24 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

It means mechs will feel more clumsy and sluggish, which will lead to awkward crashing into buildings and frustration during battle. Oh, and you will die faster. If you thought TTK was low now, its going to get lower.

I've warmed up to engine de-coupling, but I can't get on board with the wholesale reduction of agility across the board.

[oldradagast]

Agreed.

Making mechs difficult to pilot and less able to escape damage will just reduce TTK, encourage more hiding in general and jump-sniping in particular, and reduce the overall fun in the game... unless there's some masochist population segment of which I'm not aware that likes blundering into buildings and getting shot to pieces when they can't reverse in time after going around the wrong corner.

Additionally, even if the percentage speed nerf is the same across the board, this mobility and speed reduction will have catastrophic effects on the survivability of light and medium mechs... and those mechs are already hanging by a thread these days. So, yeah... let's do something to further reduce the number of viable mechs in the game.

Ugh... utter lunacy.

Edited by oldradagast, 03 March 2017 - 06:03 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Across the board? Definitely not. But I think it's the perfect way to deal with the top heavy mechs in the game.

I do think that turn rate and torso twisting are more useful parameters to look at than acceleration and deceleration. Bad turn rate and torso twisting is bad for brawling, but bad acceleration and deceleration is just... bad for absolutely everything, whether you're brawling or hill humping.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Not necessarily true, sure heavies and assaults can't twist damage as well, but lights and medium mech TTK will go up because they can twist much better by comparison. I'm completely fine with this change, and I'm sure people will change their opinions once they see better combat between weight classes.

Edited by Gentleman Reaper, 03 March 2017 - 06:12 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

It would be better to adjust things in the system we have now. Make say a kodiak a bit less agile and a dire a bit more agile. Make some heavies a bit less agile and some mediums a bit more agile. The engine decoupling as to many bad side effects to how builds are done.

[Y E O N N E]

Gentleman Reaper, on 03 March 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Not necessarily true, sure heavies and assaults can't twist damage as well, but lights and medium mech TTK will go up because they can twist much better by comparison.

Doesn't matter They are now compelled to run in more predictable patterns and the damage they receive even over multiple components is proportionally greater. Like, before the PTS update today, you could not use that Locust to juke shots. I know this because that was actually even worse than a Mastered Locust was back in 2014, and you couldn't use it to juke shots back then if your opponent was any good. The turning circle was also way too wide and thus easy to track.

[Bogus]

XX Sulla XX, on 03 March 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

It would be better to adjust things in the system we have now. Make say a kodiak a bit less agile and a dire a bit more agile. Make some heavies a bit less agile and some mediums a bit more agile. The engine decoupling as to many bad side effects to how builds are done.

That might work for clans, but we're still left with the issue that the meta lords have thrown out all the logical IS builds in favor of big engines and small guns, to better pop in and out of cover because agility. Decoupling is good, but it definitely needs tweaking before it's ready for the big time.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 March 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

Doesn't matter They are now compelled to run in more predictable patterns and the damage they receive even over multiple components is proportionally greater. Like, before the PTS update today, you could not use that Locust to juke shots. I know this because that was actually even worse than a Mastered Locust was back in 2014, and you couldn't use it to juke shots back then if your opponent was any good. The turning circle was also way too wide and thus easy to track.

The turning radius is barely lower than on live (at least on my locust) and heavier mechs having more difficulty placing shots means they can't act on that as much.

[Y E O N N E]

Gentleman Reaper, on 03 March 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

The turning radius is barely lower than on live (at least on my locust) and heavier mechs having more difficulty placing shots means they can't act on that as much.

Talking about back then and PTS2, not now. Now it's fine.

Heavier 'Mechs have no real noticeable change in ability to place shots from Live. Less ability to poke efficiently, certainly, but not track targets.

[Andi Nagasia]

XX Sulla XX, on 03 March 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

It would be better to adjust things in the system we have now. Make say a kodiak a bit less agile and a dire a bit more agile. Make some heavies a bit less agile and some mediums a bit more agile. The engine decoupling as to many bad side effects to how builds are done.

sadly the DWF is completely inferior to the KDK in every way now,
Accell / Decell / Turn / Turn Angle / Speed everything now, and it cant even get upgrades,

[Gentleman Reaper]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 March 2017 - 07:47 PM, said:

Talking about back then and PTS2, not now. Now it's fine.

Heavier 'Mechs have no real noticeable change in ability to place shots from Live. Less ability to poke efficiently, certainly, but not track targets.

Not the impression I'm getting, my Kodiaks and King Crab twist much slower now, although there are a few exceptions like my Zeus, which twists like a 65 ton mech. The mechs that relied on twist quirks still turn fast, but they need that advantage, at least the top-tier mechs will have more difficulty keeping target on lights.

Andi Nagasia, on 03 March 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

sadly the DWF is completely inferior to the KDK in every way now,
Accell / Decell / Turn / Turn Angle / Speed everything now, and it cant even get upgrades,

It's not as bad as before though, but yeah, DWFs need something over the Kodiaks, that why the de-coupled agility will make that easier now.

Edited by Gentleman Reaper, 03 March 2017 - 08:02 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 March 2017 - 05:35 PM, said:

It means mechs will feel more clumsy and sluggish, which will lead to awkward crashing into buildings and frustration during battle. Oh, and you will die faster. If you thought TTK was low now, its going to get lower.

I've warmed up to engine de-coupling, but I can't get on board with the wholesale reduction of agility across the board.

It means IS XL is a death sentence with absolutely no redeeming value and that CXL is just a flat free 50% tonnage boost on engine weight.

[Malrock]

Lights are feeling a bit overly strong right now in PTS 3.0. They are much harder to hit for both mediums and anything above medium. So far mediums feel pretty bad at the moment. Only the shadow cat so far seems decent.

[Drunk Canuck]

Bogus, on 03 March 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

That might work for clans, but we're still left with the issue that the meta lords have thrown out all the logical IS builds in favor of big engines and small guns, to better pop in and out of cover because agility. Decoupling is good, but it definitely needs tweaking before it's ready for the big time.

Better than standing behind a hill yelling at your teammates to hold locks while you lob missiles into a hill because your build is useless and stupid and you don't take any damage for the team.

Edited by Drunk Canuck, 05 March 2017 - 04:43 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 March 2017 - 05:35 PM, said:

It means mechs will feel more clumsy and sluggish, which will lead to awkward crashing into buildings and frustration during battle. Oh, and you will die faster. If you thought TTK was low now, its going to get lower.

I've warmed up to engine de-coupling, but I can't get on board with the wholesale reduction of agility across the board.

PGI's take on TTK:

"TTK is too low.

Let's decrease agility.

There, that'll fix TTK!"


Not to mention the fact that PGI announced that Assaults wouldn't be affected much and that only the "agile" Mechs such as Lights, Mediums, and agility-based Heavies (R.I.P. QKD and Dragon) would feel the effects severely. Ironically, Lights are the most underplayed weight class in the game. Mediums are only effective because of their agility; they don't have the armor to tank on the front lines and serve best as mobile strikers. Agile Heavies are grossly underrepresented since they typically lack the hitpoints and/or firepower to mix it up with powerful Heavies like the TBR, WHR, MAD, etc.

So, PGI is willfully nerfing the most underrepresented Mechs in the game for literally no reason, other than that some bean-counter noticed that the Mechs weren't "normalized."

[Koniks]

I'm ambivalent about decoupling engines in theory. But it requires the kind of thorough balance pass and testing that can't be pulled off in concert with the skill tree changes. That's evident from the unfortunate number of XML coding errors on mechs, never mind the difficulty in isolating the cause behind unbalanced effects.

[Malrock]

Nightmare1, on 05 March 2017 - 08:21 AM, said:

PGI's take on TTK:

"TTK is too low.

Let's decrease agility.

There, that'll fix TTK!"


Not to mention the fact that PGI announced that Assaults wouldn't be affected much and that only the "agile" Mechs such as Lights, Mediums, and agility-based Heavies (R.I.P. QKD and Dragon) would feel the effects severely. Ironically, Lights are the most underplayed weight class in the game. Mediums are only effective because of their agility; they don't have the armor to tank on the front lines and serve best as mobile strikers. Agile Heavies are grossly underrepresented since they typically lack the hitpoints and/or firepower to mix it up with powerful Heavies like the TBR, WHR, MAD, etc.

So, PGI is willfully nerfing the most underrepresented Mechs in the game for literally no reason, other than that some bean-counter noticed that the Mechs weren't "normalized."

You can stop worrying about lights. Lights seem way over tuned on the PTS 3.0. yes in 2.0 they were awful, but now on 3.0 they are extremely hard to hit by anything that is not a light. mediums on the other hand feel terrible, so much worse than before.

[Reno Blade]

Low turnrate if you are fast and higher turn rate if you are slow
+ Get damaged if your mech crashes into something

lets say weight (tons) x speed (kph) / 200 = dmg
that would give:
a 20t Locust at 170kph a = 17 dmg
a 50t Hunchback at 100kph = 25dmg
a 75t Timber at 90kph = 33.75dmg
a 100t Atlas at 55kph = 27.5dmg

then you would have to take care where you are running and don't run at 100% speed all the time.
yes, that would be more sim than arcade...

[Nightmare1]

Malrock, on 05 March 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

You can stop worrying about lights. Lights seem way over tuned on the PTS 3.0. yes in 2.0 they were awful, but now on 3.0 they are extremely hard to hit by anything that is not a light. mediums on the other hand feel terrible, so much worse than before.

I couldn't find a match, so I couldn't test that.

[Bud Crue]

"What lower agility means."

F**king Triggering...

I'll tell ya what "lower agility" means...it means that once again, after the June nerfs, after the July nerfs, after the nerfs associated with the PTS via the skills tree, and the skills tree itself, that once AGAIN my Quickdraws are being nerfed. THAT'S what "lower agility means".

It means a mediocre mech is being made worse. That a mediocre mech has now been nerfed more often and to a larger extent than ANY other mech in the game over the last year, including the Kodiak-3.

That is what "lower agility" means.