392 replies to this topic

[Racerxintegra2k]

Lets get it over with. One way or another. Waiting around with this looming is killing interest anyway.

My biggest gripe, Cost to re-master all 130 mechs may kill it for me.Hopefully other people get what they want out of this.

[MrKvola]

Not happy about this.

If indeed this happens I am not looking forward to hours upon hours of tree clicking (I estimated at least 10 hours) and then days upon days of grind to get the c-bills that I will not have after the switch. And effectively have zero progress while doing it.

Would it be too much to unlock some standard set of SPs depending on skills that we have unlocked for our 'mechs? I would probably consider it OK that I will need to grind out remaining SPs to replace modules, but mastering almost all of my 'mechs basically from scratch just does not make me eager to play the game anymore.

I still consider the SP cost too steep. 40k c-bills and 600XP would make way more sense. What would make even more sense would be to remove the c-bill cost entirely and perhaps adjust rewards to compensate for the change in game economy (removal of modules). Although as it was I believe the economy was largely OK - by the time I finished levelling a set of 'mechs I would usually have enough c-bills to get more. Which pretty much kept me playing so far - there was a sense of progress.

Also, SPs should be unlocks and there should not be any cost whatsoever associated with their re-assignment.

[Deltree Zero]

For any vets who are looking forward to another long grind to give them some fleeting reason to play this POS game: well good for you. Most people aren't bored enough to reset 75% of their progress simply because Russ tells someone else to press a button. Length of a game does not always equal quality. Have fun spending another 1000$ on Russ and Paul's vacation homes.

For all the new players just joining or soon to join MWO: Get out your F***ING wallet or become buried beneath the avalanche of grind, get boot stomped and called a potato by vet comp players with meta mechs and meta skill tree builds and strap in for the most BS covered ride of your life with PGI at the wheel. If you are lucky and have disposable income, you may some day be able to compete with anyone who has played this game for a year or more. The skill curve, which in this game was already more like a skill wall, is now a skill drop from space into a 5 gallon bucket of Canadian beer urine while holding 17 rabid cats and getting a root canal.

The "New Skill Tree System" is really the "New Cash Grab System". Russ\Paul thought up a way to make more RL money $$$$$$$ and are changing C O R E gameplay elements to get that money. If you cannot see the blatant cash grab here, I feel sorry for you. These changes are NOT to expand gameplay and give you more value, these changes allow for additional ways PGI can charge you money. Have you seen the consumable tree? Come on!

"Dont refit your mech, buy a new one! And buy a new mechbay too! You cant pay for mechbays with c-bills, losers! Like switching modules around? Not anymore, suckers! Modules dont exist! PAY UP! HAWHAWHAW!! MMMMMMONEY!!!" -PGI

And when Russ\Paul have to push through a s**tty idea which benefits them and screws us, all they do is tell us they are making a game ruining choice, let us freak out and have a miniscule amount of input, and then make less edits than we want, and BOOM. Its live. So its guaranteed they will get what they want, with only minor tweaks to their horrible ideas and the fact that they gave us input makes it all ok. The grumbling eventually dies down and we all just deal, because there are exactly ZERO other modern multiplayer battletech games.

GG PGI.

Keep in mind the state this system was in when PGI was about to make it live. You all remember that, right? You were all there for that BS, right? Funny how fast MAJOR CORE GAMEPLAY can be changed when PGI wants to, but other things we have been asking to change or be added FOR YEARS get a PGI response like: "Coding is hard, OK?"

This is happening because PGI wants it to happen. There is no turning back.

F*** me.

I hope the new $kill tree system makes you all very very happy.

Edited by Deltree Zero, 09 March 2017 - 07:47 AM.

[Lucky Rookie]

Almond Brown, on 09 March 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Someone asked "What was the point of the PTS?" Answer. To once again prove the point that the MWO Community would rather "*****/Piss/Moan, than actually Test and help.

Given the chance, the Community would ask for 50 iterations and then whine about each one never being perfect for everyone and then blame PGI for that being the reality. The reality is stuff need to get done and made LIVE. Anyone is allowed their "opinion" but asking to the throw the baby out with the bathwater, just becasue "you" don't like it. Do everyone else a favor and just "Drama Queen" yourself out the door and we will see you on the field, in your Skilled Mechs, as has always the case with all of the "Drama Queens" of past.

I'm sorry but that's not true. A lot of people tested the PTS, me included, and provided lots and lots of feedback. PGI looked at some of them and picked only small things that were in line with their design. Apparently they had no intention to make big changes. The problem is, their design is way too complex and convoluted for their stated goals and includes a lot of things that rub people the wrong way. All of this could have been avoided, but no.

Nobody within their right mind opposes a skill system. Those who voice objections simply do so because they see lots of problems with the design. I am one of them.

Skill tree as it is already killed my will to play.

[Arkhangel]

Haazheel, on 09 March 2017 - 05:00 AM, said:

They would have better spent the time creating a few new maps and maybe one or two new gamemodes. THIS would make me happy, new skilltrees for my hundreds of mechs? Not really what im wishing for MWO. Ok, i will check after the update but im not willing to grind again hundreds of hours till i have my mechs like i want them. Been there, done that. I will give this update a chance but when i recognise it will be a grindfest again i ll quit. i know PGI dont care but then i wait for a new mechwarrior game.

newsflash, Jade Chicken, they gave you a new game mode: Escort. it hardly ever gets voted for. and modelling up a new map that works with every game mode isn't as easy as modelling or animating a mech. You do realize PGI isn't a terribly large gaming company, right? their main (and most likely only) office is a fairly small chunk of the second floor of a Mall, and i'd be surprised if there's more than 40 employees at most, and these people are allowed to have lives beyond fulfilling the requests of self-entitled salty forum posters.

Also.... you people whining about new maps should start using all of the ones we HAVE, and given them a reason to want to add more. I've played Frozen City, HPG Manifold (which is honestly the worst map in the lot) and Polar Highlands so freaking much I'm frankly sick to death of them. Yet it takes me having at least a 6+ vote multiplier to even have a CHANCE of getting maps like Caustic Valley, Terra Therma or Viridian Bog. honestly, they should actually add a vote divider if you constantly vote for and win the same maps.

this isn't Coolwarrior Online.

[banana peel]

Ok, this is the place to be harsh. Sorry in advance.

Stupid amount of quality feedback was provided here and on reddit with players agreeing on a moredate number of major issues need to be fixed to make the Skill Tree workable. I dont see any indication is was taken into account. And there was much more feedback to come!

But PTS is closed. After FOUR days into the last build and less than a week into PTS 2. Sure, there is no queue on PTS, and we all know why. But at least we could test things in the testing grounds.
FOUR days is enough for testing? How does it corresponds to "looking forward to our feedback"?

I thought i had a lot more time to test. I had a massive work with the community feedback to HELP YOU, guys, with the job collecting it and also - made a workable, balanced mock-up to give you some new ideas to reflect on. And surely i'm not alone. Now i have to rush post it with a little to no hope it will be noticed.

To be honest, i feel devastated for all those people that were striving to contribute and to HELP, invested DAYS of their lives.

Also i would like to take a moment to congratulate all the white knights that were spreading thier unreasoned enthusiastic "counter-whiner" posts, diminishing the value of the critique that for the most part was constructive and aimed to help to make the Skill Tree a balanced, meaningfull and enjoyable addition to the game.

You share responsibility for the major flaws of the Skill Tree if it is to come live in the state close to the PTS 2.5.

[Ronald McDonald]

PGI is PGI...

what PGI get: $$$$

what Players get:
Total ****** up UI where the average MWO User gets headcache when looking10sec on it - CHECK
Mastering costs much more then now - CHECK
Free Modulchange deleted - CHECK
Veterans will leave or just spend another couple of hundred real live credits into the game to stay competitive - CHECK
New Players face total ****** up UI, after couple of weeks the epic new Grindmill - CHECK

Sum up: Spend Money or die grinding

[Arkhangel]

Almond Brown, on 09 March 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Someone asked "What was the point of the PTS?" Answer. To once again prove the point that the MWO Community would rather "*****/Piss/Moan, than actually Test and help.

Given the chance, the Community would ask for 50 iterations and then whine about each one never being perfect for everyone and then blame PGI for that being the reality. The reality is stuff need to get done and made LIVE. Anyone is allowed their "opinion" but asking to the throw the baby out with the bathwater, just becasue "you" don't like it. Do everyone else a favor and just "Drama Queen" yourself out the door and we will see you on the field, in your Skilled Mechs, as has always the case with all of the "Drama Queens" of past.

P.S. To read someone post that they actually still somehow believe that their "Mastered" Mechs will not get a XP refund is just so f'ing brutal... I really feel for the lads at PGI. To have to deal with such un-informed individuals at such a late time in this process must be a Face Palm moment of epic proportions...

THANK YOU.

I mean, sheesus, the only reason PGI came out of closed Beta as fast as it did was because IGP FORCED them to go live. there's a reason they kicked those guys to the curb how they did, even if it did screw them a bit funding wise.

I also love the guy who said "the world champs should be talked to." the thing I don't think said people realize is the Tournament Server was frozen last February or March. EMP simply focused on everything that was exploitable in there, and they had Proton to coordinate them. ever ran into EMP without Proton with a competent team?

You'll murder them. they can play to a system's exploitability, yes, but things have gotten far less broken over the past year on the live server.

@banana: actually.... most of that "quality feedback" I saw, and i've read over every PTS feedback page has either been "Boo, change bad!" "Waaah, I don't want to actually pay my hard-working bay techs" or "Waaah, more Maps and Game modes we won't actually play!"

stuff that hasn't been that actually DID get looked at, and what had merit to more than just the poster actually got added. I agree the system ain't gonna be perfect, but if you're claiming you'll quit the game over changes..well... welcome to playing an MMO. change happens, you adapt, or you leave. crying about it doesn't help, because it's going to happen in one way or another.

Edited by Arkhangel, 09 March 2017 - 07:44 AM.

[Donnerkeil666]

This is gonna attract so many new players.. spread the word.

[-Pik-]

This game needs a shake up.

If this means some guys lose their precious golden icon in their mech list, so be it. If this is the only reason you play you should have quit a long time ago.

Kudos to PGI for following through with their design decision.

[BanditB17]

Arkhangel, on 09 March 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

I also love the guy who said "the world champs should be talked to." the thing I don't think said people realize is the Tournament Server was frozen last February or March. EMP simply focused on everything that was exploitable in there, and they had Proton to coordinate them. ever ran into EMP without Proton with a competent team?

You'll murder them. they can play to a system's exploitability, yes, but things have gotten far less broken over the past year on the live server.

Pure gold. You have just undermined any argument you could ever make with this comment right here.

[Duke Nedo]

I guess I could live with all the bad UI and bad general design if it wasn't for the likely balance ***********. Quirk nerfs needs to be rerolled, they are nuts.

[Arkhangel]

BanditB17, on 09 March 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

Pure gold. You have just undermined any argument you could ever make with this comment right here.

Actually.... I made that arguement because I actually did that once and I've played for awhile. You apparently don't remember the WubBolt, LightningBolt and single AC/5-acting-like-it-was-four Dragon. the tournament Kodiaks were original Quirk set, original weapon set for that timeframe the tourney server was locked, and they were commonly used by ALL of the top three teams, and especially EMP.

@Duke: honestly, what just needs to happen is quirks being removed. period. they were never meant to be a long term thing. they were just the best PGI could do with IGP breathing down their necks, and by the time they actually managed to unload those guys, people were too used to actually having them for PGI to just yank them out.

Edited by Arkhangel, 09 March 2017 - 08:11 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

This isn't ready, not close to ready, this needs at least another months work, closer to two.

Changing a few path ways and altering a few values just doesn't cut it.

Hell we don't even get to test the final version before it goes live.

While we can only guess what slight changes are being made.

In it's current form it is greatly inferior to what we have currently combined with quirks.

Hopefully H.B.S will have their game out before you go broke, because if this hits live with a few alterations, only a complete idiot will spend money here.

Edited by Cathy, 09 March 2017 - 08:16 AM.

[lpmagic]

Arkhangel, on 09 March 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

THANK YOU.

I mean, sheesus, the only reason PGI came out of closed Beta as fast as it did was because IGP FORCED them to go live. there's a reason they kicked those guys to the curb how they did, even if it did screw them a bit funding wise.

I also love the guy who said "the world champs should be talked to." the thing I don't think said people realize is the Tournament Server was frozen last February or March. EMP simply focused on everything that was exploitable in there, and they had Proton to coordinate them. ever ran into EMP without Proton with a competent team?

You'll murder them. they can play to a system's exploitability, yes, but things have gotten far less broken over the past year on the live server.

@banana: actually.... most of that "quality feedback" I saw, and i've read over every PTS feedback page has either been "Boo, change bad!" "Waaah, I don't want to actually pay my hard-working bay techs" or "Waaah, more Maps and Game modes we won't actually play!"

stuff that hasn't been that actually DID get looked at, and what had merit to more than just the poster actually got added. I agree the system ain't gonna be perfect, but if you're claiming you'll quit the game over changes..well... welcome to playing an MMO. change happens, you adapt, or you leave. crying about it doesn't help, because it's going to happen in one way or another.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is such a childish thought we will start with the most glaring of weaknesses......the "world champs", proton did not "lead" them, writhen did, along with Heimdelight, and it was more of an organic aproach, the reason they won was because they practiced exclusively with the tourney client and held on to at least 16 top shelf players to do it, they did internal scrims until their eyes bled, and, they are ALL great players, I doubt severely that you and your cronies ever came upon more than one or two of them in a group queue and managed to do anything, lol, this was an absolutely disrespectful and uninformed statement.

Next, people complain about the skill tree because it is unfinished business, they took a long time to get it to this point, and there are some great assets, but, lets take a look at the fact that it took them several months to put it together, but they are not taking the requisite time to go through some very good PTS iterations and dial it down, no need to go live before they,, and, the greater population of the game are happy with it. No one is "crying" in the feedback thread, they are giving feedback, kinda what it's for.

you obviously know very little about how the game is exploitable from a player sense, there will always be a "best" strategy, and or set of players. Don't get me wrong, proton is a flat out beast (<S> Proton) and was certainly a part of the world champs dominance, but he would be the first to tell you that it was and still is a team game, that whole freaking team is full of super talented pilots, and they keep em together, no easy feat. Please don't speak of which you don't know good person, it makes you sound so very foolish lol

[C E Dwyer]

Alistair Winter, on 09 March 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

Just gonna leave this here.

https://mwomercs.com...have-consensus/

Although I've played pretty regularly for more than 4 years now, I've barely played MWO since the release of the Supernova. I don't know if I'll keep playing after the next patch. It's just so very uninspiring when PGI ignores feedback to this degree.

Ugh...

You tried, we all tried, currently Skill tree is a disaster waiting to happen, broken new, is worse than broken old at least that made sense.

We all knew it was going to be a visual mess, but you'd think to god P.G.I would have the common sense that is isn't close to being ready.

Until P.G.I reverted back to type I nearly talked myself into buying up the assassin again, because it looked for a short time like they were listening.

This is a very big lost opportunity, to do something right for a change, to win back some support, and some backing with hard cash and they blew it, like I guess ultimately we knew they would.

[SFC174]

Joe average player here (finally reached that point after 9 months in game). Moderate spender (bought Huntsman, MADIIC and Supernova - although regretting the last except the BR). Quickplay only pilot.

When I look back at my progression in game, the significance of mastering a mech and using proper modules to improve my success in combat, and the importance of mastering/modules vs. actual pilot skill, I don't get a good feeling on the new skill tree.

A good pilot can more easily overcome a non-mastered mech and lack of modules than can a rank noob. The new tree, because of its increased complexity, cost and especially penalties for changing your mind, will increase the combat effectiveness gap between newer players trying to rank up their mechs and veterans with plenty of xp and c-bills to spend.

I know that I went through several periods in my first few months where the skill gap seemed insurmountable, especially when the matchmaker put my sorry T4-T5 *** against T1 players. When I hit T3 and started facing T1 players all the time, I questioned whether or not I'd be able to progress any further, so badly did I get stomped. I managed to make it through though, learned many lessons and am T2 now. But, point being, if I had done that with the new skill tree in place, I _feel_ as though I might have just given up. And since T5 players seem to regularly face T1 players now, I think any new players are in for a very rough time. Not only will they often feel ineffective, they will be regularly called out for it in comms. They won't be able to afford to experiment to find their style/niche. They'll have to look for meta and stick to it religiously. Not good IMO.

Having played at a competitive level in some other MMOs in the past which were in later stages of life (3-4+ years in), this skill tree change feels very familiar. Its a revenue grab IMO. New players are probably pretty rare now. PGI needs money, and they need to extract it from the existing base. I don't think the skill tree changes are a good way to do it, but I can see how from a corporate perspective it has the potential to increase spending, especially among those who are compelled to remain competitive at the highest levels.

Just my thoughts as a joe average player.

[Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS]

OK, well.....

I'll keep up with the hot-fixes and patches to see when to come back.

I'm guessing six months, but we'll see!

Edited by Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS, 09 March 2017 - 09:03 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

BearFlag, on 08 March 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

Incursion mode coming. More tests. Hopefully, more testers.

I didn't read that they were putting the current ST live and unchanged. But some of the pending changes make it sound like the general scheme will be the same. Not good, IMO. It needs to get smaller and simpler. Players, at least in forum, clearly prefer a linear set up. Gating desirable nodes behind undesirable ones is not the best way to create choice.

And, no, it's not necessary or the inevitable design. I get what they're trying to do, but this is a messy way to do it. Trees linear, desirable trees should be deep, undesirable ones shallow, SPs reduced. Bam, same effect. Simple, intuitive. The difference is traversing irrelevant/unwanted skills using 91 points to still get what you want versus going directly there with fewer SPs to spend.

Less testers I think you mean after this debacle

[C E Dwyer]

Prosperity Park, on 08 March 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Yup, I am gullible. I like to customize my Mechs, and if that makes me gullible then you might need to look that word up in the dictionary. It has nothing to do with customization. If you are referring to costs, remember that a fully kitted Mech requires at least four modules and all of the GXP needed to unlock those modules in the first place.

New players don't need to grind for their GXP anymore. New players do not need to buy 3 Mechs in order to just level 1 anymore. But I guess you don't care about new player experience, do you? You think everyone should just throw cash at the game to convert their XP into GXP for the current system don't you? To be clear you do not support new players or free players. It's a good thing the new system does though.

New players now have to grind XP and spend C-bills, C-bills that are already over stretched buying upgrades.

Those of us here for years now have an even greater advantage than using the old system.

This one reason alone makes the new system inferior to the old place holder.

Edited by Cathy, 09 March 2017 - 08:46 AM.