53 replies to this topic

[TLBFestus]

This whole thing, in different incarnations, has been going on for years now. PGI steps into a big pile of horse apples and the community rages initially, but eventually the fires burn down and smolder, and the game continues to exist. Honestly, I'm not surprised by the reactions, but I am surprised that it's become a cycle that most everyone recognizes but accepts. How can this be good for the game?

While many claim that having a more or less stagnant population base means that the game is "successful", I find it worrisome.

Without a large enough base of players the game is always in doubt. Without a steady influx of new blood, you risk milking the whales too often and they turn their back on you. With no significant influx of newer whales, that is not a positive indicator.

Of course I'm assuming that the new guys aren't replacing the old spenders, and maybe they are, but I find it hard to believe that the "new bunch" are as spend crazy as the old battletech grognards.

PGI has made several mis-steps and the game has somehow still bumbled alone, but it's got to get you wondering when that "last straw" breaks the camels (read:whales) backs, doesn't it? All I'm hoping for is that they don't need this game to thrive in order to finish the SP Mechwarrior game they've announced.

Will this time, in conjunction with HBS beta starting shortly, hurt the game more than before? Can PGI respond to valid criticism fast enough, something they've rarely shown any interest in or ability to do unless things get dire?

Will there be an MWO equivalent to "Brexit", a "Mechxit" so to say? Let's hear from the rose colored optimists and the dour bitter-vets one more time!

Just to be clear on my position;

Not a fan of the devs, however the fact that they haven't planted permanently already is justification to hope that miracles do happen.

Tired and burnout on the repetitive game play, and just hanging around hoping that they finish the SP game so that I don't have to watch things like a Developer of a game regularly find ways to insult or bewilder the people who put money in his pocket.

My long term goal for this game? SP comes out and never having to deal with this horrible FTP model again.

[Bishop Steiner]

In short.

I doubt it. Such has been claimed, almost constantly, by the same double dozen worthies, for most of the last 4 years. In fact, if some of them would finally make good on their threat, and leave, it might actualyl improve the general community morale.

But for the most part? Some will go, some will stay, some will adapt, some will ***** and moan.

Is it ideal? Nope. But all the melodrama in the world isn't going to make the sky fall any faster.

*shrugs*

I guess if folks are going to exit, they are going to exit. PGI needs to stop worrying about pleasing certain voices, and just pick a path and push through. Either it will succeed, or it will fail. Regrdless, it's better than having 20 different hands from the community on the rudder, all who "know better", most of whom have no track record of any sort to prove it... and even those that do, all seem to be wanting to turn the ship in 20 different directions.

[Alistair Winter]

Well, it's been 4+ years since this game hit open beta. It's going to keep losing players slowly, as it as been for some time, but I'm not predicting any sudden exodus of players. I imagine it's going to stay alive long enough for MW5 to be released, giving PGI a lot of cash that they can invest to make MWO2 / MW5:Online.

As long as MWO can survive for that long, as long as they can keep milking the whales until they're safe across the other side.... mission accomplished.

EDIT: Kudos for the name though.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 12 March 2017 - 01:45 PM.

[Bogus]

Mechxit is definitely going to be a thing, but it will be less because of the skill tree and more because of HBS Battletech and PGI's own upcoming MW5. Those were the games that the old timers wanted in the first place.

MWO is in a similar situation as Eve Online: the only show in town for a badly under-served market that's about to face some serious, possibly crippling, competition from new and established sources. I agree that PGI has done admirably for being their first 'real' game, and their willingness to revive a dead franchise must not be overlooked. Much of the same can be said of CCP, too. But they both made a number of strategic choices that nobody truly liked, and which simmered for many years before exploding into kind of a big deal once other outlets for players' interest came about. Dollars to donuts most of the MWO player base doesn't truly want robot Counterstrike any more than Eve players want Internet Spaceships; it's all about Battletech and general sci-fi, respectively. The one plot twist here is that PGI will be its own lightning rod, and arguably saw MWO as a means to an end as much as the player base does. CCP is in a tougher spot; if they're smart they'll come back with a story-rich single player RPG. In any case, it'll be an interesting two years for both companies.

[Koruthaiolos]

I'm hoping that the plan is to keep MWO as the online counterpart to the single player game. Hopefully it will mean a revival in the franchise, with MWO, MW:5 and Battletech by HBS forming some kind of perfect storm of games bringing the universe to a whole new generation of players whose minds have been rotted by the likes of CoD.

But I've always been an optimist.

[Y E O N N E]

Raasul, on 12 March 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

I'm hoping that the plan is to keep MWO as the online counterpart to the single player game. Hopefully it will mean a revival in the franchise, with MWO, MW:5 and Battletech by HBS forming some kind of perfect storm of games bringing the universe to a whole new generation of players whose minds have been rotted by the likes of CoD.

But I've always been an optimist.

While I am old enough to have played the older games, I am part of the new generation since MWO is the first MW game I have played.

You know what turns me off the most? Even more than PGI's flubs? The entrenched, die-hard, old-timer fans who absolutely will not tolerate any changes to the setting, fluff, or infrastructure and only begrudgingly tolerate changes to the aesthetic.

I hate the old, heritage/legacy stuff. It's poorly made. I'm not interested in hanging around if that is going to continue to get peddled and I doubt many other newcomers will, either. I enjoy the spirit of the franchise, but it needs work.

[Koruthaiolos]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 March 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

While I am old enough to have played the older games, I am part of the new generation since MWO is the first MW game I have played.

You know what turns me off the most? Even more than PGI's flubs? The entrenched, die-hard, old-timer fans who absolutely will not tolerate any changes to the setting, fluff, or infrastructure and only begrudgingly tolerate changes to the aesthetic.

I hate the old, heritage/legacy stuff. It's poorly made. I'm not interested in hanging around if that is going to continue to get peddled and I doubt many other newcomers will, either. I enjoy the spirit of the franchise, but it needs work.

REBOOT?!

I am looking forward to the reimagined Power Ranges for sure!

[MechaBattler]

This stands to be A worse hit to the whale population in my opinion. A c-bill cost to mechs that already should be mastered. Is rather specifically detrimental to people with large collections. And these people tend to be whales or just hard working collectors. Their frustration is understandable. But so is Russ trying to balance it with the influx of c-bills that stand to come form modules.

[Bishop Steiner]

You know... Star Wars used some really lazy stereotypes... I find their allusions to WWII germany Lazy and offensive. And Lightsabers? Silly. And cmon, TIE fighters? Make no sense. Toss them too.


What do you mean it's not Star Wars anymore? It still has Xwings!

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 March 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

You know... Star Wars used some really lazy stereotypes... I find their allusions to WWII germany Lazy and offensive. And Lightsabers? Silly. And cmon, TIE fighters? Make no sense. Toss them too.


What do you mean it's not Star Wars anymore? It still has Xwings!

I am really not sure where you were going with this comment. I think I know what you were attempting to illustrate, but I'll wait for you to tell me before I attempt to disassemble it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 March 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

I am really not sure where you were going with this comment. I think I know what you were attempting to illustrate, but I'll wait for you to tell me before I attempt to disassemble it.

basically, just taking your comment to opposite extreme from the one you are complaining about.

I find as many people who are FPS first, screw lore entirely, as there are Lore first, everything else second!

It's an IP. Lore is the foundation. Take that away, it's a generic shooter. That said, the IP is based in a TT game medium, and as such, doesn't necessarily work "as is".

So to be honest....both extremes are wrong.

But when one is dealing with an IP of any sort, be it Mechwarrior, or Star Wars or Transformers, lore should be the default compromise, and only intentionally changed when it needs to be. What you may consider "poorly made" is still what drew legions to said franchise in the first place. Thus, you don't just dismiss it out of hand either.

Or you end up with another generic shooter. Which we have plenty of.

And those with no "lore" or history, those you can change whatever the hell you want...because there is no lore.

(And of course, we also have enough bad IP games, be it from bad mechanics, or usually, bad story telling).

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 March 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

basically, just taking your comment to opposite extreme from the one you are complaining about.

I find as many people who are FPS first, screw lore entirely, as there are Lore first, everything else second!

It's an IP. Lore is the foundation. Take that away, it's a generic shooter. That said, the IP is based in a TT game medium, and as such, doesn't necessarily work "as is".

So to be honest....both extremes are wrong.

But when one is dealing with an IP of any sort, be it Mechwarrior, or Star Wars or Transformers, lore should be the default compromise, and only intentionally changed when it needs to be. What you may consider "poorly made" is still what drew legions to said franchise in the first place. Thus, you don't just dismiss it out of hand either.

Or you end up with another generic shooter. Which we have plenty of.

And those with no "lore" or history, those you can change whatever the hell you want...because there is no lore.

(And of course, we also have enough bad IP games, be it from bad mechanics, or usually, bad story telling).

Well, most of your beef is neither here nor there with regard to my comment. I'm not interested in abandoning lore or abandoning solid gameplay mechanics; hell, I wasn't even thinking of gameplay at all. What I want is to take the central pillars that define BattleTech and reforge it into a tighter, more coherent setting with a better-written and more compelling story (or set of stories) using the original BattleTech as inspiration (but not gospel).

I want somebody to do to BattleTech what Ron D. Moore & Co. did with Battlestar Galactica.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 March 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Well, most of your beef is neither here nor there with regard to my comment. I'm not interested in abandoning lore or abandoning solid gameplay mechanics; hell, I wasn't even thinking of gameplay at all. What I want is to take the central pillars that define BattleTech and reforge it into a tighter, more coherent setting with a better-written and more compelling story (or set of stories) using the original BattleTech as inspiration (but not gospel).

I want somebody to do to BattleTech what Ron D. Moore & Co. did with Battlestar Galactica.

So Sexbots, a full season lost to really boring West Wing in Space action, Robots with mommy issues... and a really limp finale?

(Sorry... loved the first season, was wholly unimpressed after).

I take your point, but again, what you may deem poorly written or expendable, another person may not, so who decides what stays? Again, things you find extraneous may be the very thing that drew someone else to it.

[Clownwarlord]

Nope not happening.

Yeah people over react this community does it the best, but give it a month or two after the patch and everyone goes back to meta stomping pugs.

[Carl Vickers]

Here's the way im thinking about this whole thing.

Is MWO going to lose players over this skill tree thing and a very badly timed and stupid joke made on a podcast, yes.

Is MWO going to lose me, not just yet. We had to wait a decade for a BT(based) game to come out with new graphics and all the shinies. Is it perfect, not by a long shot, is it the only BT game made in the last decade, yes.

Its going to be a pain skilling my mechs up for FP, yes, am I going to do it, yes, why, cause the is the ONLY BT game to be made in the last decade.

It is not perfect, like the company designing it, but it is what we have.

[Johnny Z]

MechaBattler, on 12 March 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

This stands to be A worse hit to the whale population in my opinion. A c-bill cost to mechs that already should be mastered. Is rather specifically detrimental to people with large collections. And these people tend to be whales or just hard working collectors. Their frustration is understandable. But so is Russ trying to balance it with the influx of c-bills that stand to come form modules.

I hope your not serious. No real player is making a big deal about this. Unless they are bored.

I am trying to decide if the big drama being made is to give the skill tree attention or to actually get players to quit.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 March 2017 - 03:40 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Johnny Z, on 12 March 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

I hope your not serious. No real player is making a big deal about this. Unless they are bored.

I am trying to decide if the big drama being made is to give the skill tree attention or to actually get players to quit.

Im suprised you didnt call hax on the skill tree.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 12 March 2017 - 03:42 PM.

[DjPush]

I just bought all three of the new hero assault mechs... Sure, I have some issues with this game. However, that doesn't mean I hate it or wish to see it fail. I would rather put my money into it and keep playing.

[oldradagast]

Clownwarlord, on 12 March 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

Nope not happening.

Yeah people over react this community does it the best, but give it a month or two after the patch and everyone goes back to meta stomping pugs.

But will they be spending money?

Yes, lots of people will stick around, max out the handful of meta-mechs that they can afford to max out and let the rest rot... OK, fine. But PGI doesn't make any money off of some guy who buys a KDK-3 with cbills and basically plays nothing else, ever, because that's all he needs to stomp "stupid whining PUGS" all day.

So, you're an average player looking at your mech garage March 21st. You can't afford to fully level-up most of your mechs given the current quoted prices. Some of them you like to swap builds on regularly - well now that'll cost you, so you're even less interested in leveling them past a few basic skills. Oh, and then a bunch of your mechs are now useless after the nerfs. Maybe you should sell them to fund the few mechs you still like. Maybe you shouldn't, because PGI could change everything - again - a month or two later. Maybe you could go off and play something else that feels more like a game and less like doing your taxes.

Where in all this "brilliant change to the game" is there any incentive for anyone to BUY anything after this goes live? Or, are we just going to assume everyone is so easily led astray that they'll just abandon 90% of their current mechs and gladly fork over the cash when PGI releases New Tech? If so, that's still not condoning the skill maze, but rather PGI's ability to milk whales and people's ability to forget the lessons of the recent past.

Edited by oldradagast, 12 March 2017 - 03:49 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Carl Vickers, on 12 March 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

Im suprised you didnt call hax on the skill tree.

You seem upset. What another one of your friends lose an account? Or you this time?