58 replies to this topic

[Dogstar]

I've noticed that there's an inherent unfairness in the proposed refund for modules.

Currently skills cost nothing and modules are expensive.

With the new system skills are expensive and modules are cheap (in comparison)

Yet PGI are giving large sums of c-bills to players who have ground matches for modules but none to those who bought mechs to skill up instead.

This is UNFAIR

Either everyone should get some money or everyone should get none.

So PGI must either give us some c-bills based on the skills already unlocked on each mech as well as a refund for modules OR they must not give a refund for modules.

Edited by Dogstar, 08 March 2017 - 02:06 AM.

[Danjo San]

Haha... It's not unfair, you simply invested in the wrong stock.

[Nesutizale]

The point is that people spend CBills on these modules. Now they are taken away, not compensating for that is unfair, as these people also had to put in some work to get these.

[50 50]

Wow.
So you have gone from saying the skills cost too much because you don't have a lot of modules and therefore won't get a big refund.
To now saying, no one should get a refund because you don't have a lot of modules and therefore won't get a big refund.

So the initial choice was to earn the c-bills and either:
a ) fully kit out a mech with structure, engine and armour and also put on the modules for it.
or
b ) fully kit out a mech with structure, engine and armour and then buy a new mech and repeat the process.

In example ( a ) we have players that felt the mech was completed when it had modules equipped.
In example ( b ) we have players that like to collect every mech and would rather spend c-bills on getting another mech.

You want to now punish players that decided to spend c-bills on modules instead of getting extra mechs because they made that choice where as at present it was a choice that meant you had more XP worked into more mechs but will not get a big refund because you made a choice to buy more mechs instead.

I'll meet you halfway though.
No c-bill cost on skills.
Full refund for modules.

That way you can still splurge out on more mechs and people who did not buy more mechs can now catch up to how many mechs you have.

[Dogstar]

Quote

I'll meet you halfway though.
No c-bill cost on skills.
Full refund for modules.

Yeah I'm trying to make a point here about how things are unfair with the current iteration, especially as I see a lot of module rich players saying there's nothing wrong with the system. I'm playing devil's advocate here and showing how unfair it would be for players who bought modules to get nothing back. I'd much rather skills were cost free although I'd be happy to see an increasing cost as you buy more provided the maximum cost per mech end up lesser.

It's still an important point though - why should some players be penalised under the new system? This is a game, not the stock market, you shouldn't suffer just because you decided to invest your hard earned c-bills (or cold hard cash!) one way rather than another

Edited by Dogstar, 08 March 2017 - 05:19 AM.

[FunkyT]

Dogstar, on 08 March 2017 - 05:16 AM, said:

It's still an important point though - why should some players be penalised under the new system? This is a game, not the stock market, you shouldn't suffer just because you decided to invest your hard earned c-bills (or cold hard cash!) one way rather than another

Well, you're not actually getting penalised. You don't loose anything.
You get your full EXP back, and that's it. Because that's all you invested in the first place. Just skilling your mech didn't cost you anything.

Those however, who invested into modules (be it through pre-ordering packs or just buying them ingame) would be penalised if their past investments into the game (playtime or even actual money) would in no way be compensated. That would be unfair.

Other than that, the new systems cost hits everyone equally. No matter if you only have very few mechs and funds, or if you have dozens of mechs and lots of funds. In both cases, most of those funds (if not all) would just straight up vanish into the skill system.

[Dogstar]

I am being penalised - I literally have to grind thousands of matches to pay for the skill tree because I have almost no modules.

So I'm stuck with unskilled mechs playing against a ton of players who have skilled mechs, and not just for a few matches - for thousands of matches

It's exactly like being a new player but with more frustration because I have to wait even longer to get back to where I am now

Edited by Dogstar, 08 March 2017 - 06:13 AM.

[Danjo San]

Dogstar, on 08 March 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

I am being penalised - I literally have to grind thousands of matches to pay for the skill tree because I have almost no modules.

So I'm stuck with unskilled mechs playing against a ton of players who have skilled mechs, and not just for a few matches - for thousands of matches

It's exactly like being a new player but with more frustration because I have to wait even longer to get back to where I am now

dude ... how long do you think players were stuck grinding to fit all of their mastered mechs with modules?
Talking about being penalised. They spent hours grinding and saving to buy the modules and now you propose to take them away because you don't get a big refund? hahaha... your sense of justice is so far out of whack.
you told us how many mechs you bought with dollars:
24 Resistance 1+2
30 Archer, Rifleman,Marauder,Warhammer
8 P-Hawks
7 Cyclops
42 from Mastery Bundles
3 Urbies
= 114 Mechs
So not one single C-Bill you earned went to purchasing new Mechs. You own 9 Modules, it's probably safe to assume you got some of those from pre-order bonuses.
Where did all your earnings go to? at 1500 Matches last year you have 218.400.000 C-Bills lying around somewhere...

[Dogstar]

@Danjo All my mechs are IS, which you would have noticed of you read the list, thus they almost all require XL engines at 4-6 million a go, plus Endo, and DHS before I even buy any weapons.

200 million does not go far when every mech needs at least 5 million spent on it and with the new skill tree costs the price to upgrade each mech is now twice that

Which means that buying mechs - and thus supporting this Free-To-Play game to continue - is gooing to be out of the window for some time

Increased c-bill costs is directly equivalent to a loss of players, but PGI are far too f*cking stupid and egotistical to understand basic game design

and we'll see soon enough - either PGI will back out the costs in a few months once they've lost a ton of income, or they'll carry on regardless and you can laugh at me for being a doomsayer

but the final possibility is that they lose players hand over fist, their company goes bust, and both MWO and MW5 are out of the picture for another decade - and then we're all f*cked

Edited by Dogstar, 08 March 2017 - 07:39 AM.

[Danjo San]

Dogstar, on 08 March 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

@Danjo All my mechs are IS, which you would have noticed of you read the list, thus they almost all require XL engines at 4-6 million a go, plus Endo, and DHS before I even buy any weapons.

All my Mechs are IS too... been a Liao Loyalist since March 2014.
My Purchase history is similar to yours however my hangar is filled a little higher than yours, aaaand I had to buy ENDO, Ferro, XL's and Doubles as well ... Trust me I know.
However, I also know how much you earn by playing and how much ends up in savings over time. You've been a member since Feb2012? You should have racked up more than enough. I have done so in 3 years, I'd assume the 5 you've been around should be sufficient enough to acquire more than just 9 modules. and a handful engines.
also, you get loads of cash playing CW, esp. climbing the ranks. I reached level 20 close to the end of phase 2 and am still hanging with Liao by now I could be halfway up some other loyalists ladder easy.

[-MAC-]

Good for you. You have managed to win the internet for the most abject stupidity posted today.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Dogstar, on 08 March 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

I am being penalised - I literally have to grind thousands of matches to pay for the skill tree because I have almost no modules.

So I'm stuck with unskilled mechs playing against a ton of players who have skilled mechs, and not just for a few matches - for thousands of matches

It's exactly like being a new player but with more frustration because I have to wait even longer to get back to where I am now

I have good news for you! You are in tier 3 (despite playing since 2012)...so you will be grinding those "thousands of matches" (doubt it will take that long) against plenty of new players who will be driving plenty unskilled mechs as well. Man, those c-bills should just roll in...Problem solved!

The real problem will actually come for the tier 1 guys who buy a new mech (again, good news you spent your c-bills on those already). They will be at a disadvantage by having to get more xp to fully level up that new mech...as they will consistently be up against better opponents. I'm guessing you won't hear them whining though...

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 08 March 2017 - 10:19 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Dogstar, on 08 March 2017 - 02:05 AM, said:

This is UNFAIR

No, it's not.

You know they actually paid all those cbills in the first place? No one is getting any cbills back that they haven't actually spent.

So you bought mechs instead, you get to keep those mechs you bought right?

One thing that I could see is allowing players to sell mechs back at full price for a week or so after this drops, that way players who bought mechs rather than modules can get their cbills refunded too if they wish to.

[Dogstar]

> I'd assume the 5 you've been around
One year, just because I registered a interest in 2012 doesn't mean I'm playing 1500 matches a year every year.

>doubt it will take that long
It literally ranges from 1000-4000 matches depending on how many skill points I want to get for each of 100+ mechs

>No, it's not.
You're right in that no one is losing c-bills, which is good thing, but the cost for learning these skills is prohibitive for many players

>You have managed to win the internet for the most abject stupidity posted today
So you haven't understood that I'm arguing an absurd point in order to show how broken the system is?

Players who have earned lots of c-bills and invested them in modules are going to do fine in the new system, players who have made other choices get screwed over. It rewards f2p grinders and punishes people who paid money for mechs. This is a good way to displease a decent chunk of the player base and entirely discourage any new players who aren't prepared to grind away in a game that is, frankly, only for Battletech fans.

Edited by Dogstar, 08 March 2017 - 11:30 AM.

[R Valentine]

No one is getting a good deal with this new system. We are all screwed. I highly doubt the people who bought modules bought enough of them to make up for the massive c-bill debt they're going to be in for all the mechs they now need to pay to reskill. Yes, players with bigger stables are more screwed, but we're not happy about that either. No one likes the proposed system. Ask for the system to change, not for your neighbor to be more screwed than you.

[-MAC-]

Dogstar, on 08 March 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

>You have managed to win the internet for the most abject stupidity posted today
So you haven't understood that I'm arguing an absurd point in order to show how broken the system is?

Players who have earned lots of c-bills and invested them in modules are going to do fine in the new system, players who have made other choices get screwed over. It rewards f2p grinders and punishes people who paid money for mechs. This is a good way to displease a decent chunk of the player base and entirely discourage any new players who aren't prepared to grind away in a game that is, frankly, only for Battletech fans.

Wow just wow.

Try and follow. If someone bought a module, since they are being removed (that means taken away) they are going to be refunded for what they paid for.

Mechs you have paid for are not being taken away so there is no reason for a refund. It is literally that simple. No one is getting 'punished' and what you saying is not only unrelated, it is incredibly dumb.

So thankfully your absolute fail at logic will never be taken seriously but thank you for giving me someone to laugh at. I feel as if I actually got to witness you licking a window. Priceless.

Edited by Mechwarrior2470942, 08 March 2017 - 01:33 PM.

[Skribs]

C-Bills should not be part of the skill-up process, but if they remove modules there is definitely a need for a refund.

Let the people who spent a lot on modules buy more engines, more Mechs, or be comfortable swapping back and forth between upgrades.

[C E Dwyer]

I have mastered pretty much every mech in the game and have lots of modules.

Does that mean I get a fridge magnet ? or historical XP or something, maybe a team point.

[50 50]

Dogstar, on 08 March 2017 - 05:16 AM, said:

Yeah I'm trying to make a point here about how things are unfair with the current iteration, especially as I see a lot of module rich players saying there's nothing wrong with the system. I'm playing devil's advocate here and showing how unfair it would be for players who bought modules to get nothing back. I'd much rather skills were cost free although I'd be happy to see an increasing cost as you buy more provided the maximum cost per mech end up lesser.

It's still an important point though - why should some players be penalised under the new system? This is a game, not the stock market, you shouldn't suffer just because you decided to invest your hard earned c-bills (or cold hard cash!) one way rather than another

Fair enough

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Kiran Yagami, on 08 March 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

No one is getting a good deal with this new system. We are all screwed. I highly doubt the people who bought modules bought enough of them to make up for the massive c-bill debt they're going to be in for all the mechs they now need to pay to reskill. Yes, players with bigger stables are more screwed, but we're not happy about that either. No one likes the proposed system. Ask for the system to change, not for your neighbor to be more screwed than you.

I have made close to about 800 million cbills. I have about 25 mechs, mostly clan omnimechs which don't require updates, but they require quite an stock of weapons and some extra omnipods too. I have sold few mechs after levelling them and two initials which I couldn't make to work. Most if not all my mechs are from sales. I have 40 million cbills at hand.

I expect I have a about 400-500 cbills in modules. I would need to level on new system maybe 16-20 mechs. I have some freebiews I've not intested in playing, even one with cbill bonus. Or even two I think. I also have a set of 3 Jenner IICs and Adders and hardly will need them all, as they are not all mastered yet I haven't bothered to deside which to keep. I slightly regret selling two of my three Mist Lynx as sometimes it would be fun to have another config ready. But I could anytime get it back if I really wanted. I also have two mastered Dires and Mad Dogs and I don't miss the third ones I've sold, I sold them as I had use for the cbills.



No one doesn't get a good deal from this new system? Wrong. People who don't have a lot of mechs get a good deal. New and fairly recent players. Me, I'm hardly in that category anymore, but I will still benefit from getting new mechs easier to full spec, and new mechs are intresting.
They can fully level mechs easier and possibly cheaper. I think that lowers the bar of buying new mechs. Levelling with new system is not so front loaded investment as with current system. You play and get XP and cbills, and gradually improve the mech. With current system even if you sell off the extra 2 variants, you still need to invest all cbills most likely at the same time, at the beginning of getting that mech, as you are so much better off buying mechs when they are on sale, and sales are too random.

Can't really be bothered to count it, I think people who want to get and level clan omnimechs will be best off, because they have the least reason to buy several variants with without the system of 3, due to IS mechs not requiring so much cbills if you only want to level 2 to actually fully level and upgrade the third.