368 replies to this topic

[NeoCodex]

Wow, I really like the mobility changes. This came as a surprise out of nowhere. What a great idea. A huge change, but solves so many problems with the lower end of the tonnage bracket for 60 and 80 tonners.. Finally!

- I still don't like that it costs 400xp for something that you already unlocked. Why keep the xp cost but not a cbill cost instead? It would make a bit more sense to have a smaller cbill fee, as you've already "learned" that skill by unlocking with xp, why pay xp again to retrofit a mech. It should have been just free in the first place to promote some diversity and experimenting..

[Arkhangel]

It already is. and honestly, 400xp is a match, win or lose, if you're actually DOING something. I just see it as a "used to previous modifications, so re-learning how this works again" kinda like, say, a person's aim being off after relying too often on homing weapons (you pilots know who you are.)

[XX BURT XX]

I am quite new here - if I am currently leveling my mech, and for example level my Large Laser cooldown skill, purchase module for 3.000.000 Cbills and fit to my mech.... will I loose this all with the next update and skill tree?? Loosing the invested XP, Cbills and module?? Shall I save my XP and Cbills, for the new skill update?

[MrKvola]

XX BURT XX, on 23 February 2017 - 02:10 AM, said:

I am quite new here - if I am currently leveling my mech, and for example level my Large Laser cooldown skill, purchase module for 3.000.000 Cbills and fit to my mech.... will I loose this all with the next update and skill tree?? Loosing the invested XP, Cbills and module?? Shall I save my XP and Cbills, for the new skill update?

You will be reimbursed c-bills for your modules, GXP for module unlocks and XP spent on skills. You will be able to use the reimbursed currencies to upgrade your 'mechs once the new system is applied to the live environment.

So far it seems though that PGI is looking to artificially increase the grind to master a 'mech. Remains to be seen by how much. With the current figures it is about 50% more grind compared to what we have now.

[XX BURT XX]

thanks, appreciated!

[Aramuside]

My 290 mechs thank you for the cost change PGI.

Rather worried about the implications to agility as I prefer to play fast striker mediums with currently good agility. Will wait and see on PTS 2 what has happened to my PXH/Vipers etc.

[XX BURT XX]

Seems as the update may change the in-game feeling of many mechs ... well lets see. I feel with Aramuside, lucky me I have just a few of them...still worried about how my pimped and quirked Nova and Blattlemaster will feel like. Keep finger crossed

[ZortPointNarf]

I quite like the idea of the change, even though I go full pokemech it always saddens me once I master a mech (especially the Hero variants) and move on to another mech that needs leveling.

The changes I would make to the tree would be as follows, a once off Skill Point (SP) cost, that can be unlocked by one of four payment methods, namely CBills, Experience Points, Historical Experience Points (General Experience Points) and (drumroll) MC.
1SP = 50000CB
1SP = 1500XP
1SP = 1500XP
1SP = 5MC
*All Just idea values

With all the nodes being unlockable (if the mech supports it), BUT only X number may be active at any time (the current 91). There is no cost involved in switching between your active nodes as you paid for them once, in some currency. in addition it introduces an additional revenue stream to PGI, whilst not becoming pay to win. Everyone can unlock a node, either by CB, MC or GP, it depends on what you wish to spend to get your mech mastered. If your mech supports it and you really feel you need to unlock everything you could do that, gives you something to do with all the extra GP if you don't feel like converting it to GXP.

I do feel for the whales with over 100 mechs, that will still be a lot of work. Although,I do feel you don't need to master a mech to get the most out of it, there are some mechs that would be great with just 40 SP.

[Slambot]

What I also don't get so much is a cbill cost to buy nodes. Really cbills should be for buying and modifying equipment. Exp should be for learning how to pilot your mech better so you can get the most out of it. Once you attach a cbill cost to the nodes, you may as well just do away with exp. It's redundant.

[Sodoff Baldrick]

A litte lost here, so a question for the strategists:

I've been wondering how to get the most out of my XP after ST is coming.

I have some favorite mechs I have a lot of mech XP on and some mechs just barely mastered/elited.

As I understand it, XP will get chassis specific XP that I can use for leveling only this specific chassis in the future?
This would allow me to practically instantly master the high XP mechs in the new system but I would have to grind again for the just barely mastered mechs again.

Would it be better to convert all but say ~150k mech XP on each mech to GXP before the ST is happening, so that I can use GXP freely on any mech I want to?

In other words, are the mech XP >150k practically lost in the new system (except for respecs)?
And is there a strategy to avoid/minimize this?

Would it be better to keep these GXP or should I invest the GXP into the mechs I want to level up in the new ST before the ST?
Should I buy modules?
Or will all XP (mechXP/GXP/Modul spent XP) come together in one big pool anyway?
What happens to XP on mechs I no longer own?

[Slambot]

Also, some people have posted that us pokemech players shouldn't complain. Let me explain it then from my view.

Since the stat reset, I have earned over 17 million exp. I have spent quite a lot of money on this game because I play every day and I really like the way the game works and runs and plays. I have significant playtime on every mech chasis in game except for linebackers. Now, that playtime earned me exp, gxp and cbills. I have used cbills to buy modules, mechs, upgrades and to tinker with my mechs endlessly.

PGI has stated that I will get back all of the exp that I have earned on all of my mechs ready to spend on the new system. PGI has also stated that I will have to spend cbills when I spend my exp. The thing is, I will run out of cbills LONG before I spend all of my exp. This is even with the 300 million plus cbills I will recoup when PGI switches things around. I feel I should have the right to spend all of my earned exp on all of my mechs WITHOUT having to burn all of my hard-earned cbills to do so. I don't care that not all of my mechs will have all the exp to fully spec out the mech. I have spent endless time and lots of money on this game and feel that if I can't run the mechs I want up to at least the capability that I can in the current iteration of the game, then I am being screwed. I will be forced to grind over 1 billion more cbills just to spend the xp I have earned. (Since the stat reset a couple years ago, I have earned 1.8 billion cbills so you can see the amount of time involved for me)

Now, there is another alternative. I can sell half my mechs or so and thereby free up 160ish mech bays.

Now, if you are a company that survives on mech sales and micro transactions such as mech bays etc...Then you want to create conditions where people want to buy those things... If ALL of your best customers are suddenly faced with not being able to spend the exp they have and have to grind out the cbills for mechs they already own... well, that just means that all the best customers will stop buying the things your company needs to survive. There is a business term that I can't remember at the moment for companies that create less demand for their products, but I am damned sure that very few of those companies that have done so are around for very long. OH! I just remembered, the term is "market suicide."

[NeoCodex]

Slambot, on 23 February 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

Also, some people have posted that us pokemech players shouldn't complain. Let me explain it then from my view.

Since the stat reset, I have earned over 17 million exp. I have spent quite a lot of money on this game because I play every day and I really like the way the game works and runs and plays. I have significant playtime on every mech chasis in game except for linebackers. Now, that playtime earned me exp, gxp and cbills. I have used cbills to buy modules, mechs, upgrades and to tinker with my mechs endlessly.

PGI has stated that I will get back all of the exp that I have earned on all of my mechs ready to spend on the new system. PGI has also stated that I will have to spend cbills when I spend my exp. The thing is, I will run out of cbills LONG before I spend all of my exp. This is even with the 300 million plus cbills I will recoup when PGI switches things around. I feel I should have the right to spend all of my earned exp on all of my mechs WITHOUT having to burn all of my hard-earned cbills to do so. I don't care that not all of my mechs will have all the exp to fully spec out the mech. I have spent endless time and lots of money on this game and feel that if I can't run the mechs I want up to at least the capability that I can in the current iteration of the game, then I am being screwed. I will be forced to grind over 1 billion more cbills just to spend the xp I have earned. (Since the stat reset a couple years ago, I have earned 1.8 billion cbills so you can see the amount of time involved for me)

But here you also get weapon modules and radar derps for this cost for every mech. It's a nerf to module switching yes, but it's not like they're cbill gating your mobility mastery which you got with the old system. Oh, wait.. they are.

Now that I think of it, it doesn't make sense to pay for this either, maybe if they split the cbill cost for module functionality only (1 mil cbill per radar derp node) and basic stuff like movement is free. Maybe they just wanted to make it more universal for now, each point costing the same.. But it does kind of suck you need to pay a tax for basic mastery now I agree.

Will we still have enough cbills for basic mastery of all our mechs if we're not investing into weapon modules? So movement, speed tweak and cool runs. Full seismic tree it's kind of hard to expect you would get on every mech "for free" now. Only my favorite mechs would get weapon upgrades, that's the last thing.

[SuperFunkTron]

tokumboh, on 23 February 2017 - 12:23 AM, said:

I am not sure that any game improvement happen with these pokemon paying customers.

A game improvement happens equally to all players regardless of whether or not you play Pokemon or Pokemech. The only case in which there is no improvement is when people fail to prioritize the mechs where they spend c-bills or when people fail to cope with their OCD and break down over a change that allows players to establish a competitive 15 mech stable more quickly.

Quote

It is just worth considering that with respect to making 'improvements'. Do I like the direction the skill tree is going yes and no does it hurt people with large stables of mechs undoubtedly. My spreadsheeting of the cost says below 15 mechs the cost to replicate what you have balances out but it becomes huge at around 100 mechs with some people needing a cool billion to upgrade their current mechs. The fact that time limits the grinding you can do I believe the median player plays 100 games a month buying new mechs and mastering them at least to be competitive becomes a challenge.

If you are not receiving more c-bills back than you need to max out all of your mechs, it means you purchased less than 1/3 of the c-bills necessary to truly master your current mechs by adding modules to them. This is going to be a curve ball for Pokemech collectors but a master badge without the modules is an imposter until it is loaded with its own modules.

Choosing a larger number of mechs always makes costs increase, but I am willing to bet that you are not cycling through 100 mechs on a regular basis, needing their full skill nodes all at once. I have a stable of 100 mechs and though I have all of my mechs at least at an elite level, but I am fully aware that I will need to prioritize my most used mechs rather than the mechs I rarely use or leave around because I bought them.

What level of upgrades do you consider competitive? I have been competing for top damage in my Supernovas for the last 2 nights and have been consistently in the top 3 on my team, sometimes even the top damage of the game. While some of these mechs had no upgrades at all, the most advanced had 4. Upgrades provide an edge, they don't define whether or not someone will play well or poorly

Quote

for example you would nmot go on polar highlands or indeed many maps without radar dep so I think the issue is a concern and cannot be just dismissed with the pokemon jibe

When did radar deprivation become canonized as a requirement in this game? I have radar deprivation on a grand total of 2 of my 115 mechs, and those are mechs that NEED it because of their scouting and harassing role. I might be a bit old school, but using cover and sometimes AMS, I have been able to mitigate a lot of damage of LRMs a good chunk of the time. It also helps to shoot down enemy UAVS

TL,DR: Pokemech collecting and Pokemech mastering are not the same.
More mechs more problems (ask Biggie if you don't believe me)
A mech without upgrades can compete, just ask guys who pull off 500-1000 damage in brand new mechs.
Radar deprivation is not a necessity, its a luxury.

[SuperFunkTron]

Slambot, on 23 February 2017 - 04:14 AM, said:

What I also don't get so much is a cbill cost to buy nodes. Really cbills should be for buying and modifying equipment. Exp should be for learning how to pilot your mech better so you can get the most out of it. Once you attach a cbill cost to the nodes, you may as well just do away with exp. It's redundant.

I refer you to my post a few pages ago in which a metaphor of a sports car being tuned to different functions is used. Tuning the car for different track conditions and types (tires, supercharger vs turbo, etc) has its initial cost to purchase the parts, then XP to essentially cover the man hours your mechanic is going to spend to make those adjustments. The more you respec, the more that mechanic has to work, thus the more XP you will spend. It is just as redundant for the mechanic to keep switching between builds as it is for you to keep doing resepecs.

Slambot, on 23 February 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

Also, some people have posted that us pokemech players shouldn't complain. Let me explain it then from my view.

Since the stat reset, I have earned over 17 million exp. I have spent quite a lot of money on this game because I play every day and I really like the way the game works and runs and plays. I have significant playtime on every mech chasis in game except for linebackers. Now, that playtime earned me exp, gxp and cbills. I have used cbills to buy modules, mechs, upgrades and to tinker with my mechs endlessly.

PGI has stated that I will get back all of the exp that I have earned on all of my mechs ready to spend on the new system. PGI has also stated that I will have to spend cbills when I spend my exp. The thing is, I will run out of cbills LONG before I spend all of my exp. This is even with the 300 million plus cbills I will recoup when PGI switches things around. I feel I should have the right to spend all of my earned exp on all of my mechs WITHOUT having to burn all of my hard-earned cbills to do so. I don't care that not all of my mechs will have all the exp to fully spec out the mech. I have spent endless time and lots of money on this game and feel that if I can't run the mechs I want up to at least the capability that I can in the current iteration of the game, then I am being screwed. I will be forced to grind over 1 billion more cbills just to spend the xp I have earned. (Since the stat reset a couple years ago, I have earned 1.8 billion cbills so you can see the amount of time involved for me)

I have finally figured out how to explain this eloquently enough. In the current system a "mastered" mech is only truly mastered until it has it own set of modules to go with it. Consider the now the application of this to the reimbursement. A player who has filled all module slots for 100 mechs has put in a significantly larger c-bill investment than a player who has "mastered" 100 mechs and swaps 20-30 modules between those mechs. Lets use 20 modules to illustrate this point. 20 modules will typically fill all module slots for 4 mechs (we're not discussing comsumables). If a player has 4 mechs that have been FULLY mastered, that means he hasn't really maxed out the remaining 96 in his stable. Sure, he can move those modules around, but moving modules from one mech to another as needed will still leave him with 4 maxed out mechs and 96 that are not.

Quote

Now, there is another alternative. I can sell half my mechs or so and thereby free up 160ish mech bays.

Now, if you are a company that survives on mech sales and micro transactions such as mech bays etc...Then you want to create conditions where people want to buy those things... If ALL of your best customers are suddenly faced with not being able to spend the exp they have and have to grind out the cbills for mechs they already own... well, that just means that all the best customers will stop buying the things your company needs to survive. There is a business term that I can't remember at the moment for companies that create less demand for their products, but I am damned sure that very few of those companies that have done so are around for very long. OH! I just remembered, the term is "market suicide."

If you believe that it is necessary to sell 160 mechs just to get the new master badge for the rest of your stable, then by all means do it. Just be aware that if you are able to purchase c-bills for MC or cash as well. The rest of us have to grind c-bills just like Pokemech collectors to max out all of our mechs, no reason they should get it at a cheaper rate than everyone else.
Also, your distaste for the system doesn't mean they are committing market suicide, it means that you will finally have to max out your mechs.

TL,DR
Man hours to upgrade and constantly respec your ride are not included in the price of your parts purchase.

A Pokemech master badge does not make you a true Pokemech master. The master badge with empty module slots does not equate to having a mastered mech with filled out module slots. Are you really a Pokemech Master or just a Pokemech collector? The new system makes will make it clear while restoring honor to the MasterBadger community.

Being upset that the new system more accurately awards Master badges does not make the system bad, it means that you have to train harder to move from collector to MasterBadger. Many of us will continue to buy mechs even if you don't.

[MrKvola]

So basically you are saying that you don't mind that people with a large number of 'mechs get shafted because you don't have that many.

The way the economy is set up for the skill tree in this iteration of PTS PGI is adding a great deal of extra grind to the game.

Before you could swap modules (and save some c-bills). Did not have to, but could. Now you will have to spend c-bills and XP on each and every 'mech. The more you have, the more you'll need to grind out. And you have no choice to optimize.

Before you needed to unlock and upgrade modules only once with GXP. Applied to all 'mechs after. With the new system you need to grind separately for each and every 'mech you own.

Effectively what happens is that the total grind involved to level up any number of 'mechs increases exponentially.

I like variety. Therefore I own a lot of 'mechs. Almost all, except for the recent purchases, are at least elited.

Saying that you need to buy dedicated modules to truly master a 'mech is BS. With the old system you had a choice - spend c-bills on modules for each 'mech, or buy just enough of them so you could swap them and use saved c-bills to buy more new 'mechs and gear. Now a) this choice is taken away and the grind to reach the same status increases by a huge margin. I have only limited time for this game and what keeps me playing so far is a certain sense of progress and freedom to experiment. The proposed system takes most of these away or puts a significant cost on them.

[Zen Idiot]

Rhialto, on 20 February 2017 - 07:44 PM, said:

Oh, can you add a clock in the MechLab? I always need to ALT-TAB to know the time. I think I requested this 2 years ago... but if too complex, I just can keep using ALT-TAB and crash once every 5-10 games. I've heard there is less crash using Windowed Mode but I must play Full Screen to trigger 3D Vision. Huge sacrifice to have depth I suppose.

???? ..buy a wall clock. hang it by your computer. problem solved. you're welcome.

[WarHippy]

SuperFunkTron, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

I'm confused as to what "punishment" you see coming. Direct compensation of mech XP, GXP, and c-bills spent on modules is as close to accurate of a compensation as possible. Because time itself can not be returned to you, the above resources are currencies that were used to provide some measure of time and provided an applied value. Even if you managed to get modules on sale, you are still being given the benefit of the doubt and getting bonus c-bills. Could you explain where the punishment in the conversion of your current progress to the new system is?

The refund of XP, GXP, and c-bills does not cover enough to get close to where we are now. That is why it is a punishment. The more mechs you have bought(something PGI has encouraged) the farther in the hole you are. The basic skills in the old system had no c-bill cost, and modules could be moved around freely. Under the old system if I had 2 of the same mech setup differently for different roles they shared the same skill tree, however under the new it requires you to spend XP and C-bills for both which effectively doubles the costs.

SuperFunkTron, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

The only perceived "punishment" I can derive from your posts are that you will be losing mastered status since everyone will still have to put the same number of XP and c-bills into the new system. The minimum number of XP required to master a mech currently translates into a huge head start in the new system.

A head start with regard to XP only, but still behind what we had before.

SuperFunkTron, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

I am also not understanding why you believe that a mech which has only its XP mastered in the current system translates to a mech with 91 nodes in the new system, a system that is using a fundamentally different approach to upgrading mechs. It's apples and oranges.

Even if you only use 50 points to get kind of close to current skills ignoring the module skills it will cost 600,000,000 c-bills to pay for 200 mechs which was free under the old system. I won't have anywhere near that even with the module refund, and that ignores the fact I could have the benefits of modules on the old system by swapping them around which means I would need 91 points to get similar performance.

SuperFunkTron, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

What difference does it make when the system is implemented if you would still have the exact same out of XP? The amount you acquired for each is still the same. The new system is a combination of c-bill and XP upgrades from the current system and allows access to more of the current, high cost modules for a fraction of the price with the trade off of more XP being required to master a mech. The point about which you are correct is that time to reach the XP needed to master is increased, but it provides a more level field for upgrading mechs along the way. Paying 5.5 million for a maxed out mech with abilities of at least 4 modules is still less than 1/3 of the cost of outfitting a mech with 4 modules in the current system.

It matters because both systems result in very different purchase habits. Had we had the new system from the start I wouldn't have made the same purchases I have made under the old.

SuperFunkTron, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

I just told you that I find the new system more interesting and engaging by being able to choose what it is I will be upgrading and specializing my mech for, not to mention the infotech trees. The original post in this thread specifically discussed that they are working to make the next iteration force trade offs as a result of your choices.

I'm sorry, but you are deluding yourself if you think this new tree is actually more engaging. These are the same damn stats we have been using all along +/- a few percentage points. All they are doing is moving them around. Instead of modules you pick from a list you have skill nodes that you pick from a list that do the same thing. Instead of quirks you get those either partially baked into base stats or added to the skill tree. We are being given the illusion of choice. Maybe they will find a way to make it more meaningful, but right now this is just more of the same with a new GUI.

SuperFunkTron, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

In regard to GXP, you will have a huge amount refunded from all the module and pilot upgrades which will only further help you speed along in the upgrading of mechs. Converting excess XP is an option, not a requirement, especially considering that you are earning it every match and its not a scarce resource.

I have always needed more GXP if for no other reason than I can use it to master mechs faster which is important when so many are incredibly bad with out at least the basic skills.

SuperFunkTron, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

If you are preoccupied with remastering every mech, instead of buying new ones coming out, that is your priority. It has no bearing on fact that it won't affect my desire to buy new mechs if I am interested in them. I'm not in a rush to Pokemech master badges. Even with the expectations of the new system coming in, I decided to buy the full Supernova pack 2 days ago simply because I felt there was value to it. This show's that you are not the only consumer nor do you hold the key to other people's wallets.

As the saying goes there is a sucker born every minute. I really don't mean any offense with that statement, but it just seems pretty clear we are never going to come to any understanding.

SuperFunkTron, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

Any alternate system to what we have now could be boiled down to " just moving some of the same numbers around and putting a new GUI" because they have the similar end goal of providing and upgrade system, but provide a very different means to that end. Price tags will obviously be attached as they are currently attached as well. If you don't see how they are trying to improve the new system through testing and changing parameters, then I suggest you read the first post. There is a big difference between a system not providing a means to create mech roles versus someone refusing to acknowledge that the system provides those means.

There are ways to make the trees a great deal more interesting and meaningful. So far what has been given is just more of the same. I am all for them improving things, however while this new version is an improvement it still has a long way to go.

SuperFunkTron, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

TL,DR: Time is not a commodity they can return to you, but currencies earned by investing your time are. A complete refund of those currencies is fair compensation.

True, however the end result of the refund should not put you further behind than where you were. Perhaps if only the skill nodes that center around modules had a c-bill cost this wouldn't be so bad, but so long as all the skill nodes have a c-bill cost and respecs cost anything the new system will be a poor replacement for an already poor system.

SuperFunkTron, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

You are not being punished in the new system, you are transferring your currencies into a new system with different currency demands.

That is unacceptable for many of us as it completely devalues what we had previously done.

SuperFunkTron, on 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

Were you this upset when Pokemon expanded beyond the first 151 and did you even master all of the original 151?

Sorry buttercup, but I have never played Pokemon. However, this statement clearly illustrates your lack of understanding in what people are annoyed with. People are not upset that they are adding more pokemon(mechs) beyond the 151. They are upset that after a patch only 50 of the 151 pokemon(mechs) they had still retain their previous functionality.

[WarHippy]

Slambot, on 23 February 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

Also, some people have posted that us pokemech players shouldn't complain. Let me explain it then from my view.

Since the stat reset, I have earned over 17 million exp. I have spent quite a lot of money on this game because I play every day and I really like the way the game works and runs and plays. I have significant playtime on every mech chasis in game except for linebackers. Now, that playtime earned me exp, gxp and cbills. I have used cbills to buy modules, mechs, upgrades and to tinker with my mechs endlessly.

PGI has stated that I will get back all of the exp that I have earned on all of my mechs ready to spend on the new system. PGI has also stated that I will have to spend cbills when I spend my exp. The thing is, I will run out of cbills LONG before I spend all of my exp. This is even with the 300 million plus cbills I will recoup when PGI switches things around. I feel I should have the right to spend all of my earned exp on all of my mechs WITHOUT having to burn all of my hard-earned cbills to do so. I don't care that not all of my mechs will have all the exp to fully spec out the mech. I have spent endless time and lots of money on this game and feel that if I can't run the mechs I want up to at least the capability that I can in the current iteration of the game, then I am being screwed. I will be forced to grind over 1 billion more cbills just to spend the xp I have earned. (Since the stat reset a couple years ago, I have earned 1.8 billion cbills so you can see the amount of time involved for me)

Now, there is another alternative. I can sell half my mechs or so and thereby free up 160ish mech bays.

Now, if you are a company that survives on mech sales and micro transactions such as mech bays etc...Then you want to create conditions where people want to buy those things... If ALL of your best customers are suddenly faced with not being able to spend the exp they have and have to grind out the cbills for mechs they already own... well, that just means that all the best customers will stop buying the things your company needs to survive. There is a business term that I can't remember at the moment for companies that create less demand for their products, but I am damned sure that very few of those companies that have done so are around for very long. OH! I just remembered, the term is "market suicide."

Let me sum up SuperFunkTrons response to you. "You are dumb, your opinions are wrong, and you are a fraud for playing within the system as designed." You never should have bought all of those mechs, and you should have bought modules for every single one you did buy because it only counts if you did. Don't worry that you feel frustrated to the point you may not buy more mechs or that you may sell many of the ones you currently have because the guy that was already buying less than you is somehow going to make up for the lack of future purchases by you.

[C E Dwyer]

tokumboh, on 23 February 2017 - 12:23 AM, said:

PGI main way of earning money is basically players buying mechs basically putting down at least $15-20 or more likely just going for the $35-$50 to get a XP and C bill bonuses right there you will 3-7 mechs to upgrade or else you will find them lacking in battles.

I am not sure that any game improvement happen with these pokemon paying customers.
It is just worth considering that with respect to making 'improvements'. Do I like the direction the skill tree is going yes and no does it hurt people with large stables of mechs undoubtedly. My spreadsheeting of the cost says below 15 mechs the cost to replicate what you have balances out but it becomes huge at around 100 mechs with some people needing a cool billion to upgrade their current mechs. The fact that time limits the grinding you can do I believe the median player plays 100 games a month buying new mechs and mastering them at least to be competitive becomes a challenge. for example you would nmot go on polar highlands or indeed many maps without radar dep so I think the issue is a concern and cannot be just dismissed with the pokemon jibe

This, along with the removal of rule of three, is why I think I think this system is going to hurt income rolling into P.G.I's coffers.

I've in excess of 300 mechs, why should I pay P.G.I a bean until they're all remastered, this system effectively punishes the people that have spent the most to keep this game alive this long.

Having said that, I'm not against this change, but I want it done correctly. I don't want this to be the third big change P.G.I try and do, which is quickly seen as bad, because it in the last two attempts was bad, and given up on.

This currently has serious flaws which needs to be worked over and fixed, so it's a positive change, and not a bad one forced on the community.

Adding new tech this year, will invalidate all the builds we make with this, once it goes live, and will require a free respec, or this place will get more riled up than ever before.

As the skill tree stands from it's first PTS it needs 'node' redesign, the pathways for the skills within each group of nodes modified so they make sense, and the values altered.

It's a lot of work, and from what I've read of the second session, while it's a good set of changes over the first iteration, it still falls far short of being an improvement on the old system.

If P.G.I insist on us having to take redundant skills that have never been looked at, to reach wanted skills, rather than giving us the choices of taking one type of skill, impacts our ability to take others, its a badly designed tree that will severely impact peoples desire to play the game.

This will reduce income further than this system is going to, by the simple act of removing the rule of three.

[SuperFunkTron]

MrKvola, on 23 February 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

So basically you are saying that you don't mind that people with a large number of 'mechs get shafted because you don't have that many.

No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that it is that expecting an equal pay out as those who invested in both the c-bills and XP is unfair to those who invested c-bills. I just said that I'm being pretty hard by it too, likely over half my mechs will not get any c-bills.

Quote

The way the economy is set up for the skill tree in this iteration of PTS PGI is adding a great deal of extra grind to the game.

Before you could swap modules (and save some c-bills). Did not have to, but could. Now you will have to spend c-bills and XP on each and every 'mech. The more you have, the more you'll need to grind out. And you have no choice to optimize.

for each set of 4 modules, you purchased in the current system, 3 mechs can be maxed in the new system with some change left over. The investment per module in the PTS is a fraction of the cost and makes those benefits much easier to access than needing to save the additional 12 million (15 if you count the 5th module slot) to gain those abilities. Think of it this way, you can use the c-bill reimbursement to immediately put a greater value of modules and upgrades for on to 3 mechs for every set of 2 weapons an 2 mech modules you already have. Sounds like a reasonable starting point, one that I will have to deal with as well.

Quote

Before you needed to unlock and upgrade modules only once with GXP. Applied to all 'mechs after. With the new system you need to grind separately for each and every 'mech you own.

GXP will be returned in full, which means you will have that available to your mechs in addition to your mech XP.

Where does this "grind separately" idea come from? Last I checked, you get c-bills, XP, and GXP for each match. That looks pretty integrated since you are collecting 3 currencies at once.

Quote

Effectively what happens is that the total grind involved to level up any number of 'mechs increases exponentially.

Please show me the math to support this exponential growth. The current XP grind is about 58,000XP per mech for the Master badge, and an additional 18-24 million for the modules. The PTS is going to require 72,800 XP and 5.46 million for the new system. The XP cost is approximately 25% more XP which is offset by a savings up 66-75% of the c-bill cost in the 2nd iteration of the PTS. Where are we dealing with exponential increases?

Quote

I like variety. Therefore I own a lot of 'mechs. Almost all, except for the recent purchases, are at least elited.

Saying that you need to buy dedicated modules to truly master a 'mech is BS. With the old system you had a choice - spend c-bills on modules for each 'mech, or buy just enough of them so you could swap them and use saved c-bills to buy more new 'mechs and gear. Now a) this choice is taken away and the grind to reach the same status increases by a huge margin. I have only limited time for this game and what keeps me playing so far is a certain sense of progress and freedom to experiment. The proposed system takes most of these away or puts a significant cost on them.

If someone asks you how many maxed out mechs you have now, mechs that you spent both XP to upgrade as well as-no less than the 18 million c-bills to get just 4 modules, how would you answer that question? A maxed out mech is more realistically a "mastered" mech because there is not level above or beyond it. By that definition, I could say that I've probably got only about 10-15 fully mastered mechs at any moment out of my stable of 115. What d we say to the guys who have fully mastered 80, 100, 150 of their mechs? That there are people who want to get the same credit as them despite not doing the full c-bill grind?
Swapping is fine for those who want to cut corners, but many people didn't touch those upgrades at all for a very long time because they preferred to get new mechs to play. That creates a 4-5 module gap between those who have had at least 1 complete set. Put that in the context of faction warfare, where 4 mechs need those modules at once. Now, aside from exceptions like the Timber Wolf, there is a chance to put 5 modules on there. The cheapest way of filling that is 3 weapon modules at 3million a piece and 2 mech modules at 6 million a piece, totaling 21 million. Multiply that by 4 mechs and we have a minimum expenditure of 84 million c-bills for 1 drop deck. Now, compare that to the new system in which that cost is 5.46 million multiplied by for mechs, totaling just 21.84 million. That is a 62 million c-bill difference to have FULLY mastered mechs for a single drop deck.

The XP for that same initial drop deck is also hugely reduced in the new system by removing the need for 3 basic mechs to up (assuming we discount that at least one chassis has to have 3 elited mechs before being able to master 1). I'll let you do the math so I know I'm not the only one participating here, but the surprise ending here is that it is still a savings for the players who need it most (the new ones).

Edit: TL,DR
You can't make something from nothing and taking from those who earned more is not right.

Current Master badges are misleading as they still leave room for modular improvement.

Savings from module swapping really only start after the initial 84 million c-bills to build a drop deck while less than 22 million are needed in the new system to build a maxed out drop deck.

Edited by SuperFunkTron, 23 February 2017 - 09:14 AM.