108 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

Hey fellow Mechwarriors!

Just wanted to gather some voices on this. As you have read in the PDFs and you compare the performance on the test server with the live, most IS mechs are nerfed into the ground.

Will you still play IS mechs after the next patch?

I for one like a challenge, I like to use inferior stuff and try my best with it. So I think I will still play with IS mechs despite their obvious disadvantages, maybe not in FP.

In faction play I think it will be suicidal to play IS stuff and I will just refrain from playing FP & scouting or change my contract.

On the other hand, FP would be really immersive in the way that you can experiance the feelings of IS pilots during the Clam invasion.

So what do you think? Do you like a challage? Will you still fight for the IS?

Spoiler

Kmieciu, on 05 March 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

Look how they nerfed the poor Cicada-3C. The 40 ton mech with a single energy and 4 ballistic hardpoints.

It lost 25% total ERPPC heat generation quirk.
It lost 25% ballistic cooldown,
It lost 25% ballistic velocity.
It lost 70% accel/decel quirks and got the same poor agility as the other Cicadas.

Compare that to Viper-C. 40 ton mech with 5 energy and 4 ballistic hardpoints and jump jets.
It lost nothing.
In fact (accroding to quirks sheet) it still has 40% accel/decel quirks. Plus, it's got better base agility than the Cicada.


The Viper-C was already a better mech than the Cicada-3C. But the Cicada was fun and unique.
After these changes, I will never use it again.

Edited by WolvesX, 07 March 2017 - 10:30 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

I already stopped, the PTS changes will make me stop more...

Needless to say, nerfing the weak faction is not a good move for the health of the game.

[chucklesMuch]

Will wait and see what actually goes live... but maybe I'll just play clan heavies till the dust settles...

[Snazzy Dragon]

Some of the only IS mechs (at this point, I think it is less appropriate to call them mechs and more appropriate to call them mehs) that I play are mechs like the Centurion D and Cicada 2B, the Warhammers, and Battlemasters and occasionally an Atlas if I feel like playing pinata. The only reason most of these mechs are useful is because somewhere, their quirks are very strong-- the Battlemasters and Warhammers have decently high mounts and good mobility quirks-- the Centurion-D has that awesome shotgun of doom (it's one of the few Cents I put an XL in-- that lb10 with SRMs is one of the deadliest loadouts in this game) and the Cicada 2B has an amazing cooldown speed and -20% heat generation. Sometimes I play with the Raven 4X because of the 30% laser duration quirk as well.

Under the PTS, all of these mechs got nerfed into mehs. The skill tree's overall global quirk nerfs ruin whatever little niche IS mechs have in quick play across the board. I see no reason to play IS mehs, because I'd rather play with actual mechs.

[Karl Marlow]

With a couple of exceptions I like how IS mechs look over clan ones.

[El Bandito]

I'll just spam Clan mechs, and since it coincides with MAD-IIC's release, our unit will be spamming Clan mechs as well. Riding the boat is probably the easiest way to force PGI to do something about the imbalance.

[Alistair Winter]

I wasn't really worried about it until someone pointed out the poor combination of nerfing heavy & assault mech torso twisting speed and having insta-death XL engines.

On top of that PGI seems to have effectively nerfed baseline torso twist for several IS light mechs, forcing light mechs to always upgrade the mobility branch in order to slightly improve survivability.

Unless PGI does something, the skill tree + mobility decoupling patch could easily make Clan heavies extremely powerful relative to all other mechs. Hard to conceive of such a situation in MWO, right?

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

Actual i have a tough fight in me right now.
I really want the Cataphracthero(for my IS Account), from the looks and feel it will greatly profit from the stuff(loved it on the pts).
And now the decision is between getting the hero for real bucks, getting mc and wait for sale or getting the mastery bundle for prem time and more cataphracts(still already have the intresting ones) ... it is difficult.

(Besides "big" IS dakka will be a thing and that combined with mechs that have nice armor/structure quirks(more profit from % skill ) and the longer ttk will give some IS mechs new live ... maybe even a golden time (we ll see, the 4o4 isnt really telling how everything will turn out with 12players each side).)

Edit: Forgot to mention that the ac20 urbanmech will become "viable"(strip extra armor gained for more ammo and feel the joy of more ammo per ton) ... (note that viable is more a synonym for fun in this case )

Edited by Dark Wooki33 IIC, 07 March 2017 - 04:34 AM.

[Unquietemu]

It's funny because I just started buying IS mechs and now I'm not sure if it was worth it. I do think that IS mechs will see a power spike when new tech is relased but IS pilots have a long time to wait until then... It feels like IS are getting pre-nerfed before their stronger weapons are introduced, this probably isn't the case but I could understand it if it were.

[AnTi90d]

All I own are IS mechs.

I'm finding it very difficult to even play the game, now, with the skill tree BS hanging over our heads, knowing that my entire roster of mechs is getting nerfed to hell and back.

I had seven entire uninterrupted hours, last night, in which I could have booted up MWO and played to my heart's content. I just didn't feel like it and ended up playing other games that aren't preparing to directly screw me and all of my cash and time-bought purchases over.

PGI really knows how to hang a cloud of doom over it's players' heads. Before this it was Energy Draw.. before that it was turning FP into QP-with-dropdecks.. before that they banned my favorite Twitch streamer for a single forum post.. before that it was turning IS light mechs into fat mediums without bumping up their armor.. before that it was turning a good and functional minimap into something with half of the information and half of the legibility.. before that it was nerfing my newly cash-purchased mechs that weren't nearly the strongest in their weight bracket..

IDK.. I might continue to play, depending on what comes out of the tech jump and what PGI decides to do with the next version of the PTS.. but I damn sure won't give them another single dime, ever again.

[Bishop Steiner]

Honestly, I feel reports of IS Mechs death to be greatly exaggerated (like mos things, and in many cases, probably intentionally so, with an agenda), but yes, I will continue to play them regardless.

After near 20 hours in the PTS, I'm actually looking forward to the various ways I can now customize my mechs further, and seeing how that stands up to what I've already tagged as the generic meta nodes of choice. While there are certainly individual mechs and values that make me scratch my head, what I see on the whole, honestly has me thinking that either most people realyl didn't take the time to truly experiment and test things, or it's just the usual response to anything that slows down the quest to the one true meta build (how dare I not be able to simply check box exactly the path to maximum benefits on top of the advantages already given by boating! PGI is bad!, blah blah blah). And there is always just the usual human resistance to change.

There is stuff about the PTS and change to the skill tree that is definitely not going to go well upon implementation. That is par for course with any change...you just can't really test without a full live environment , for all the variables. But my biggest concern is for the NPE, as I have seen no indication that PGI has thought thru adding tutorials, etc, for this. This could potentially blow up in PGIs face over NP retention.

Bittervets? Eh, they've been complaining, usually the same complaints, in new packaging, for 4 years, and oddly most of the usual suspects are still here, still complaining, so that will be what that will be.

But whatever. Hell people get butthurt and complain when PGI gives them free mechs, so of course they will do so here, also.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 March 2017 - 05:48 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Unquietemu, on 07 March 2017 - 04:46 AM, said:

It's funny because I just started buying IS mechs and now I'm not sure if it was worth it. I do think that IS mechs will see a power spike when new tech is relased but IS pilots have a long time to wait until then... It feels like IS are getting pre-nerfed before their stronger weapons are introduced, this probably isn't the case but I could understand it if it were.

Not really sure I'm seeing this. Mind you, some mech/weapon combos are taking a hit, not denying it (goodbye jackhammer autocannon on my centurion and hunchback... I will miss ye!), but it appears, especially in Heavier classes, that the Clan Mechs are taking a mobility nerf, thanks in part to the engine desync. In comparison, many of the heavier IS chassis still have decent mobility without the Mobility Nodes. Which means outside of some builds (poptarts and of course the now very non agile KDK3, in PTS) many Clan MEchs will have to invest in Mobility, whereas many of my IS mechs have not (not claiming this is 100% across the board, either). This frees up the IS mechs to invest more freely in Weapon Nodes, for instance.

There are certainly outliers, and this in and of itself, is not going to be a cure all, but it's one factor that seems to be ignored a fair bit.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 March 2017 - 06:20 AM.

[Acehilator]

Awesome-8R will survive the Nerfhammer, Shadowhawk-2H not sure yet, can't really test them in the 4vs4 environment. Kintaro Golden Boy as a LRM5 spammer will be dead in any case. All others will pretty much stay in their stables too. Marauder IICs, Supernovas, Dakka Direwolf it is. Going to try out the faster Clan Omnis on the PTS (Linebacker, Gargoyle, Executioner).

[Snowhawk]

[silberfuchs]

I can live with the skill tree if it goes live even in it's current form, but as has been stated in multiple other threads nerfing the IS mechs in an attempt to lower overall quirks makes no sense, further enhancing Clan.

Just return the quirks (including the few Clan mechs that were affected) and the skill tree is OK.

[PyckenZot]

I can already state that my BJ-3 will still be able to be the annoying jumpy PPC sniper it currently is. I even get better heat on the PTS than on live.

For the rest, I just refer to what Bishop said.

Edited by PyckenZot, 07 March 2017 - 07:28 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Why should I stop, if they turn out as bad as the doomsayers say, quirks will be put back.

[Bud Crue]

Cathy, on 07 March 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

Why should I stop, if they turn out as bad as the doomsayers say, quirks will be put back.

I hope you're right. I have no reason to think you are, but I hope you are right.

Ya know, the hand wringing on this has been going on for about a week now over quirks, nerfs, and other related issues of the skills tree...

"...HEY! DEVS! Ya you guys who the white knights claim follow the forums and listen to our every concern...now would be a good time to comment on this and address some of the fears here. There are at least three active threads where multiple long term players are asserting their intention to leave the game over this stuff. Probably just blowing smoke sure, but still maybe a word or two on this might not be a bad idea to give the community some reason to believe that you have logical reasons for what you are doing and what those reasons may be? A little communication goes a long way. Just sayin."

[Barkem Squirrel]

The big thing will be the mobility vs (firepower vs survivability vs other stuff in the skill trees.)

I can see some lights just being a pain in the well butt to Assaults without mobility tree quirks. Even some mediums.

Armor/structure along with firepower boosts are nice, but the mobility has proven to be one of the biggest things in MWO no mater if it was during the pre-ECM days to now.

Here is one nightmare for some - A locust with most of the mobility quirks along with the armor and structure. then add a little bit of laser weapon and sensor quirks. A tank locust. Wait we can do that with the URBIE too!

[Mawai]

Keep in mind that every mech you play in the PTS will feel nerfed. They all have reduced mobility. They all won't turn as fast or respond as quickly. The key question is the balance over tonnage and weight class and especially between IS and clans.

Clans have been more powerful than IS since they were introduced. The best mechs in the game are clan mechs. Do the skill tree changes and changes to baseline mech capability make this balance worse or better?

I have seen a lot of theory crafting and if PGI goes ahead, removes quirks, and uses a common skill tree without adjusting baseline mech performance or giving IS mechs free skill points then there could very well be an overwhelming balance issue similar to when the clans were first introduced. At the moment, folks are running the PTS and offering feedback. We don't know whether PGI is reading the feedback and also doing their own statistical analyses on mech performance (they won't be as good as on line due to the low population in the PTS).

The bottom line for me is that I will wait and see. MWO needs changes like this and it NEEDS better balance between clans and IS and over the mech line ups on both sides. This update is a great chance to improve the game and I'd rather not see it wasted.

That said, there are folks out there who don't agree that clans have an edge in the current game and who will be angry if clan mech effectiveness is reduced relative to the IS. There are also folks who will play their mechs, find that they feel worse than they did before no matter how they compare to other mechs and will also be upset. There isn't an easy fix that will make everyone feel good unfortunately. If I thought PGI was actually paying attention, there are lots of ideas that have been suggested by the community that might address some of these issues .. but the impression I have from comments made by PGI is that the island inhabitants can't generally be heard over the roar of the sea between the island and PGI headquarters.

P.S. One comment from players in the PTS that has me concerned is that the mechs feel much better after being skilled up. The old skill tree was substantially nerfed to put new and old players on a more even footing. If the new skill tree results in large performance differences between skilled and unskilled mechs then PGI is just re-introducing a problem that they have had to address at least once already.

Edited by Mawai, 07 March 2017 - 08:34 AM.