71 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

aim at about hip level rather than ct. dont aim directly at legs because there is a lot of room to miss, if you aim hips you either hit a leg or the ct, which is where you want to get the damage. you can also aim for sts because a lot of lights run xl. even on a clan light st blows can slow it down a lot, next best thing to legging. also when i have to fight lights with lasers, thats one of those rare occasions i unlock my arms.

dont chase lights if you dont have to. its also easier to aim from a stationary position than while moving. this is how lights can elude an entire lance that all decided to chase the squirrel. you get 4 or more mechs after one all they tend to do is get in the way of each others shots while trying to gain what they think is an easy kill. and worse, you open the other mechs up to a push on the now diminished ranks. the only exception may be streak boats but they are actually capable of being able to bring down a light quickly. but even then that light could be walking you into a trap.

best anti light weapons in my opinion are streaks, srms, and lb autocannons (if you have godlike aim then any ballistics will work, for example that one game where i legged 3 light mechs on my first shot while running a 3xac10 ilya). the mech will be moving enough that focusing on a particular section will be problematic and scatter weapons will guarantee hits and they dont need much damage to take out. ive tried to take out lights with 80 point laser alphas and fail. that kind of thing just overheats you and most of the damage misses or gets spread because the light can manuver. reserve such alphas for when the light screws up, bets hung up on terrain, and leaves himself open to a fatal alpha.

[Pjwned]

Ruar, on 19 February 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

I run a 3x LL Enforcer. So I have 27pts of damage if I hold them on target.

So why is it I have to shoot light mechs four and five times to the same area to kill them? Is there some factor about how crit hits work that I don't realize?

I was just in a match where I put three bursts into a Jenner's CT and hit him a few times earlier and he still killed me in two shots to the CT.

At this point I think there is some kind of error with laser hit detection compared to SRMs or ballistics.


Any advice would be appreciated because I'm tired of putting shot after shot into light mechs only to see them still running around.

Well, right off the bat, 3x large laser Enforcer is pretty bad. I'm not sure why you would run that unless for some reason you have a STD engine equipped, which makes no sense on a chassis where all your weapons are on 1 side (if you're running all energy weapons).

Try running 3x large pulse laser instead, or even 2x LPL and a PPC.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

OP, it's because lights come with automatic reflective paint which works great against lasers. Unfortunately out of the factory they forget to put the second coating on the legs.

Believe me... if you start heating up the legs, they'll run away very quickly. No matter the light mech (even the tanky lights), they always need their legs.

As for shooting CT, I strongly believe there's convergence issues. When you shoot them, what you see is you hitting their CT. What might be happening is that you are hitting one side of the CT and the other side of the CT. Any slight movements from you or them will bounce to the ST without much effort.

I tried shooting a light in a night gyr and my arm weapons went cross-eyed while my shoulders hit perfectly straight. The arm shots missed, because it tried to converge too close. I've never seen a miss like that before but hey.

Anyways lights = legs.

[Monkey Lover]

yep light hit reg is junk but light q is almost zero soo....... I don't think its getting fixed.

[PhoenixFire55]

Ruar, on 19 February 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

Any advice would be appreciated because I'm tired of putting shot after shot into light mechs only to see them still running around.

It would be a good start to mention your average ping and jitter. A difference between 300ms and 100ms ping is huge, a difference between 100ms and 30ms ping is still very noticeable. In my experience ping >~70ms is where laser hitreg starts to get worse. If your ping is >~200ms you will have trouble killing lights with anything that isn't Streak SRMs.

[General Solo]

Yeah this
Basically the position you see the light mech at on your screen is not the same position the MWO server see's the light mech at.
Only thing you can do is guess where the lights gonna be in a second or so or Use the Force.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 20 February 2017 - 01:18 AM.

[Tarogato]

Ruar, on 19 February 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

I run a 3x LL Enforcer. So I have 27pts of damage if I hold them on target.

So why is it I have to shoot light mechs four and five times to the same area to kill them? Is there some factor about how crit hits work that I don't realize?

I was just in a match where I put three bursts into a Jenner's CT and hit him a few times earlier and he still killed me in two shots to the CT.

At this point I think there is some kind of error with laser hit detection compared to SRMs or ballistics.


Any advice would be appreciated because I'm tired of putting shot after shot into light mechs only to see them still running around.

Find yourself some recording software (I would recommend OBS, which is a quick google away), and record your gameplay.

Next time you put a full burn into a light, go back and watch the recording frame-by-frame. You'll find that you're nowhere near as accurate as you think you are. You might think you were dead on a Jenner's CT, but in reality you grazed it's left arm, it's left torso, it's right torso, it's CT, it's cockpit, and it's left leg. You could have sworn you had it locked perfectly onto the CT. But really... you didn't.

It's like the brain plays this trick on you, where you're more likely to see your shots hitting where you're trying to make them to go, than to actually see them for what they are and where they actually end up going.

[SQW]

Look at it this way. Hitting a moving light on the same torso section with normal lasers would be equivalent to you head shot heavies and assault - the target area, factoring in movement, would be the same.

When was the last time you drilled a bunch of lasers into that ATLAS eye socket and the CT wireframe starts blinking instead?

[Vellron2005]

The last time something similar happened to me was in a FW match against the infamous MJ12 premade.. one of their number took out 3.. not one, not two, but THREE of my Mad Dog's with 2-3 shots (magically all into the CT), in an SRM Jenner..

The same player was in a different match seen running at full speed in a 3 LPL RAVEN...

So yeah... hacks.

But it's common knowledge that lights have a server-side damage shield on the torsos.. most of them are incredibly tough.. so aim for legs..

Isn't it funny how when you shoot your 3 ERLL's into a commando in training grounds, you kill it in 1-2 shots, but when there's a live pilot in the cockpit, it takes many times that?

[Fox With A Shotgun]

You want to know the #1 way of making sure lights don't come to you?

Flamers.

No, I'm bloody serious. Flamers.

Lights have very poor heat capacities, and even worse cooling. Flamers have *massive* hitboxes, and push up that heat to high heaven. They want to stick around, they overheat and stop, and you get a free alpha without a possibility of a miss. They run away, and you get a free shot at their retreating backs. If they're not close enough for you to flamer them, then they're far enough away that you can actually use your other weapons to some degree of effectiveness.

Not your style? SRMs (the regular variety, not the streaks), PPC/ERPPC, or IS AC10/AC20. Well placed shots absolutely murder lights. Just aim roughly centre mass, and they'll bug off after one or two hits.

[SQW]

Vellron2005, on 20 February 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

Isn't it funny how when you shoot your 3 ERLL's into a commando in training grounds, you kill it in 1-2 shots, but when there's a live pilot in the cockpit, it takes many times that?

Training ground mechs rarely has full armor. Show me a live pilot who doesn't max out their light's leg armor and I show you a 1-2 shot kill. =P

Best weapon for lights are high damage one shot weapons like AC20s, SRMs, PPCs and etc - you either hit and kill or miss. Using lasers, even pulse ones, is just asking for trouble.

If only they reduce a 20 ton mech's heat capacity to 1/5 of an assault mech's, then we can say goodbye to those 500+ dmg ACH/LCT shenanigans.

[METAL SEPARATOR]

Don't play on Asian servers. Last time I played there I put 400+ damage into a medium mech and still didn't kill it.
I deliberately didn't shot anything else and after the match I had 400+ damage in my stats, it was the only mech that I shot during that match. It was impossible for it not to die, because I applied the damage quite accurately.

Edited by MWn00b, 20 February 2017 - 03:31 AM.

[Lykaon]

Ruar, on 19 February 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

I run a 3x LL Enforcer. So I have 27pts of damage if I hold them on target.

So why is it I have to shoot light mechs four and five times to the same area to kill them? Is there some factor about how crit hits work that I don't realize?

I was just in a match where I put three bursts into a Jenner's CT and hit him a few times earlier and he still killed me in two shots to the CT.

At this point I think there is some kind of error with laser hit detection compared to SRMs or ballistics.


Any advice would be appreciated because I'm tired of putting shot after shot into light mechs only to see them still running around.

For starters I think you may think light mechs are frailer than they actually are. For example a Jenner 7-D has 22 CT structure and up to 44 front armor and 11 quirked CT structure. For a total of 77 points on the CT.

27 X 3 = 81 and that is bearly enough damage to kill it IF you hit the CT with every damage tick on the laser's duration and since I assume you were both moving that's unlikely.

Next issue is lasers and the burn duration will cause spreading of damage across several areas of the target and even include a good amount of wasted damage that passes past or around the target as it moves through the beam. Essentially assume around a 30-40% effectivness of your damage from Normal lasers when employed against lights (you of course be a crack shot and get better results but typicaly look for around 60% damage loss/dispersal)

Pulse lasers with their shorter durations fair better of course.

Keep in mind how Host State Rewind works in MWo. what you see from your client may not be how the server precieves the events. And it's the server's recall that determines what really happens.

You may see three large lasers burn dead center into the Jenner three times but what actually happen is the lasers raked across the side torso and a bit into dead air.

For obvious reasons pin point front loaded damage is the most effective against lights (against anything really) So ACs are light killers. it just requires steady aim and a solid grasp on target leading to hit consistantly.

It is also good to know your targets weaknesses. Some lights you leg others you aim center mass or XL check.

Examples:

Jenners and IIcs have ammo catching center torsos. The CT protrudes forward and can be hit from pretty much any angle. So aim for the CT.

Ravens...never skip leg day. They are more than half leg in surface area.I actually aim at the hip ring on Ravens since this will hit either leg/both legs depending on weapon damage source.

Locusts..special case for me. If I am also in a light it's legs heavyer mechs I aim center mass and go for the XL kill.

Spiders are an issue for me as these are the only light mechs that I feel may still have some wonky hit reg. Generaly aim lower on these mechs at waist level. They are jumpy and you do not want to aim to low in case the pilot hops to spread some damage. Aiming lower concentrates damage on the legs still.

Arctic Cheetahs again if I'm in a light mech I saw the arms off these guys to deprive them of fire power before going in for the kill. A legged Cheetah will still kill you they have much to potent firepower to ignore in light vs light fights. Larger mechs...it's legs again. Aim at the hips for the reasons I stated earlier.

Edited by Lykaon, 20 February 2017 - 07:26 AM.

[Metus regem]

Ruar, on 19 February 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

I run a 3x LL Enforcer. So I have 27pts of damage if I hold them on target.

So why is it I have to shoot light mechs four and five times to the same area to kill them? Is there some factor about how crit hits work that I don't realize?

I was just in a match where I put three bursts into a Jenner's CT and hit him a few times earlier and he still killed me in two shots to the CT.

At this point I think there is some kind of error with laser hit detection compared to SRMs or ballistics.


Any advice would be appreciated because I'm tired of putting shot after shot into light mechs only to see them still running around.

Lasers are actually really bad at dealing with targets effectively and efficiently, like to the point where 1/3rd of that "Alpha" would be better served as PPFLD (Pin Point Front Load Damage), to be to the point your 15t of large lasers are less effective than 1 7t PPC and dealing with other mechs. As that PPC does all 10 points to one location the instant it hits, rather than dealing 27 points over 1 full second, as during that duration damage can be twisted between the arms, ST's and CT, to effectively reduce your alpha damage to 1/3rd to 1/5th to any one location. Where lasers shine (heh), is their ability to inflate your damage dealt and match score, second only to LRM's in that regard.

If you want to effectively kill light mechs, but have trouble aiming, streak short range missiles are ideal, especially the clan versions as they are available in larger tube counts. If you can aim, then snap fire weapons like PPC's and IS AC's are very strong against them as well, SRM's and LB's do well, if your aim is not great. That being said, if you are going to stick with lasers, than I would recommend aiming at legs rather than torso sections, this works two fold, as light legs are large targets meaning they are easy to hit, coupled with the fact that when you take one leg, you drastically reduce the mobility of the light, meaking it an easier kill as well.

[C E Dwyer]

You don't lead enough op, and probably over correct your aim

[Pariah Devalis]

Ruar, on 19 February 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

I appreciate the responses, but it doesn't really explain why I can put three or four shots (81-108 dmg) into the CT and still not get a kill. Yes I realize I may not get full burn on each of those shots, but there shouldn't be more than 40ish armor per torso so if I only hit the center and one side I should be seeing the side torso die or the mech die.

Let us look at a Wolfhound. Taking into account only the torsos, the total maximum damage you can inflict without actually killing the mech is 159. That is all the armor on the torsos, and all but 1 structure in each torso. Each arm has a further 36 damage they can absorb before destruction, so up to 72 more damage it can absorb. I have not even touched the legs yet, nor the head, and that is 231 damage a light mech can absorb before death.

231 damage, mind you, before quirks. Against light mechs who are moving, armor rolling, jumping, and what have you, your lasers will smear. You will spread that damage across several armor segments. It's a function of it being a small, fast target with several small, compressed hit boxes. Unless the mech is absolutely stationary, it will happen.

I suggest switching your focus on lights to the legs, and only the legs at least, until, one of them goes poof. Speed is armor for lights, but if you aim low, your lasers/ppc/ac/etc will essentially only have two places to deal all their damage. Left leg or right. Each leg can take, before quirks, 48 damage before exploding.

Trying to deal 48 damage to one of two targets is a lot easier than trying to deal 66 damage to one section of five. Once the leg blows out, that speed armor? It is gone, and you are free to tear a torso of your choice, or even the remaining leg, off at your leisure.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 20 February 2017 - 08:24 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Ruar, on 19 February 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

I appreciate the responses, but it doesn't really explain why I can put three or four shots (81-108 dmg) into the CT and still not get a kill. Yes I realize I may not get full burn on each of those shots, but there shouldn't be more than 40ish armor per torso so if I only hit the center and one side I should be seeing the side torso die or the mech die.

What other have said before plus:

For the same reason I can fire 3 volleys of 18 SRMs into a target's back point blank and get a total damage of 36 damage done after I blow up

Edited by Bush Hopper, 20 February 2017 - 08:31 AM.

[Coolant]

Laser Duration and ballistic stream and LOS radar. There was none of that in MW4:Mercs and lights were very easy to kill (but then it didn't matter if you were a light because there was unlimited respawn).

[Mcgral18]

When dealing with lights, it works best if you shoot them

https://youtu.be/c_06QIL2M7I?t=35s


And hit them with powerful weapons. PP FLD to the rST will kill them every time, if they're Spheroid.

But, sometimes that just doesn't work. See Battlemaster at the end for either Shitreg at its finest, or the invisible Quirks which don't appear on the paperdoll (29 CT and 18 ST structure)


I do wish they'd fix that. Hitting a crimson component to no effect.

[Humpday]

I always seem to get murdered by LBX cannons and PPCs in my cheetah. You can dance around lasers for the most part as long as you keep moving and torso twist.

When I run my storm crow i have a hard time killing lights with the lazers, so i switch to my autocannon.

Really good players though are quite accurate with lasers...some people have amazing twitch reflexes.