26 replies to this topic

[JUDGE DEagle]

Hi all

after running into a streamer i happen to know to be Tier 1 i wondered about the Quick-Play MMR System in this game (myself just getting from Tier 5 to 4 after having started around christmas).

My question about this was answered in game with "there is no MMR system, everyone gets thrown in the same pond".. and the players were a wild mix of tier 1 to tier 5.

Now that would explain two things:

1.) why my games have been anything from frustrating (a single enemy light tearing apart half my team) to decent
2.) why half of my friends already quit the game in the first few weeks.

IF its true that your throwing new Tier5 players with fresh mechs against experienced Tier1 with mastered and moduled mechs this has to be the most stupid decision i have seen from a company for quite some time. You are literally scaring away your resupply of fresh players.

As i can see from some forum posts there was apparently ONCE a MMR system in place... obviously it no longer is.
Well, im kind of speechless,.... and already sorry i spend money on a game that obviously is deliberately beeing killed by its producer....

Anyone got a good explanation why this is the case?

Regards
Deagle

[MrMadguy]

I guess, it's dead loop for PGI. They mix players with different skills due to not having enough players and they don't have enough players, cuz they mix players with different skills.

I guess, at some point in the past, when after some problems with queue times this times became instant - MM was completely disabled. Simple thing. Game becomes worse and worse with time. Only may be 1 match of 20 - is match, where I'm matched with/against players with same skill or at least lower one. Here are my stats.


According to PGI everything below W/L = 1 and Avg MS = 200..250 - should cause PSR rating drop. I should have dropped to Tier 4 long time ago. But I'm still at around ~60% Tier 3 and not moving anywhere.

Conclusion: PSR doesn't even work - all matchmaking is completely random.

Edited by MrMadguy, 18 February 2017 - 07:34 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

JUDGE DEagle, on 18 February 2017 - 06:55 AM, said:

Hi all

after running into a streamer i happen to know to be Tier 1 i wondered about the Quick-Play MMR System in this game (myself just getting from Tier 5 to 4 after having started around christmas).

My question about this was answered in game with "there is no MMR system, everyone gets thrown in the same pond".. and the players were a wild mix of tier 1 to tier 5.

Now that would explain two things:

1.) why my games have been anything from frustrating (a single enemy light tearing apart half my team) to decent
2.) why half of my friends already quit the game in the first few weeks.

IF its true that your throwing new Tier5 players with fresh mechs against experienced Tier1 with mastered and moduled mechs this has to be the most stupid decision i have seen from a company for quite some time. You are literally scaring away your resupply of fresh players.

As i can see from some forum posts there was apparently ONCE a MMR system in place... obviously it no longer is.
Well, im kind of speechless,.... and already sorry i spend money on a game that obviously is deliberately beeing killed by its producer....

Anyone got a good explanation why this is the case?

Regards
Deagle

You are right. The Tiers are all being mixed together. Tier 5s (at least) should never be mixed with Tier 1( or even Tier 2) and should have their own stand alone bracket even if it means slightly longer queue times so that brand new players are not driven away because of being matched with upper Tier players with Mastered Mechs. From what I have seen, there is not a great deal of difference between most Tier 4- Tier 1 players on average so they can be intermingled (and already are).

[Appogee]

10 losses from 12 matches today.

Every team has been two-thirds potatoes that cant do 200 damage before they die.

I can't carry them, even when I go full meta. And trying to level non-meta Mechs is pure frustration, creeping along at 300XP a match.

The game is basically unplayable for me as a Tier 1 player during Euro daytime/ Oceanic evening.
I should just uninstall. PGI clearly don't give a sh1t, if they ever did.

Edited by Appogee, 18 February 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Since we have not had clear settings from PGI (ie the Seeded Player then range), you being Tier 4, in the Solo QP you can be matched with Tier 2, then with a Tier 1 if the MM hits 4.5m mark. That mark is when the MM started for that game, not for you.

The other item to be considered is the available population for the time of day as well as what servers the players have selected.

On the other side of the coin is how PSR works. The setup pushes most people to Tier 1. Those that are still tier 4 after a long time either do not play ENOUGH, and/or their builds are not close to being effective. And with the previous items many are also playing on an actual potato of a system.

[WolvesX]

Actually I know that I have seen you in a few games with my Pirates Bane. IF you are T5 this should NOT happen.

[JUDGE DEagle]

WolvesX, on 18 February 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

Actually I know that I have seen you in a few games with my Pirates Bane. IF you are T5 this should NOT happen.

i just (as in.. 10% in or such) progressed to Tier4.
But seriously, none of the Tier1 and 2 in said game mentioned waiting times, they all said "there is no MMR".

Is there nothing official on this? Security through obscurity? What is this, a "hide facts from playerbase" situation?

Regards
Deagle

Edited by JUDGE DEagle, 18 February 2017 - 08:22 AM.

[Ghogiel]

WolvesX, on 18 February 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

Actually I know that I have seen you in a few games with my Pirates Bane. IF you are T5 this should NOT happen.

he has played enough in the last couple months with a positive W/L to be T4

In which case then the MM is working as intended since PGI admitted that it would actually put T4s and T1s together contrary to the originally stated T1s never being MM'd against T4-5s.

[JUDGE DEagle]

Ghogiel, on 18 February 2017 - 08:21 AM, said:

he has played enough in the last couple months with a positive W/L to be T4

In which case then the MM is working as intended since PGI admitted that it would actually put T4s and T1s together contrary to the originally stated T1s never being MM'd against T4-5s.

Would you mind pointing me to the quote of how the actual matchmaking is working so that tier 4 and 1 get mingled?
Its ofc possible all these other players dont know how this is working at all and im making something out of nothing.....

Regards
Deagle

[Tarl Cabot]

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5569557

Tina Benoit, on 13 January 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

Heya,

We've been hearing a couple complaints here and there about high tiers getting matched up with or against low tiers players and wanted to let you guys know what's up.

We do currently have it set that Tier 1 players and Tier 4 players can get matched together, however we've just recently reduced it (due to reports), so that it now takes 4.5 minutes before that will happen.
We've basically done this so that you won't be stuck waiting for a match for too long but you should be getting much nicer matches now compared to last couple days.

Let us know if the Matchmaker is feeling better!

Of course, as to my previous post, their wording is suspect because they do not provide details nor examples. There is no clear definition saying if the initial seeded player is Tier 3, then "could" T1 and T5 be in the same drop. Most of the time the devs statements are from the viewpoint of the seeded player is T1, then no T5, or if the seeded player is T5 then no T1 but nothing about in-between. They may not be completely aware the programming details, just like when PGI doubled TT initial armor values, the higher ups were unaware that the coding initiated with the doubling of the internal structure first then allowing it to flow through to the doubling of the armor values.

When asked, PGI has failed to provide details.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 18 February 2017 - 10:42 AM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

working as intended

[Weeny Machine]

Appogee, on 18 February 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

10 losses from 12 matches today.

Every team has been two-thirds potatoes that cant do 200 damage before they die.

I can't carry them, even when I go full meta. And trying to level non-meta Mechs is pure frustration, creeping along at 300XP a match.

The game is basically unplayable for me as a Tier 1 player during Euro daytime/ Oceanic evening.
I should just uninstall. PGI clearly don't give a sh1t, if they ever did.

I was in one of those games (where you also vented some steam hehe). Heck, I got barely 300 dmg in. Suddenly I was surrounded by a sea of red and got wtfbbqed. When I looked at the screen nearly the whole team was dead. It is also unbelievable in which time they lose their mechs. I mean, it is like running straight into the enemy team or something like that. It is scary

[Appogee]

Snazzy Dragon, on 18 February 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

working as intended

Every PUG match I played today was like that. 6 players who couldn't do 200 damage. Frequently, 4 of them couldn't do 100 damage. I think I ended winning 4 matches out of 24 and just wishing I'd gone and done something else all day/

Bush Hopper, on 18 February 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

I was in one of those games (where you also vented some steam hehe). Heck, I got barely 300 dmg in. Suddenly I was surrounded by a sea of red and got wtfbbqed. When I looked at the screen nearly the whole team was dead. It is also unbelievable in which time they lose their mechs.

That's the thing. You barely get enough time to do 300 damage and then you're soloing 8 enemies.

[Unit47]

Pretty much non-existent atm,

[JUDGE DEagle]

Tarl Cabot, on 18 February 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5569557


Of course, as to my previous post, their wording is suspect because they do not provide details nor examples. There is no clear definition saying if the initial seeded player is Tier 3, then "could" T1 and T5 be in the same drop. Most of the time the devs statements are from the viewpoint of the seeded player is T1, then no T5, or if the seeded player is T5 then no T1 but nothing about in-between. They may not be completely aware the programming details, just like when PGI doubled TT initial armor values, the higher ups were unaware that the coding initiated with the doubling of the internal structure first then allowing it to flow through to the doubling of the armor values.

When asked, PGI has failed to provide details.

The post your TIna Quote is from also has a Russ quote with: ... "Solo Queue averages a one tier spread"...
So which is it, 4-5 tier spread or 1 tier spread....?

Regards
Deagle

Edited by JUDGE DEagle, 18 February 2017 - 02:12 PM.

[Appogee]

JUDGE DEagle, on 18 February 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

a Russ quote ... "Solo Queue averages a one tier spread"...

"Average" is the trick word in this sentence.

During Euro morning and Oceanic evening, there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD that there is only a one tier spread in the matchmaking. I am dropping in matches where what are clearly completely new players are asking the most basic questions about Mechs, piloting, win conditions etc.

At the end of the match - usually over in just a few minutes - I will consistently find 6 players haven't done even 200 damage - often a good deal less.

But Russ can talk about "averages" because probably in North American primetime there probably are enough players that a one-tier spread is the norm (because PSR's built-in bracket creep means there are a lot of players in Tier 1 and 2 who just XPed their way up over the year).

[DAYLEET]

JUDGE DEagle, on 18 February 2017 - 06:55 AM, said:

Hi all

after running into a streamer i happen to know to be Tier 1 i wondered about the Quick-Play MMR System in this game (myself just getting from Tier 5 to 4 after having started around christmas).

My question about this was answered in game with "there is no MMR system, everyone gets thrown in the same pond".. and the players were a wild mix of tier 1 to tier 5.

Now that would explain two things:

1.) why my games have been anything from frustrating (a single enemy light tearing apart half my team) to decent
2.) why half of my friends already quit the game in the first few weeks.

IF its true that your throwing new Tier5 players with fresh mechs against experienced Tier1 with mastered and moduled mechs this has to be the most stupid decision i have seen from a company for quite some time. You are literally scaring away your resupply of fresh players.

As i can see from some forum posts there was apparently ONCE a MMR system in place... obviously it no longer is.
Well, im kind of speechless,.... and already sorry i spend money on a game that obviously is deliberately beeing killed by its producer....

Anyone got a good explanation why this is the case?

Regards
Deagle

If you dont mind having a longer wait time, take it to twitter where Russ will see your concern. The fact of the matter is, we wanted newplayers to have an easier time and tiering was the solution. If if doesnt work it has no reason to exist. Maybe tiering doesnt change a thing either, its all random chaotic fight in a system with one life and separate health pool. So who knows, id try a harsher waiting time for strict tiering and enforce the 3/3/3/3 rule so all weight class get 3 in each game.

Who am i kidding, ofcourse it matters, chaotic or not. New players are just entering a grinder that makes it impossible for them to xp their mech, earn cbills and get better.

Edited by DAYLEET, 18 February 2017 - 02:52 PM.

[JUDGE DEagle]

DAYLEET, on 18 February 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

If you dont mind having a longer wait time, take it to twitter where Russ will see your concern.

im not going to make a twitter account just to communicate in parallel what i already posted in their official forum....
I assume they read their own forum.... but maybe thats a far stretch

Even tier 4 (where i got around the time i mastered my first mechs, still not moduled) with T1 would be terrible for player base.

If the reddit survey mentioned in the above linked thread is even a bit representive it should take really longer to find a game at T5 than any other rank...
But i never noticed having to wait in quick play ever (oppsed to faction play, where waiting 20m for a scouting match seems to be the norm)...
https://docs.google....#gid=1290570935

Also, a average of 1 tier spread would actually be really tight, considering the gaus distribution is capped on one side (there is nothing below 0 tier spread)... giving the amount of players i see running around with "founders" titles that i assume to NOT be in tier 5 any more i have a hard time believing that. Perhaps im wrong here, impressions dont necessarily are true to the facts...

Regards
Deagle

[Cabusha]

I recall reading the MM was relaxed because of the population. That means as a Tier 4 you can easily see tier 1. That combined with the biased PSR system means you will be "food" for the high tier pop no matter what.

I'll have to see if I have a photo still stashed of it, but I had a match that perfectly demonstrated how broken the PSR system is. Was leveling my King Crabs, rounded a corner and was nuked by the enemy team. Dead in the first 3 minutes. I dealt 0 damage, and did literally nothing. Guess what? Team miraculously managed to pull out a win, and my PSR was an = sign at the end of match. So on a win where you literally do nothing, PSR will hold you up. I should have dropped. But nope. Only way to drop is to do poorly on a loss, because a good loss can also hold you or push you up.

And it's designed that way because of the limited player base. In reality, the majority of the population should eventually average out in Tier 3 ish, but the biased PSR pushes you up and up to tier 1/2. You just get there faster if you're good.

[xe N on]

Appogee, on 18 February 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

10 losses from 12 matches today.

Every team has been two-thirds potatoes that cant do 200 damage before they die.

They don't need to be necessarily potatoes (btw. I hate this term).

Sometimes I score below 200 damage too, although it's not very common. The reason for scoring below 200 damage is manifold.

Yesterday, for example, piloting my HBK-II-C I was totally surprised on Mining Colony by a squad of 3 pulse laser locusts and 1 commando at the very beginning of the match. Very unexpected move from the enemy team. I survived pretty much beaten up.

Currently I drive full meta mechs to increase my PSR to Tier 1. It is .... boring. Sometimes I need to play non-meta mechs to have some fun and than I score much lower (e.g. my in Ember).

So to summarize, there are so many reason to score low like
- experimenting with builds
- leveling mechs
- driving fun mechs
- simply bad luck
- driving a brawler on maps like polar or alpine
- etc.

Statistically in every match you have some player that score low because of this reason.

Edited by xe N on, 18 February 2017 - 11:13 PM.