196 replies to this topic

[Oberost]

All I can say is that PGI is going full "Energy Draw" once again...

Edited by Oberost, 03 March 2017 - 03:05 AM.

[Gagis]

WolvesX, on 02 March 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

I understand you guys, but what would be your solution then to balance a Dragon with an Mad Dog (or with an Rifleman) if you don't want quirks?

I'm not even convinced that all mechs need to be competitive, as long as they have some niche of their own to fill.

Most underperforming mechs could use a few non-canon hardpoints at least.

[Stone Wall]

WolvesX, on 02 March 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

I understand you guys, but what would be your solution then to balance a Dragon with an Mad Dog (or with an Rifleman) if you don't want quirks?

You don't balance the Mechs. All Mechs are different. You can't balance them. This isn't Mario Kart where Toad is super fast and Bowser doesn't get knocked around.

Is PGI trying to balance all Mechs so people have more buying options? That might be the issue.

[WolvesX]

Stone Wall, on 03 March 2017 - 04:23 AM, said:

You don't balance the Mechs. All Mechs are different. You can't balance them. This isn't Mario Kart where Toad is super fast and Bowser doesn't get knocked around.

Is PGI trying to balance all Mechs so people have more buying options? That might be the issue.

By your logic, there would only be like 8 mechs in the game, most of them clan, because it would make no rational sence to play any other.

Gagis, on 03 March 2017 - 03:15 AM, said:

I'm not even convinced that all mechs need to be competitive, as long as they have some niche of their own to fill.

Most underperforming mechs could use a few non-canon hardpoints at least.

Stone Wall, on 03 March 2017 - 04:23 AM, said:

You don't balance the Mechs. All Mechs are different. You can't balance them. This isn't Mario Kart where Toad is super fast and Bowser doesn't get knocked around.

Is PGI trying to balance all Mechs so people have more buying options? That might be the issue.

Thank you for explaining your reasoning though!

I like that.

kapusta11, on 02 March 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

Removal of quirks is nothing else but IS nerf. Yeah I get it, quirks + skill trees = tons of bonuses and you have to compensate BUT not when clans get buffed by new skill trees.

So true. Balance.

[WolvesX]

That is very curious, so many players think that there shouldn't be balance.

I honestly didn't expect that. From my point of view, game assets need to be balanced to work well. I hate unbalanced games, as I hate unbalanced matches, but if many players are fine with unbalance, that explains A LOT.

Edited by WolvesX, 03 March 2017 - 05:14 AM.

[Kmieciu]

WolvesX, on 03 March 2017 - 05:03 AM, said:

but if many players are fine with unbalance, that explains A LOT.

There are many players that like to pad their ego and stats by using overpowered mechs. They want that "single player mechwarrior" experience where they alone destroy a whole battalion of enemy mechs with ease. This is how Mechwarrior 2,3 and 4 was designed. It is called "Power Fantasy" . For example, MECH2 was so easy, you could complete the whole game using a 20-ton Firemoth.

I remeber when Kodiak-3 was released there were some people who swore it was fine & balanced.
With structure quirks, mobility quirks and the ablilty to double tap 4xUAC10 for 80 damage burst with 0 penalty.

Edited by Kmieciu, 03 March 2017 - 05:36 AM.

[DovisKhan]

WolvesX, on 02 March 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

I don't understand that, could you please explain it more simple.

What does "Pepperidge Farm 'Members." mean?

Does " 'member " mean remember?

It's a meme


Pepperidge farm is an occasional meme in 9gag

Member is a word coined by South Park

[Acehilator]

Pretty mindblowing that almost nobody cares this, or actively supports this.

"Get rid of quirks NAOW!!!!" (doesn't care that you screw over dozens of mechs in the process). Wut?

And the worst part is that quirks were in really good place a year ago. Before the nerf hammer fell on IS mechs three times in a row. Thinking about this is SO annoying. Damnit. WTB game developer with a clue.

[Kmieciu]

Acehilator, on 03 March 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

"Get rid of quirks NAOW!!!!"

We could get rid of quirks.... but then we would have to actually balance IS vs Clan weapons and IS vs Clan equipment (XL engines, endo, ferro, dhs)

[Oberost]

Acehilator, on 03 March 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

Pretty mindblowing that almost nobody cares this, or actively supports this.

"Get rid of quirks NAOW!!!!" (doesn't care that you screw over dozens of mechs in the process). Wut?

And the worst part is that quirks were in really good place a year ago. Before the nerf hammer fell on IS mechs three times in a row. Thinking about this is SO annoying. Damnit. WTB game developer with a clue.

Yes, it seems that nobody at PGI have any ******* idea about their own game...

Kmieciu, on 03 March 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

We could get rid of quirks.... but then we would have to actually balance IS vs Clan weapons and IS vs Clan equipment (XL engines, endo, ferro, dhs)

Too late. Almost 2 years and a half late...

[Horseman]

I said it before, but I will say it again: Skill trees should be rolled in gradually, first replacing the existing module system, only in second (and possible third) rounds replacing the pilot skills and chassis quirks. The chassis quirks should be exchanged not for generic modules but role-specific "specialty" trees (shared between some chassis, but not universal), eg a Hunchback 4G would probably get trees like "Brawler" and "Ballistic Specialist".

[WolvesX]

Acehilator, on 03 March 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

Pretty mindblowing that almost nobody cares this, or actively supports this.

"Get rid of quirks NAOW!!!!" (doesn't care that you screw over dozens of mechs in the process). Wut?

And the worst part is that quirks were in really good place a year ago. Before the nerf hammer fell on IS mechs three times in a row. Thinking about this is SO annoying. Damnit. WTB game developer with a clue.

On the other hand... 60%+ isn't that bad.

[C E Dwyer]

I seems pretty clear to me that some quirks removed on the TEST, I'll repeat it again, TEST server will have to go back on ,in a live enviroment.

People seem determined to rant about it like it's a done deal and are ignoring the fact its a TEST to see how viable things are and if it needs readjustment.

Nope I ain't sorry for using caps

[Acehilator]

Cathy, on 03 March 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

I seems pretty clear to me that some quirks removed on the TEST, I'll repeat it again, TEST server will have to go back on ,in a live enviroment.

People seem determined to rant about it like it's a done deal and are ignoring the fact its a TEST to see how viable things are and if it needs readjustment.

Nope I ain't sorry for using caps

And you REALLY think that PGI would revert a change nobody talks about? This thread is pretty much the only one active about this topic, and even if there are 2-3 others, that would not be NEARLY enough to give PGI a hint.

I ain't sorry for using caps either

[oldradagast]

cazidin, on 02 March 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

'Member when the community hated quirks and wanted them gone?

Pepperidge Farm 'Members.

Keep in mind most people wanted more substantial improvements to balance than the quirks. Also, people were often not fans of specific types of quirks, such as nerfing PPC speed and then adding huge speed quirks for PPC's onto a few mechs, making them the only viable PPC carriers in the game.

You'd have a hard time finding anyone who honestly thought all mechs were remotely equally playable without quirks, or that some quirks, such as durability buffs to balance out horrible hitboxes, were a bad idea.

[oldradagast]

Kmieciu, on 03 March 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

There are many players that like to pad their ego and stats by using overpowered mechs. They want that "single player mechwarrior" experience where they alone destroy a whole battalion of enemy mechs with ease. This is how Mechwarrior 2,3 and 4 was designed. It is called "Power Fantasy" . For example, MECH2 was so easy, you could complete the whole game using a 20-ton Firemoth.

Exactly. There's always a certain percentage of the population with selfish and short-sighted motives in mind. For example, I sadly suspect many of the people who support the horrible mobility nerfs on the PTS that basically kill lights and mediums are probably looking forward to fearing nothing now in their KDK-3 while casually killing "stupid noobs" that brought anything under a heavy mech with their dual Gauss + dual PPC's spam.

Gagis, on 03 March 2017 - 03:15 AM, said:

I'm not even convinced that all mechs need to be competitive, as long as they have some niche of their own to fill.

Most underperforming mechs could use a few non-canon hardpoints at least.

Is PGi going to refund me all my money and XP for all the now worthless mechs I own because "to heck with balance?" I doubt it. You can't do stuff like that in a game that involves grinding and expect to have a customer base afterwards.

[WolvesX]

I fear this goes live... and many mechs will be unplayable.

[Stone Wall]

Acehilator, on 03 March 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

WTB game developer with a clue.

WTB, hah like it's an ARPG game online. oh wait it might become that.

[Acehilator]

Stone Wall, on 04 March 2017 - 04:29 AM, said:

WTB, hah like it's an ARPG game online. oh wait it might become that.

This might be a language thing, I have no idea what you mean?

[Currant]

WolvesX, on 02 March 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Can we agree on that taking away quirks to "balance" an universal change is a bad thing?

You've cherry picked a few examples from that whole data set to misrepresent your point. And as a whole, removal of chassis specific quirks is a good thing as it will allow for more experimentation with skills for different builds.

The current iteration of the new skill tree isn't perfect, but it is a step in the right direction.