy for dakka against PPFLD. NGR owns it big time.

WHM-6D, GHR-5P with either laser vomit or 4x LPL works OK at medium range, but the last years nerfs are really felt. At best near NGRs and TBRs at medium range, but both the clan mechs owns it on half of the maps. That goes for all LPL builds, though LPLs are admittedly a good weapon.

BLR-2C is a very solid mech with both good shielding arms and structure quirks, but it sufffers from the LPL-problem above. Run mine with 5x LPL and have had many good games in it, but on some maps you're crippled while the NGR/KDK/MAD-IIc counterpart is not. It also needs more exposure time compared to PPFLD so it is at a disadvantage against good players. Not a bad mech to be in at medium range though.

CTF-3D got an upswing after the last armor buff it got, and it's not too bad now with gauss+2x shoulder PPC and JJ. It's more agile than the NGR, but the NGR has more firepower and better placed hard points. The 2x PPC+gauss TBR just beats it in all departments.

TDR-9S was tried with gauss+2x ERPPC, also OKish, but squishy, and the gauss mount is unfavorable for height and convergence.

TOPDOG with 3x LPL, 3x MPL also fine at close range but sucks at 50% of the maps, and is large and squishy comparably.

Oxide, like I mentioned above still feels fine. No chance against good PPFLD players, but a JNR-IIc wouldn't have done better so... At the moment I feel this is the only IS mech I have that really owns up to the clan counter-part.

The HBK-4P I honestly forgot about, but it does feel on par at close range (I run 7x ML on mine), but same here, only on close range while the HBK-IIc-A performs at all ranges.

Maulers, the dakka mauler is much too slow unless you play a turret with team coordination imo. When I play Maulers I usually take the 1P with dual gauss+dual PPC and it works, but compared to the KDK-3 it's much slower, dies on ST and deals less damage... so while an OK mech it is still inferior to the competition.

BNC-3M, aye, the wubshee is lovely, but again it has short range (I use 3x LPL+4x MPL on mine so extra short range compared to the LPL build). At short range I'd prefer it over the KDK-3 with these lovely shielding arms, but the KDK-3 works on all maps and all situations. Over all the KDK-3 is a much more reliable mech.

SHD-2H: had some fun in this one with 3x AC2+SRMS, but it's hardly meta...

[The Errant]

If you're looking for IS mechs as flat-out good as the top-tier clan mechs, you're not going to find any. It's why you basically never see IS mechs in competitive play. Clans have the range to generalize, IS has to specialize. In QP with mixed teams this can be tough on IS mechs depending on the lineup of each team (a specialist mech in a team of generalists may have trouble getting into or staying in a situation that favors its specialty), but in FP the IS units and TS mixed groups give it at least a college try for synergizing decks so they can all execute a chosen tactic together.

[Duke Nedo]

The Errant, on 17 February 2017 - 11:13 PM, said:

If you're looking for IS mechs as flat-out good as the top-tier clan mechs, you're not going to find any. It's why you basically never see IS mechs in competitive play. Clans have the range to generalize, IS has to specialize. In QP with mixed teams this can be tough on IS mechs depending on the lineup of each team (a specialist mech in a team of generalists may have trouble getting into or staying in a situation that favors its specialty), but in FP the IS units and TS mixed groups give it at least a college try for synergizing decks so they can all execute a chosen tactic together.

Yeah, I know, it's just that the gap is larger than it has been for like... 1.5 years or so?

[Appogee]

From a performance perspective, no IS Mech is on a par with the Night Gyr.

So noone can help you there other than PGI. (And what did they do...? They nerfed the main competitor the Warhammer, and they're about to further nerf IS Mechs with the new skill tree further reducing IS quirks and enabling Clan Mechs to be buffed further.)

In the absence of competitive performance, you may want to go in the direction of fun.

As you said, Oxide is fun. Other fun IS Mechs are:

• Locust PB or 3E with SPLs.
  
• SRM Commando with its insane refire rate (about to be nerfed in the new Skill Tree)
  
• Centurion AL or AH, because it's old school and yet still strangely tanky and competitive.
  
• Griffin 2N or 1N because it jumps and splats like crazy.

Unfortunately, none of these Mechs will help you win against metawhoring teams in the Group Queue. If you want to win in the Group Queue you use OP Mechs like Night Gyrs (Timbies, Kodiaks, ACHs etc).


Maybe we should all just go 100% Clan and stop even trying to make IS work until someone at PGI plays their own game and realises the imbalances that we see every day.

Edited by Appogee, 18 February 2017 - 02:19 AM.