108 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

xe N on, on 07 March 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

NO! It's clearly a skill thing. Playing clans you are simply more skilled.

'member when Russ said Clan pilot needed to be better to perform at the Clan invasion? I never took anything he said seriously after.

[Acehilator]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 March 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Seriously the oldest and most ridiculous claim. Clanners all cry that IS too stronk, IS whines PGI hates them, Clans whine Russ said he hates the clans, etc.......

Looking at PGIs track record regarding patches and IS quirk nerfs the last year or so, I am strongly inclined to agree with Novakaines assessment. Exactly none of the nerfs were necessary, and yet they happened... and not only once, but what? Three times in a row? Dafuq?

/edit: need to form sentences that make sense

Edited by Acehilator, 07 March 2017 - 11:55 AM.

[The Errant]

Bud Crue, on 07 March 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

Don't reserve judgement. Get on the PTS and give them your judgment now. If everyone waits to tell them what they think after the fact, its too late. We will get nerfed mechs and the skills tree as is. Don't wait. The system as proposed is on the PTS for a reason. Get in there and tear it apart and -at least in theory- tell PGI how to make it better, but don't reserve judgement; they NEED your judgement.

That is a wise statement.

[Bishop Steiner]

Acehilator, on 07 March 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

Looking at PGIs track record regarding patches and IS quirk nerfs the last year or so, I am strongly inclined to agree with Novakaines assessment. Exactly none of the nerfs were necessary, and yet they happened... and not only once, but what? Three times in a row? Dafuq?

/edit: need to form sentences that make sense

yes and there haven't been several Clan NErfs at the same time, like to UACs, etc? The issue is ascribing to some sort of premeditated malice what is much more likely summed up by incompetence.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 March 2017 - 12:01 PM.

[0bsidion]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 March 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Seriously the oldest and most ridiculous claim. Clanners all cry that IS too stronk, IS whines PGI hates them, Clans whine Russ said he hates the clans, etc.......

It wouldn't be MWO forums without all the hyperbole being casually tossed around. There are quite a few changes being made, I think you're right that we're not going to get a really good feel for things until it goes live and we've got maybe a month or two under our belts with the new systems.

[Duke Nedo]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 March 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

yes and there haven't been several Clan NErfs at the same time, like to UACs, etc? The issue is ascribing to some sort of premeditated malice what is much more likely summed up by incompetence.

They did nerf warhammers but left night gyrs and kdk-3 untouched... that's all I need to know.

[Bishop Steiner]

Duke Nedo, on 07 March 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

They did nerf warhammers but left night gyrs and kdk-3 untouched... that's all I need to know.

Lol.... whm was the tier 0 meta mech in heavies. And KDK3 (in the process all but making UAC10 and 20 useless for all clan mechs, and nerfing the hell out of every other KDK in the process) has been attempted to be nerfed multiple times. I think you've been hanging out with Johnny Z or Mudhut with all these conspiracies.

9 times out of 10, unfair nerf means "My factions broke as **** meta mech was brought back in line", so PGI hates me and my faction.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 March 2017 - 12:13 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Duke Nedo, on 07 March 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

They did nerf warhammers but left night gyrs and kdk-3 untouched... that's all I need to know.

Honestly I don't see this as a "they nerfed IS mechs" (51 pages) or they "nerfed clan mechs" (5 pages) thing. I see this exclusively as a "they nerfed under performing mechs" thing. The Adder B needed its lbx quirks removed? No. Nor did the St Ive's Blues need its beam reduction quirk removed. Nerfing bad mechs will not be good for either tech, nor for overall balance nor for their claimed goals of increasing diversity and giving players more choice.

[Novakaine]

Bud Crue, on 07 March 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

Don't reserve judgement. Get on the PTS and give them your judgment now. If everyone waits to tell them what they think after the fact, its too late. We will get nerfed mechs and the skills tree as is. Don't wait. The system as proposed is on the PTS for a reason. Get in there and tear it apart and -at least in theory- tell PGI how to make it better, but don't reserve judgement; they NEED your judgement.

Listen to Bud, take a moment and get on the PTS and see for yourselves.
The WTF moment will be quite amazing.
Don't let PGI do this in the usual vacuum.

[Heavenward]

In answer to the OP, i will still play IS mechs 'IF' the changes go live. I enjoy certain IS mechs because i like the designs no modifications to their performance change my mind in that regard.

Also its my understanding that our feedback already resulted in changes to the PTS build, who's to say that wont happen again. So get on the PTS and leave Constructive feedback.

[Appogee]

Just remember folks...

We're talking about developers who nerfed the Warhammer but did nothing to the Night Gyr.

Any of your arguments that involve logic, commonsense and the patently obvious clearly have zero bearing on what is to come.

Edited by Appogee, 07 March 2017 - 12:23 PM.

[R Valentine]

Appogee, on 07 March 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

Just remember folks...

We're talking about developers who nerfed the Warhammer but did nothing to the Night Gyr.

Any of your arguments that involve logic, commonsense and the patently obvious clearly have zero bearing on what is to come.

Lol

[Acehilator]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 March 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

yes and there haven't been several Clan NErfs at the same time, like to UACs, etc? The issue is ascribing to some sort of premeditated malice what is much more likely summed up by incompetence.

The Clan nerfs are nowhere near the magnitude of what happened to the IS... like, not even remotely.

And I was typing stuff that would have gotten me banned probably, but Appogee already summed it up well enough.

[Bishop Steiner]

Novakaine, on 07 March 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

Listen to Bud, take a moment and get on the PTS and see for yourselves.
The WTF moment will be quite amazing.
Don't let PGI do this in the usual vacuum.

Then do yourselves another favor....
after that WTF Moment?

Stay On. Test. Test a lot of things. Take two identical mechs, skill one, leave the other unskilled. Try different combos. Why? Because the longer you are on there, the more one actually tries stuff? The less WTF it becomes. Are there things that are still just not "right". Yes. But there is a lot more, in premise that actually is making sense, even if in many cases the specific values may be in question.

Again, what I see is people comparing robots in a vacuum. OH MY GOD!!! This is less so and so than it is live! Without actually testing enough other things to realize.... wait a tick... pretty much EVERYTHING has taken a bit of a performance hit. BOTH factions. Oh, and thnaks to engine Desync... the Clan Heavies aren't all more agile than the IS ones anymore.

Meaning what? That outside of poptarts and turrets.... Clanners probably will on average spend more points on Mobility than the equivalent IS will have to Little things like that really add up. But one doesn't get to start seeing the shades of grey and such unless one is willing to test a lot, with an open mind.

Straight Boats aren't really coming out on average, more powerful (a few cases they may, others less so), but a lot of dual weapon class IS mechs can realyl benefit. I built my CPLT-C1(F) with IIRC no Mobility Nodes. It has a 260std and JJs, and had little issue tracking faster mechs. It wasn't perfect, but it was fine. Survival Buffs on CPLTs are all but worthless, so I skipped those... and since it's a Missile Support unit, no real need to boost the JJs. But I boosted Operations, Maxed the Laser and Missile Tree Nodes, with heavy investment into Sensors and some Auxiliary.... and it was rocking like a boss.

Conversely, my Jester and K2 are a little more Skirmish/Brawly, so they did get Mobility Nodes, and it did make for an interesting contrast.

The point? Most people really seem to be going into it looking at how to replicate the current Meta, etc.... when the whole point is to try to reduce the gap between Meta and Non. I've been running both IS and Clan and it is hard to overcome the inherent Clan Advantages of their XL, Endo, Ferro and DHS, and undoubtedly values will have to be juggled. But this insistence that PGI has some kind of crusade against IS Players (or Clan Ones, which yes, a goodly number of them claim) is just pretty dang dumb, TBH.

Has PGI missed a chance to push Role Warfare by using this system? Sadly, yes, though it does actually provide more diversity than I initially thought.... but it's not some Clan MasterRace plan at the expense of IS Players... since last I checked PGI needs to keep selling IS Gundams, too.

Heavenward, on 07 March 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

In answer to the OP, i will still play IS mechs 'IF' the changes go live. I enjoy certain IS mechs because i like the designs no modifications to their performance change my mind in that regard.

Also its my understanding that our feedback already resulted in changes to the PTS build, who's to say that wont happen again. So get on the PTS and leave Constructive feedback.

We've had at least 2 changes, between the first PTS last month, and then after a few days in this one. Well tested, respectfully published reviews and critiques are still the most likely to be heard. Not a guarantee they will make changes according to what you want, but we have seen them responding, to this, to the new batch of Heroes, etc. How long this receptive ear will last, IDK, but if people just assume all is wrong, and take other peoples word for stuff...then they realyl have no room to complain later.

[Marius Romanis]

wrong forum op.

Pretty sure it will be same **** new week, pretty sure I saw somewhere the IS skill tree bonus's are bigger than the clan ones ?

[C E Dwyer]

Bud Crue, on 07 March 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Perhaps, but with the promise of mechs with NEW TECH! And the emphasis of late on clan mechs, I think they can go a heck of a lot longer than a month before the nostalgia junkies start holding back $. I think we are seeing the creation of legacy tech 1.0 if the skills tree goes live as is.

Yeah your probably right, it won't matter how broken the game becomes as long as people get their new shiny

[Bishop Steiner]

Acehilator, on 07 March 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

The Clan nerfs are nowhere near the magnitude of what happened to the IS... like, not even remotely.

And I was typing stuff that would have gotten me banned probably, but Appogee already summed it up well enough.

-Jaunuary

Clan XL Engines

• The Cooling Efficiency Penalty from Side Torso destruction has been increased to 40% (from 20%).

https://static.mwome...an%20Quirks.pdf

vs




yes...earth shatteringly biased toward the Clans favor.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 March 2017 - 12:52 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

From my testing on the PTS, the only 'mechs I have enjoyed so far are Shadow Hawks and Marauder IICs. I will have a *lot* of free 'mechbays soon

[R Valentine]

CadoAzazel, on 07 March 2017 - 12:43 PM, said:

wrong forum op.

Pretty sure it will be same **** new week, pretty sure I saw somewhere the IS skill tree bonus's are bigger than the clan ones ?

Oh rly? Where would that be?

[Duke Nedo]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 March 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

Lol.... whm was the tier 0 meta mech in heavies. And KDK3 (in the process all but making UAC10 and 20 useless for all clan mechs, and nerfing the hell out of every other KDK in the process) has been attempted to be nerfed multiple times. I think you've been hanging out with Johnny Z or Mudhut with all these conspiracies.

9 times out of 10, unfair nerf means "My factions broke as **** meta mech was brought back in line", so PGI hates me and my faction.

Lol all you want, you didn't get it. They nerfed the top performing IS mech but left the top performing clan mechs untouched. They did this at a time when the NGR/KDK-3 was already a bit better that the whammys. There's balance logic for you.

Changes like that has led up to the situation where clans have the best mech in every class: KDK-3, MAD-IIc, NGR, TBR, HBK-IIc, JR7-IIc, ACH.

There is no conspiracy, just lousy balancing.

I am merc, I don't whine for my IS mechs. I whine because I want more playable competitive mechs. Dropping in Night Gyrs has been old for a while now.