27 replies to this topic

[7VWIuV]

Quoting myself:

7VWIuV, on 25 February 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

Top Dog has a 60% acceleration and deceleration bonus quirk. Plus 15% more from skill points that makes a 75% bonus on top of the basic acceleration value. From the Mobility tree on the PTS page I can see the maximum I can get through the new skill system is 50%. That's 25% less acceleration. Top Dog also has a 45% bonus to turn speed that, along with skill points, goes to 50%. On the new system the maximum is 30%, close to half less the turn speed bonus. Torso speed gets a ridiculous 5% max bonus on the new system, the original was 30%. Now, can you explain to me how that is not less agile? But ok. Let's consider this is all fair, because Top Dog is OP (and it isn't, because it's a ******* hot mech) and PGI needs the nerf for balancing it. Then please tell me, what's the ******* point of buying it on this new system if I can have a much better brawling fit with the same skills on a non MC exclusive variant?

I just tested it on PTS and it's even worse than I realized first. Max acceleration, turn speed and torso speed bonus I can get on the new system is respectively 25%, 20% and 20%, down from 75%, 45% and 30% bonus. I see it retains some quirks for structure points, but this mech is useless for brawling with small lasers now, the only thing it can use its 9 energy hardpoints for. I own it for less than 2 months and it's already borked. I want my MC back.

[oldradagast]

This is only the beginning. The backlash against this skill maze lunacy is going to be huge if it goes live.

Unfortunately, PGI's logic is "Well, we nerfed everyone's mechs and made them all less fun to play and quicker to kill because of their lousy mobility, so you should be okay with it!"

That's the same logic as thinking it's "OK" to key somebody's car provided you keyed all the cars in the neighborhood - everyone's car has been damaged the same way, so it's all good, right?

[7VWIuV]

oldradagast, on 04 March 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

This is only the beginning. The backlash against this skill maze lunacy is going to be huge if it goes live.

Unfortunately, PGI's logic is "Well, we nerfed everyone's mechs and made them all less fun to play and quicker to kill because of their lousy mobility, so you should be okay with it!"

That's the same logic as thinking it's "OK" to key somebody's car provided you keyed all the cars in the neighborhood - everyone's car has been damaged the same way, so it's all good, right?

I haven't checked other mechs yet but I think It's worse with Top Dog because it requires these quirks to work. The only thing it can fit properly (not melting) on it's 9 energy hardpoints is small lasers and there's simply no way to use small lasers on a slow mech.

[Dee Eight]

PGI is under no obligation to refund players for things they bought and played with for months/years when the game mechanics change in the future.

[7VWIuV]

Dee Eight, on 04 March 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

PGI is under no obligation to refund players for things they bought and played with for months/years when the game mechanics change in the future.

Already been through that discussion. Under ToS they have no obligation of giving any satisfaction on any **** they do on their game, true. It doesn't mean they shouldn't.

Edited by 7VWIuV, 04 March 2017 - 07:27 AM.

[Outlaw]

And nobody reads the fine print that they post on all mech announcements. STATS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE!

You were warned, don't whine.

[7VWIuV]

Outlaw, on 04 March 2017 - 07:27 AM, said:

And nobody reads the fine print that they post on all mech announcements. STATS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE!

You were warned, don't whine.

Can you please screenshot that? I don't remember getting a warning when I bought this specific mech.

P.S.: getting tired of apple-polisher fanboys

Edited by 7VWIuV, 04 March 2017 - 07:31 AM.

[Outlaw]

Spoiler

While not specific to the Top Dog that is more or less a blanket statement that applies to everything they release.

I'm going to ignore your fanboy comment. I have been burned by them enough times that I think long and hard before i make any purchases. The fact that you bought within 2 months and know full well PGI's Track record for nerfing/buffing things, and then come on here to whine makes this all the more entertaining.

[7VWIuV]

M

Outlaw, on 04 March 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

While not specific to the Top Dog that is more or less a blanket statement that applies to everything they release.

I'm going to ignore your fanboy comment. I have been burned by them enough times that I think long and hard before i make any purchases. The fact that you bought within 2 months and know full well PGI's Track record for nerfing/buffing things, and then come on here to whine makes this all the more entertaining.

Your image isn't opening for some reason. Anyway, I don't know "full well PGI's Track record for nerfing/buffing things". I haven't played this game for years and I thought that after all this time it would be more stable. If it isn't then I, the player, am not the one who should be punished for it. This specific mech was released in 2015. I'd expect a nerf from a new mech, not fully tested is all game conditions, like Supernova, not a through and through played mech like the Top Dog.

Edited by 7VWIuV, 04 March 2017 - 08:12 AM.

[Outlaw]

Then you should have done some research before making the purchase, there is plenty of evidence throughout the patch notes and forum posts that they tweak the game constantly. Besides its an online multiplayer game they are going to be constantly tweaking the game, so not expecting changes is just being plain ignorant.

[7VWIuV]

Outlaw, on 04 March 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

Then you should have done some research before making the purchase, there is plenty of evidence throughout the patch notes and forum posts that they tweak the game constantly. Besides its an online multiplayer game they are going to be constantly tweaking the game, so not expecting changes is just being plain ignorant.

No, I shouldn't. If the mech properties are subject to change in a couple of months they should warn at the time of purchase. And yet I did some research anyway. Didn't realized by what I got: almost 2 year old unchanged mech, it would be nerfed so soon. You are the ignorant, dude. You said you've been burned yourself and yet here you are arguing defensively on a subject that impact you as well. Get a grip on it.

Edited by 7VWIuV, 04 March 2017 - 08:17 AM.

[oldradagast]

Outlaw, on 04 March 2017 - 07:27 AM, said:

And nobody reads the fine print that they post on all mech announcements. STATS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE!

You were warned, don't whine.

You're missing the point - nobody is disagreeing that changing the game to incomprehensible trash is within their legal rights. What we're basically saying is that the customers won't be happy, would get a refund if they could, and certainly won't be spending any more money on the game.

That's the point. Just because the fine print lets you legally spit in somebody's meal doesn't mean it's a good idea when you find all your customers disappear because of said actions.

[Amsro]

I'm sorry if you think MC variants should be better in any way to C-Bill variants.

What you are buying is;

Camo Pattern
%30 C-Bill Boost

That is all, no pay to win better variant.

Your precious Top Dog will not suddenly be garbage vs other mechs in the PTS. Did you actually play it or just stat browse on the PTS?

[Dee Eight]

For every "customer" threatening to stop spending money, they're 99 who won't share that opinion. The forums attract such a small percentage of players compared to the overall player pool that no amount of polling here will ever amount to more than a 1 or 2% representative sample of the overall player population. That's also one of the reasons why for even a 4x4 game on the PTS, where tiers and weight classes are completely ignored for matchmaking, at many times of the day its a 10 to 30 minute wait for a match.

[oldradagast]

Amsro, on 04 March 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

I'm sorry if you think MC variants should be better in any way to C-Bill variants.

That's not what he's saying. He said he spent money for a fun game experience, and now the game is being nerfed into assorted stumbling trash. Had he know that was going to happen, he wouldn't have spent money on the game. THAT is the point - the new skill maze is so bad that it is removing the fun from the game and leaving it an unbalanced pile of lunacy that is not going to attract customers.

Yes, PGI can legally wreck their own game if they want to. Yes, they can change all the mechs to whatever they want. Yes, pay to win is bad. And none of that is the point - they are making changes that are so bad that customers want their money back. Tell me how that's going to attract new customers when even the current ones want to leave?

Dee Eight, on 04 March 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

For every "customer" threatening to stop spending money, they're 99 who won't share that opinion.

Do you have any evidence of such a claim? Prove to me that 99% of the players like the trash on the PTS, or are we going to pretend that there's some sort of "silent majority" for which there is no evidence that loves the skill maze?

It amazes me that people don't get what the OP is saying and try to deflect it with nutty defenses, such as "PGI can legally wreck the mechs and the game" and "Uh, pay to win is bad!" and "Uh, I'm sure 99 of the people like the skill maze with no evidence to support my claims."

Read what he wrote. Get the message - the PTS skill maze is so bad that existing customers want their money back. That means it is an extremely bad business decision to implement it, particularly given the general lack of players, new or otherwise, this game suffers.

Edited by oldradagast, 04 March 2017 - 10:53 AM.

[KodiakGW]

OP, try respec and make a loadout for 2ERPPC with full velocity, and 6 Med Lasers. Max out Cool Run and Heat Containment. Forget unlocking any other weapon skill, their % per unlock are anemic.

But, I agree with you. Not going to be any kind of match for maxed Velocity and Gauss Charge Night Gyrs with the way things are now.

[Amsro]

oldradagast, on 04 March 2017 - 10:53 AM, said:

That's not what he's saying. He said he spent money for a fun game experience, and now the game is being nerfed into assorted stumbling trash. Had he know that was going to happen, he wouldn't have spent money on the game. THAT is the point - the new skill maze is so bad that it is removing the fun from the game and leaving it an unbalanced pile of lunacy that is not going to attract customers.

Yes, PGI can legally wreck their own game if they want to. Yes, they can change all the mechs to whatever they want. Yes, pay to win is bad. And none of that is the point - they are making changes that are so bad that customers want their money back. Tell me how that's going to attract new customers when even the current ones want to leave?



Do you have any evidence of such a claim? Prove to me that 99% of the players like the trash on the PTS, or are we going to pretend that there's some sort of "silent majority" for which there is no evidence that loves the skill maze?

It amazes me that people don't get what the OP is saying and try to deflect it with nutty defenses, such as "PGI can legally wreck the mechs and the game" and "Uh, pay to win is bad!" and "Uh, I'm sure 99 of the people like the skill maze with no evidence to support my claims."

Read what he wrote. Get the message - the PTS skill maze is so bad that existing customers want their money back. That means it is an extremely bad business decision to implement it, particularly given the general lack of players, new or otherwise, this game suffers.

Way to much drama and rage in this whole thread.

Do you know when and what will be patched into the live game? No?

Ok then how about test the game on the PTS and give feedback. Not complain about buying a mech. Everyone is having there mech nerfed. Literally ALL mechs.

[Baulven]

Dee Eight, on 04 March 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

For every "customer" threatening to stop spending money, they're 99 who won't share that opinion. The forums attract such a small percentage of players compared to the overall player pool that no amount of polling here will ever amount to more than a 1 or 2% representative sample of the overall player population. That's also one of the reasons why for even a 4x4 game on the PTS, where tiers and weight classes are completely ignored for matchmaking, at many times of the day its a 10 to 30 minute wait for a match.

From what I was told in the world of customer service less people speak up about not spending money for a variety of reasons instead of more. There is a formula top tier companies use that equates whatever kind of action complaint they get to how much business they would lose. Ranging from the least to most interactive (i.e. posting on the forums is quick and doesn't put effort on the poster so it is low, vs someone walking into their office to complain which is very high) it gives them an estimate on how many people are going to be against whatever action. That is directly from a guy that handles executive hiring for a fortune 500 company so I am pretty sure I can take his word for it.

That being said unless current paying customers pay more to make up for lost sales, or they somehow attract new spenders (not holding my breath there) that is lost revenue. The question is is does the company think that they will lose too much revenue.

[KodiakGW]

oldradagast, on 04 March 2017 - 10:53 AM, said:

Do you have any evidence of such a claim?

Ahhh...wait for it....

You are probably going to get the old "you have no proof otherwise" or "prove to me it is not what I claim." Ahhh...the age old maneuver of making somebody else do the work to prove you wrong when you make an unsubstantiated claim. Has happened to me a couple of time on these forums. Shows signs of a weak argument.

Then, after that, the circular logic and inflammatory rhetoric. Fun!

[Monkey Lover]

Amsro, on 04 March 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

I'm sorry if you think MC variants should be better in any way to C-Bill variants.

What you are buying is;

Camo Pattern
%30 C-Bill Boost

That is all, no pay to win better variant.

Your precious Top Dog will not suddenly be garbage vs other mechs in the PTS. Did you actually play it or just stat browse on the PTS?

To bad every hero (but the oxide) I own is worse than the cbill version .The 30% almost doesn't cover the lower score the POS mechs get.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 04 March 2017 - 11:32 AM.