38 replies to this topic

[HiAndromon]

14 matchs, only two good teams, this hurts brawler build even more than long range meta.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Bad teams are pretty common. Most good players form up player made teams and drop in premade groups and just goof off in solo queue if they're alone.

If you're new you start in the lowest tier, so you're 100% guaranteed to have at least half the people in a match have no idea what they are doing, though they aren't often split equally between the teams so you'll see some steamrolls.

Anyway, if you want consistently good teams then you'll have to actually join a team so you'll consistently play with the same people on your side and can coordinate tactics. There's lots of groups looking for new members in the recruitment section of the forum.

[Leone]

I disagree.

If your team's losing, that means the enemy'll be moving up, taking ground an pressing the attack, which means, the brawler can let the enemy come to them. Also it often means the enemy team is more distracted focusing down your teammates, an often'll leave more mechs behind as they press forward, allowing a good flank to pit your brawler against long range mechs not build for that kinda fight.

Sure, you might still lose, but that doesn't mean you can't take advantage of the situation to make the most of your mech.

~Leone

[Ragnahawk]

Learn how to drop command. Learn how to slip through the enemy team's pushes. Always assume that the enemy is pushing to the right side of wherever they are, and always assume they go the usual routes. If you do those two things, you'll be able to command a team, and you'll be able to severely cripple the enemy team alone. (Provided you make your shots count, instead of going in there gungho.)

Edited by Ragnar RedHawk, 01 March 2017 - 10:35 AM.

[HiAndromon]

Ragnar RedHawk, on 01 March 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

Learn how to drop command. Learn how to slip through the enemy team's pushes. Always assume that the enemy is pushing to the right side of wherever they are, and always assume they go the usual routes. If you do those two things, you'll be able to command a team, and you'll be able to severely cripple the enemy team alone. (Provided you make your shots count, instead of going in there gungho.)

Oh i just can't command a team, part of the bad team, of course is me too, that i'm not a good pilot and i know that because i need to improve, but, it feels at least, that all bad players are throwed togheter by the MM

[Jables McBarty]

HiAndromon, on 01 March 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

14 matchs, only two good teams, this hurts brawler build even more than long range meta.

I can speak to the brawler vs. long range meta, as I have that issue too.

I'm naturally a light skirmisher, so when I hop in a heavier brawler, I get impatient to get to the fight. You're also very much at the mercy of your teammates, as you don't want to be charging 500 meters across open water (River City) or plains (Polar Highlands) without covering fire.

So what's a brawler to do? Here's some thoughts:

1. Try drop calling, as suggested above. This has mixed results, but can be gratifying.

2. Hop in a more mobile 'mech. You don't mention what you run, but if Assault, consider going down to a heavy or medium; if Heavy, consider a medium or light. Moving faster means less time for the snipers to hit you.

3. Add a small LRM launcher to your 'mech. I have a cLRM10 on my brawler KDK-2 simply because I often spend 50% of the match closing. Let's me do some damage as I get into range.

4. Add more range to your 'mech. In short, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. This might just be a single LPL to give you some more reach. I tend not to go under 270m as I just don't have the patience. Most of my clan brawlers take MPLs so I can start engaging sooner and poke "true brawlers" before they get into my range.

5. Take joy in a job well done despite your W/L. Sometimes you can't control what other players do, so just do your best and continually improve while enjoying the intrinsic rewards of a job well done.

[Jables McBarty]

HiAndromon, on 01 March 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Oh i just can't command a team, part of the bad team, of course is me too, that i'm not a good pilot and i know that because i need to improve, but, it feels at least, that all bad players are throwed togheter by the MM

"Command" might be too strong of a term.

Here's a beginner's script:

[On the drop screen]
Commander: "Mic check"
Players: "Loud and clear"
Commander: "Good, we have some people with mics."
Players: "yep."
Commander: "So how y'all doing?"
Players chit-chat...

[After deploying from DropShips]
Commander: "Okay boys and girls, let's call targets, stick together, and focus fire."
Players: "Roger."

[on seeing first 'mechs]
Commander: "I see heavies—a TimberWolf an EBJ and a Warhammer in G6."
Players: "Roger that.

[after looking at the minimap]
Commander: "Banshee in E5, careful, you’re being left behind."
Banshee: "Oh ****, I hadn’t noticed! OMW!"
Commander: "Looks like a locust is harassing our Atlas. Can someone mobile help him out?"
Streakdog: "Hooray, an easy kill!"

[In the midst of a brawl]
Commander: Target Charlie, Kodiak, left side torso is exposed. Take him down.
(Players kill him)
Commander: Good kill. Next target Bravo, Ebon Jag, focus CT.
(Players kill him)
Commander: We’ve got an oxide flanking us. Get him before he stirs up too much trouble.
(Streakdog chases him away)
Commander: Alpha is an ECM Griffin with SRMs. Take him out.
(Griffin hides behind a wall and a laservomit BLR comes out.)
Commander: Switching to Echo, Battlemaster. He's probably running an XL so take side torsoes

etc.

You'll notice that none of this has to do with executing elaborate maneuvers, telling people where to go, when to flank. It's mostly about improving situational awareness (the assaults getting left behind, the enemy oxide looking for an opening) and coordinating fire to not only specific 'mechs but also components that are already damaged.

[Razorfire]

Some great advice here. I'll add a cent or two.

"Bad teams" exist largely because of a failure to communicate, coordinate, and take risks.

Not every match needs someone to call the drop, but having even a mediocre player calling the drops can swing the battle significantly in your favor if people are willing to coordinate with the caller and each other.

For this reason, I strongly encourage you to call your drops, especially if you are in a heavy or assault mech,

If you are new to the game and lack experience on the maps, introduce yourself while the timer is ticking down and invite someone else to take the lead and offer to back them up. Offering your support for someone trying to call the drop, even if they are terribad, is infinitely better than arguing that their strategy is bad. Its better for yourself, for your team, and for the community.

There is a guide on these forums that details how to call matches, how to contribute to your team even if you're new, and it is one of the gems from the community. I can't for the life of me find it, however. Grrrrr....

Anyway, it changed my mind about how to enjoy the game. I now introduce myself first thing, every time, announce with humor what mech I've brought and what my role will be, and if I'm in an assault, I will generally offer my tonnage to support whatever leadership emerges. If no one offers a tactic after a few seconds, I will offer again or simply start telling people where I am going and what I am doing. If I want to push an area and need support, I'll announce it and give folks a 10 second warning, then a 5, then a going-in.

Since doing this, I've gone from about 40% wins in solo play to about 65% (I keep tabs in an excel sheet and update every 4 months on how I'm doing). My skills are about the same, maybe worse than they were after a bit of hiatus.

Teamwork is OP. There is no substitute.

Finally, taking no risks is a common failure. Even when teams have a decent leader and a good basic, well communicated early-round strategy, if the team is noncommittal to forward advances in the mid game and just passively sits back and peaks and pokes across the map, it's usually going to end badly for your side once the end game begins. They will roll up a flank with some assaults or heavies while your team waits for them to poke out from where they used to be, and suddenly you'll be down 3-4 mechs and it's a quick game over from there.

I was in a match earlier today in which only two people on blue were in a unit and 10 of the players on the other were in units. Typically, that means you've got an imbalance. Someone lamented over the voice comms that we were doomed. I told them not to worry, have fun, and if we communicate well, then we will win. And low and behold, the chat filled up with people having a good time, calling targets, informing each other about enemy movements, and pretty soon the enemy lone-wolfs were vaporized and we rolled them 12-2. At some point, I realized that the guy calling targets and having the best time was the pilot of one of our dead mechs, and he was observing, calling targets and directing fire to weakened components.

Next time you're on a string of bad matches, ask yourself, what have I been doing to improve teamwork? If the answer is sitting here waiting for a good team and just doing my best, then you are not part of the solution.

[Rogue Jedi]

I realy dislike calling matches ^{(my main problem is I dislike being predictable so if I am commanding I try things that I rarely see, now sometimes that works spectacularly, precisely because it has never been seen before, however more often I discover why that tactic is rarely used)}, but I enjoy and am good at working with the team, once the fight starts I am fine at calling targets and pointing out flanks or weekspots in the enemy line, if I am in a fast Mech, I will usualy be out in front searching for the enemy and will report back their position and usualy also put up a UAV in a position they are unlikely to spot.

as Razorfire said calling a drop is not about being an expert tactition ^{(unless you are calling a tournoment drop with a competitave unit)} the most important things are breaking the ice, to get people talking and offering sugestions to the team.

[Nightbird]

The only player in common in all your matchs is you... L2P can be a factor but also picking good mechs and equiping them right is also a huge factor. My best mechs with over 100 matches have a WL ratio of around 10, average mechs around 2.5, and worst mechs <1, those are **** mechs lol)

[The Basilisk]

Dakota1000, on 01 March 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

Bad teams are pretty common. Most good players form up player made teams and drop in premade groups and just goof off in solo queue if they're alone.

If you're new you start in the lowest tier, so you're 100% guaranteed to have at least half the people in a match have no idea what they are doing, though they aren't often split equally between the teams so you'll see some steamrolls.

Anyway, if you want consistently good teams then you'll have to actually join a team so you'll consistently play with the same people on your side and can coordinate tactics. There's lots of groups looking for new members in the recruitment section of the forum.

Honestly I do not think that recommending the group queue to someone who seems to be pretty inexperienced himself is a good idea!
The only thing he will learn there is how to get rect faster and more thoroughly.

@OP: Your overall W/L is 0.81, your D/K 1.05 and your averange score 181
You don't play meds and lights (at least not on the current leaderboard)
You seem to perform better on Assaults than on heavys (W/L and score better on assaults) what leads to the assumption that you use armor and raw firepower rather than speed, agility and correct positioning for match performance and survival.

So what of this....
This says you are driving mechs wich should deliver crucial elements of a teams performance but don't.

So as the others say there are several factors at play that can quickly lead to the impression to be constantly on the "get beaten" side of the match.

Your W/L ratio says otherwise 0.81 with that few matches played is quite normal.
Please don't listen to some of the "pros" bragging about W/Ls hillariously far over 2 and stuff. Especialy when they fail to deliver any other kind of advise or usefull input, who knows what ppl who do nothing but like to bragg that way do to achieve that kind of stats.

So again your W/L is around 1 but you get the constant impression to be on the wrong boat.
Someone mentioned taking a lighter more mobile mech could be a solution....let others carry the responsibility....take an other role could too be a good advice.
Since brawling isn't exactly what happens atm in the lower tiers of the game and when nobody else does on your team you will simply get shoot to scrap at ranges without beeing of any use when you try to get in range on your own.
Further reevaluate your loadouts, metamechs is good for getting some ideas, but it won't tell you what you are best at nor does it reflect what will help you against the foes YOU are confronted with.
Remember mech configs only shine when compared to a certain meta, when you are underway outside meta land its absolutely possible they are no good.
High alpha builds are great in organized fights when both sides (especially your own side) are focusing enemys down through calling targets.
When your games are undisciplined brawls where friend and foe runns wild without targetinfo, UAVs and any battlefield awareness high alpha builds don't fare good due to simply getting swarmed by fast firing dps mechs.

So its down to this: Observe, analyse, adapt, repeat.

And yea...observing and analysing is better when you do it with someone to speak to ....so get into some TS and get someone to help you with improving on your and their observations.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Define good?

[Amatsukaze]

This is 1st & foremost a team game. A team of mediocre players working together is more then a match for a team of highly skilled players lone wolfing it. IMO a decent headset (one where you can be understood) is just as important as your mouse. There is no time to type out message once the shooting starts & the info wheel or whatever it is called is mostly useless. 1/2 the noobs spam it so speaking for myself I ignore them. Get a headset where you can communicate & then TALK to your teammates. It amazes me how many matches I am in where 1/2 or more of the team will have coms but not say anything during the match until they are dead & then want to rage because someone didn't do what they THOUGHT they should have done. You know, I got no sympathy for those peeps. TALK TO EACH OTHER! You don't even need to necessarily lead, just stay together & have one person call targets & everyone else focus fire. If you can get that much done I guarantee your wins will go up dramatically.

The Basilisk, on 02 March 2017 - 01:55 AM, said:

Please don't listen to some of the "pros" bragging about W/Ls hillariously far over 2 and stuff. Especialy when they fail to deliver any other kind of advise or usefull input, who knows what ppl who do nothing but like to bragg that way do to achieve that kind of stats.

I have wondered this very thing myself. When I play I am not looking for my own kills, I work towards the teams betterment & if I happen to score some kills along the way great. With that sort of playstyle I guess I assumed others did as well & wondered how some guys could amass these huge K/D numbers until recently.

A few days ago I made a drop into frozen city & we had one hell of a brawl going. Both teams pushed & it was bloody! I was like the 8th person to go down & when I popped into observer move low & behold I was looking through the windscreen of a Night Gyr that was at 97% armor (he probably got pooked once) & armed with 2 LB10X's. He was slowly walking towards what was left of the murder ball & then started shooting once he was in range. In the end he died too but he did so with 4 kills. I looked up his stats & he had a K/D of like 5-1.
I didn't say anything but I did mutter some unpleasant expletives. I am not going to tell anyone how to enjoy their game but that is just wrong. 1st if he had stayed with the group that tonnage & payload could have very well tipped the scales to our favor allowing us to win.

[HiAndromon]

Thanks for the tips guys, i buied a headset and my matches realy became better, i'm still learning but the basic i can do, calling LRM's and support realy helped me out, but i still call out my team based solely on myy own perspective.

About my own performance, while i'm not good player myself, i can say that i have 100 k ahead of my deaths all glad to my MAL-2P build that i came on my own, so i need improvement, but most of the time i do better than most assaults on my team, so i prefer that position over the fast, most mobile mechs, that i think are far more important than the charlie lance of heavys/assaults.

[Roc Ingersol]

The Basilisk, on 02 March 2017 - 01:55 AM, said:

Honestly I do not think that recommending the group queue to someone who seems to be pretty inexperienced himself is a good idea!
The only thing he will learn there is how to get rect faster and more thoroughly.

@OP: Your overall W/L is 0.81, your D/K 1.05 and your averange score 181
You don't play meds and lights (at least not on the current leaderboard)
You seem to perform better on Assaults than on heavys (W/L and score better on assaults) what leads to the assumption that you use armor and raw firepower rather than speed, agility and correct positioning for match performance and survival.

So what of this....
This says you are driving mechs wich should deliver crucial elements of a teams performance but don't.

So as the others say there are several factors at play that can quickly lead to the impression to be constantly on the &quot;get beaten&quot; side of the match.

Your W/L ratio says otherwise 0.81 with that few matches played is quite normal.
Please don't listen to some of the &quot;pros&quot; bragging about W/Ls hillariously far over 2 and stuff. Especialy when they fail to deliver any other kind of advise or usefull input, who knows what ppl who do nothing but like to bragg that way do to achieve that kind of stats.

So again your W/L is around 1 but you get the constant impression to be on the wrong boat.
Someone mentioned taking a lighter more mobile mech could be a solution....let others carry the responsibility....take an other role could too be a good advice.
Since brawling isn't exactly what happens atm in the lower tiers of the game and when nobody else does on your team you will simply get shoot to scrap at ranges without beeing of any use when you try to get in range on your own.
Further reevaluate your loadouts, metamechs is good for getting some ideas, but it won't tell you what you are best at nor does it reflect what will help you against the foes YOU are confronted with.
Remember mech configs only shine when compared to a certain meta, when you are underway outside meta land its absolutely possible they are no good.
High alpha builds are great in organized fights when both sides (especially your own side) are focusing enemys down through calling targets.
When your games are undisciplined brawls where friend and foe runns wild without targetinfo, UAVs and any battlefield awareness high alpha builds don't fare good due to simply getting swarmed by fast firing dps mechs.

So its down to this: Observe, analyse, adapt, repeat.

And yea...observing and analysing is better when you do it with someone to speak to ....so get into some TS and get someone to help you with improving on your and their observations.

You made good points. Where and how did you get those stats? Please.

[Bilbo]

Chuck E Finley, on 03 March 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

You made good points. Where and how did you get those stats? Please.

I imagine he got them from here:
https://mwomercs.com...le/leaderboards
Insert pilot name into search box on the bottom left or click on your own name on the bottom right.

[Roc Ingersol]

Thanks. Overlooked it I guess.

[- World Eater -]

Just had someone call me a noob for telling them this is a team game and not a normal shooter.

The lack of awareness, teamwork, and willful ignorance is starting to get infuriating.

[Rogue Jedi]

ThoseWhoFearTomorrow, on 04 March 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Just had someone call me a noob for telling them this is a team game and not a normal shooter.

The lack of awareness, teamwork, and willful ignorance is starting to get infuriating.

if that is the case you were talking to a new player of an id10t.

6 people working as a team are likely to win against 12 people doing their own thing.

[Jables McBarty]

HiAndromon, on 01 March 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

14 matchs, only two good teams, this hurts brawler build even more than long range meta.

I just saw you in a match a couple hours ago.

I'm tier 2, so if you're tier 5, that means you're probably experiencing a lot of unbalanced or mixed-skill matches.

EDIT: Grammar.

Edited by Jables McBarty, 04 March 2017 - 10:44 AM.