41 replies to this topic

[DGTLDaemon]

OK, the reason why I'm making this poll is that this is the first time since I've started playing this game when I feel that I would quit and uninstall if the proposed changes went live. I mean, there's been a whole lot of stuff that PGI did to this game that I didn't like, but I always bit the bullet and kept playing. Even back in the Energy Draw PTS days, much as I disliked what I saw on the PTS, I would still keep playing if it went live. But now I'm looking at Skill Tree PTS2, and I'm appalled. It doesn't just fit into the "I don't like it" category, it's more like "roll it up and shove it" category. It's unplayable. I know it's work in progress, and it's too early to judge etc.etc., but still I wonder if there are other people here who feel the same way. So, a simple question: would you keep playing the game if PTS2 went live with no further changes, or would you leave?

Edited by DGTLDaemon, 07 March 2017 - 08:07 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

The poll is a bit limited, because it's just a simple binary of playing or not playing. What about people who play more than before, less than before, or people who take a break from the game?

Personally, I wouldn't uninstall, but I would definitely take a break from the game and wait for PGI to fix the skill system. I'm also worried that the decoupling of engines from mobility won't be enough to correct the weight class imbalance (I doubt light mechs and medium mechs will be as powerful as heavies and assaults, in terms of their ability to turn defeat into victory), but it's too hard to say just from testing grounds and a few 4v4 matches.

Anyway. Just based on the skill tree alone, I really don't have any burning desire to spend multiple hours distributing 91 skill points per mech, and potentially having to spend extra money as I go along and change my mind about the skill points. It sounds like an even more exhausting mini-game than Module Hunt.

[DGTLDaemon]

Alistair Winter, on 07 March 2017 - 01:01 AM, said:

The poll is a bit limited, because it's just a simple binary of playing or not playing. What about people who play more than before, less than before, or people who take a break from the game?

Yeah, I know, this is by design Essentially what I'm asking is this: are the proposed changes on the PTS bad enough to force you to quit the game? Everybody is welcome to leave their comments, though, this is not a poll-only topic

[chucklesMuch]

No, not unless playing became a chore instead of fun... so I'm willing to try what ever version goes live... and see if its still fun.

[Bud Crue]

Alistair Winter, on 07 March 2017 - 01:01 AM, said:

The poll is a bit limited, because it's just a simple binary of playing or not playing. What about people who play more than before, less than before, or people who take a break from the game?

Personally, I wouldn't uninstall, but I would definitely take a break from the game and wait for PGI to fix the skill system. I'm also worried that the decoupling of engines from mobility won't be enough to correct the weight class imbalance (I doubt light mechs and medium mechs will be as powerful as heavies and assaults, in terms of their ability to turn defeat into victory), but it's too hard to say just from testing grounds and a few 4v4 matches.

Anyway. Just based on the skill tree alone, I really don't have any burning desire to spend multiple hours distributing 91 skill points per mech, and potentially having to spend extra money as I go along and change my mind about the skill points. It sounds like an even more exhausting mini-game than Module Hunt.

This. Just the act of squirking out a mech is a labor. It isn't intuitive, it isn't fun. Its a chore. I suspect I will keep playing, but I will likely just squirk out a few favorites and not bother with the rest if the system goes live as is.

Moreover if the system goes live I will probably outright abandon mechs that have been particularly brutalized by the idiotic pre-nerfing that PGI has included with the skills tree. You want more diversity? This is not the way to get it.

I for one am not going to bother squrking out multiple Black Knights or Crabs when most of their variants are all now functionally identical. Nor will I bother with Grasshoppers other than the 5P and maybe the H. They are superior to the others and yet you nerfed the others. Why would I bother with them? Every class has literally dozens of mechs in this situation.

[banana peel]

Still adding a couple more options would give much more information, imo:
I would keep playing
I would reduce my playtime until fixes come
I would stop spending money
I would reduce my playtime and stop spending money
I would take a long break
I would quit the game

[Ruar]

I can't see playing with the current version of the skill tree. The problem I have is having to get skills I don't want, and the general nerf to mobility. I play medium mechs almost exclusively so the changes to mobility are mostly crippling. This means the game isn't fun for my play style.

There needs to be singular focus for what the skill tree is supposed to accomplish. Is it to reduce TTK? Is it to prevent boating? Is it to create a c-bill sink? Pick something and make that happen before making more adjustments. As it is too many things are happening at once and it's causing all of them to fail.

[Dee Eight]

I'm not going to quit just because short-sighted folks on a forum complain about the skill tree. Improvise, adapt and overcome.

[Dracol]

I'd actually play more. A good shack up of the meta always makes qp more interesting. Also, being able to have a large collection of mechs ready to go without looking for mods will probably get me playing CW again

[Ruar]

Dee Eight, on 07 March 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

I'm not going to quit just because short-sighted folks on a forum complain about the skill tree. Improvise, adapt and overcome.

You do realize the vast majority of people on this forum are not against the skill tree but are opposed to things like gated skills, cost to respec, and overall lack of compensation for multiple mechs.

Yes a shake up of the meta is a good thing and we'll all have to make adjustments to favorite builds, but that doesn't mean there is a need to make the skill tree painful.

A linear design with increased costs of skills will serve the same basic design as having web gating of identical costs. A linear design also has the benefit of making it easier for newer mech purchases to catch up, being simpler to understand for everyone, and being easier to adjust later as new content is added.

There is not a single reason to keep the web design other than it's the brain child of a dev who refuses to let go of their idea.

Respec costs are going to drive people away because it directly influences the decision to tinker with builds.


There are ways to implement this skill tree system that will make it fun to keep playing and will keep people interested in the game. Hopefully we see another round of testing after they take the feedback from this iteration to heart and make changes. However, if the current version were to go live then it's going to drive people away because it's not fun, it's confusing, and it's frustrating. Why would people keep playing a game that isn't fun anymore?

[D V Devnull]

@DGTLDaemon's Thread --

I've had enough time myself with studying videos and other information. Frankly, if this "New Skill Tree" system releases with anything less than 120 Skill Nodes allowed per Mech, regardless of weight class, I'll throw in the towel and finally quit MWO completely. I've seen how impossible it is to actually specialize a Mech, regardless of how many types of weapons that a person is carrying. Further, I've seen how unable anyone is to actually get a good setup that would be helpful to a team. If anything, the current limitation of 91 Skill Nodes only helps Meta-using Lunatics who don't think they need much, and others who would wish to eject Non-Meta players from MWO. I don't even mind the idea of having to take a few unnecessary nodes, if enough are allowed to overcome it being too penalizing. However, if PGI doesn't wake up to these mistakes which they're making, then this idea being shown in the PTS will be an extreme failure. Heck, I'm going to link to some of my additional thoughts, because I really don't feel like massive copypasta right now...

-> https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/245940-skill-tree-pts-ii/page__view__findpost__p__5632830
-> https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/246434-why-91-nodes/page__view__findpost__p__5639517
-> https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/246434-why-91-nodes/page__view__findpost__p__5640659

...and I have already done Wall-Of-Text more than once, which really shows how angry PGI's unfinished idea is currently making me. Plus, while I've been typing this, one other note of pain has come up...

Dee Eight, on 07 March 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

I'm not going to quit just because short-sighted folks on a forum complain about the skill tree. Improvise, adapt and overcome.

There's only so much improvising/adapting that a Non-Meta player can do. I've already tried about 30+ (or more... I lost count) times to figure out a path, using the available information. Each and every time, I've repeatedly found that it wasn't possible to make anything Non-Meta that was useful enough. I ended up concluding that I would have to give up on everything that didn't follow some "Cookie-Cutter Meta", switching to a play style that works totally against casual players (myself included... I'm not some "Hardcore Meta Lunatic") enjoying MWO, trying to relearn everything until I turned into a "Tier-tard *******", and ultimately quitting because I would therefore get killed repeatedly due to still not having enough Skill Nodes allocated to compensate for having a weak computer, a lack of natural intuition, and Non-"World Championship"-Class Reflexes. MWO has constantly seemed to me like a game where you either have battle instincts that cause you to be a full minute ahead of your opponent, or you're the dead guy getting run over... which is far unlike the old MechWarrior PC Games that were actually enjoyable.


~Mr. D. V. "And damnit... here I am doing ANOTHER Wall-Of-Text!!!" Devnull

[soapyfrog]

I would never spend money on this game again.

With costs as they stand and the way the skill tree works, I would probably just shelve it until they figure something else out. I would be very reluctant to spend any cbills or xp to actually use the new skill system.

[Acehilator]

Play half a dozen or so favourites (all but two of them Clanmechs, obviously). But not going to play much until the new tech hits. Mass Effect Andromeda is coming out soon, Battletech Beta too, and Dawn of War 3 next month.

If the new tech implementation is lacking (which it probably will), going to take a looooong hiatus.

[FunkyT]

I will absolutely keep playing.

To be honest, I'm curious on how these changes will impact the game. I see some fairly handy aspects in there, like having so many more useful module effects than you could have before (Radar Derp and Seismic Sensor ftw) and the possibility to make (probably wierd) specialized builds that are not what the meta does, but might actually excell in certain situations. I also see points I'm not so sure about, like taking most inherent quirks from IS mechs and giving already strong Clan mechs some new quirks. The system sure isn't perfect, but I think it's a step in the right direction and can be improved later, if need be.

And I kinda don't see why people are so freaked out about these useless nodes.
The way I see it, this is completely intentional.
From what I gathered from some of their posts, they don't want obvious, powerful skilltrees that just say "take me or derank to T5". They want kind of "give and take" scenarios, where getting the most out of something like the defensive tree requires you to spend a lot of points, potentially even on useless nodes.
If there were only good nodes in this skilltree, there would be no discussion if you should take it or not. By sprinkling useless nodes in there, the system will make you think twice before investing all those points into a few more %-points of defensive bonuses. So in my eyes, this is actually smart design.

After all, we can lament and discuss all we want on how this skilltree will totally destroy the game or things like these. But we can't know what will happen on launch. We can't possibly know how the meta will shift as a result of this, if it will get better, worse or not even change at all.
So let's just try to be patient and reflect on these changes in a non-biased fashion, when they hit the live servers, shall we?

[R Valentine]

Eh, I'd play for a little bit, but as soon as my reservoir of c-bills dries up I'd probably go and play something else. I have no interest in doing the additional grinding PGI thinks they have in store for me, and negative interest in buying new mechs if I can't even afford to skill up my current ones.

[C E Dwyer]

If they go live as they are, I will keep playing,but I will cancel my Javelins and the Resistance heroes I was tempted to buy will become a no sale.

Whether I continue playing once the new tech arrives is another matter, as I have zero confidence that P.G.I can ever deliver it without breaking the game further.

The pole really could have done with a keep playing but not support P.G.I with hard cash option

Edited by Cathy, 07 March 2017 - 07:53 AM.

[DGTLDaemon]

OK, due to popular demand, I've added two more options to the poll. 'Cause you know, I'm not PGI, I do actually try to listen to player feedback Enjoy

Edited by DGTLDaemon, 07 March 2017 - 08:16 AM.

[Skribs]

I don't want to have to relevel everything by farming CBills for months just to get back to a point where I bave the same number of Mechs combat ready.

[Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS]

I will take a six month or so break from the game. Then I would see where the new tech comes in to play to see if I would extend that break.

No way in hell I will grind out a bunch of stuff now only to have to re-do it all after the new tech comes out with the cost of re-spec now in place.

After that I will look at streams and builds to see what works with the new system, then build optimized mechs for that.

I will still not play as much because I like to try all sorts of new things out, and that goes away with the re-spec costs.

So TLDR:

Long break likely followed by another break after new tech, then much more limited play from then on.

[Cy Mitchell]

I would actually play much more. I have been on a bit of a break since November when they first started talking about a big Skill Tree revision. The game felt to me like it was in limbo and I was looking forward to some new and interesting aspects to the game play. I have played minimal time since then and lately have only experimented on PTS. Once they get the Skill Tree and the new Incursion mode into the game I expect to play much more.

Edited by Rampage, 07 March 2017 - 10:50 AM.