90 replies to this topic

[Jay Leon Hart]

L3mming2, on 11 March 2017 - 02:12 AM, said:

i'm not saying i like it but you do have a point there...

For everyone playing right now that has modules out the wazoo. It's a great way to discourage new players, though. Oh, you want your 'mech to perform like all those YouTubers and Twitch streamers you love? Sure! Just don't buy *anything* for the next 100 matches! Hey. Hey! Come back! HEY!

[L3mming2]

Jay Leon Hart, on 11 March 2017 - 02:20 AM, said:

For everyone playing right now that has modules out the wazoo. It's a great way to discourage new players, though. Oh, you want your 'mech to perform like all those YouTubers and Twitch streamers you love? Sure! Just don't buy *anything* for the next 100 matches! Hey. Hey! Come back! HEY!

4 mil / 150K cbils a mach, thats 26 maches ... yes thats reasonable...

[Jay Leon Hart]

L3mming2, on 11 March 2017 - 02:46 AM, said:

4 mil / 150K cbils a mach, thats 26 maches ... yes thats reasonable...

Then we disagree

[L3mming2]

Jay Leon Hart, on 11 March 2017 - 02:50 AM, said:

Then we disagree

but its a big difference from your 100 maches hyperbowl statement..

[Jay Leon Hart]

L3mming2, on 11 March 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

but its a big difference from your 100 maches hyperbowl statement..

Which, as you noted, was hyperbole. Plus, 2 consumables per match (well, 3 once the Skill Tree drops, at least for me) is 80k-120k "less earnings" per match. So that makes it, what? 57-133 matches if you use consumables.

[Zergling]

Then don't run consumables. If you need them, then you are relying on a pay 2 win mechanic.

I've never used consumables, and I do just fine.

Edited by Zergling, 11 March 2017 - 06:06 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Zergling, on 11 March 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

Then don't run consumables. If you need them, then you are relying on a pay 2 win mechanic.

I've never used consumables, and I do just fine.

Just a little tweak...

Zergling, on 11 March 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

Then don't use the skill tree. If you need it, then you are relying on a pay 2 win mechanic.

See how much sense that makes?

[Zergling]

Jay Leon Hart, on 11 March 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

Just a little tweak...


See how much sense that makes?

/facepalm

There is more than enough income to afford the skill tree, without premium time or cbill bonus mechs.

Consumables have always been borderline P2W, because due to how they reduced cbill income, they were always more usable by those players with premium time and/or cbill bonus mechs.
Further, the reduced cbill income means consumables always increased grind time, so there is no change there with the implementation of the skill tree.

Edited by Zergling, 11 March 2017 - 06:19 AM.

[Appogee]

Classic expectation manipulation...

First Reveal: 100,000 CBills
Player Reaction: Outrage!

Second Reveal: 150,000 CBills
Player Reaction: Outrage!

Third Reveal: 50,000 CBills
Player Reaction: "Well it's not good but at least it's not as bad."

Fourth Reveal: 45,000 CBills
Player Reaction: "Thanks Russ!"



And that, kids, is how you go from 0 CBills to level a Mech, to more than 4M CBills to level a Mech, while getting the potatoes to actually thank you for it.

Edited by Appogee, 11 March 2017 - 06:27 AM.

[Bradigus]

45,000 c-bills per node is still going to mean 4,095,000 c-bills to bring a mech to comparable levels to the current live servers. Not to mention the 72800 XP cost requirement. Un-mastered 'mechs on the test server were absolutely atrocious to try and play. Felt like I was playing with stock mechs without quirks.

It's still a lot, and coupled with the cost increase in consumables, I might as well not spend anything on MWO anymore. I'll spend this entire year grinding my backside off to get my current stable of 'mechs back to the current default. I'll need 683,865,000 c-bills just to master my current stable of 'mechs. Woe betide those with even more.

Then you throw on the cost of re-specialization and the forced reset of the Jenga tower with the new tech coming in summer, and I'm feeling not just slightly peeved.

Edited by Bradigus, 11 March 2017 - 06:37 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Russ Bullock, on 10 March 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

Hey guys.

Just wanted to re-iterate that we can't refund many hundreds of billions of cbills back into the economy without a one time initial Cbill cost per node.

Still looking at data to come up with the right number. It's at 45k atm and that works well for most players, but looking to improve edge cases.

Nice that you listen and take things into consideration *thumbs up* from me!

My garage is small compared to the huge ones. However, wouldn't it work to give the accounts a CB injection like you do with event rewards based on the mechs they have mastered/they possess

Alternatively lower the node reduction for 1 week so that the whales can click the hell out of their mouses and skill their 200+ mechs?

? I am no techhead so I also have no clue if that is possible either. Just a suggestion

Edited by Bush Hopper, 11 March 2017 - 06:46 AM.

[oldradagast]

Get rid of the respec cost in XP and cbills entirely or its a no-go.

I'm not playing that stupid, upcoming game where the skill maze changes every few months and forces me to waste time and resources regrinding the same mechs over and over again. We know it's going to happen - massively unbalancing new tech coming, for example - and most people are not going to buy a dime of premium time just so they can regrind the same mechs repeatedly after every skill maze change.

No respec costs or no skill tree.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Zergling, on 11 March 2017 - 06:14 AM, said:

/facepalm

I completely agree.

/facepalm indeed.

[oldradagast]

Alistair Winter, on 10 March 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

The cost of the nodes isn't really my major concern.

I'm more concerned with the actual structure of the skill tree, spreading associated skills all over the place to and the fact that there's 91 nodes per mechs. Even without the concerns about the c-bills and XP, there seems to be a large portion of the players who feel that the skill tree doesn't work as intended.

https://mwomercs.com...have-consensus/

The skill maze is a tangled, horribly designed mess of unrelated skills and false choices. Unfortunately, PGI seems committed to putting that mess live, even though it's a miserably boring and confusing thing to go through and will negatively effect the new player experience as well as bore the veterans. The old skill tree, for all its flaws, was literally the only thing in the game a new player could not screw up: they can buy bad mechs and use bad builds, but they'd be able to level their mech up reasonably quickly just like the pros. Now, that's gone, too, and they'll no doubt waste a fortune making a mess of their leveling until they find some random article somewhere on the internet that shows them the handful of viable skill maze paths amid the sea of fail.

It's a horrible design that looks like something from the 1990's, but PGI is committed to it, so now we're stuck haggling over the cost we get to pay to regrind our own mechs - and we are STILL stuck with a respec cost in XP, which is absurd and punishes experimenting with builds and adding new tech to the game.

Edited by oldradagast, 11 March 2017 - 06:49 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

I know my wallet is closed until they announce the March 'mechs and what new tech is coming.

If the Skill Tree gets appropriate changes *and* I like the new tech *and* I want at least one of the new 'mechs? I'll re-engage my whale status. If not? Well, I will have more than enough 'mechs to play for long enough that I shouldn't need to spend anything until things *do* change.

Of course, that doesn't mean I *won't spend money, just that I shouldn't

[Revis Volek]

Russ Bullock, on 10 March 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

Hey guys.

Just wanted to re-iterate that we can't refund many hundreds of billions of cbills back into the economy without a one time initial Cbill cost per node.

Still looking at data to come up with the right number. It's at 45k atm and that works well for most players, but looking to improve edge cases.

There is no economy in this game, only sums that get a little bigger when you play and smaller when you buy skills.


1:1 mech conversions or GTFO Russ. Why my money is worth less today then it was years ago i will never understand.

Canadian inflation i guess...

Zergling, on 11 March 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

Then don't run consumables. If you need them, then you are relying on a pay 2 win mechanic.

I've never used consumables, and I do just fine.

So you wont use any skills then right?

Since they cost cbills and cbills can be bought with money you dont wanna be a p2w'er do ya? DO YA?!?!

[Mister Blastman]

L3mming2, on 11 March 2017 - 02:46 AM, said:

4 mil / 150K cbils a mach, thats 26 maches ... yes thats reasonable...

Nope.

I have something like 80 mechs. 80 x 4 = 320 million c-bills, JUST TO GET BACK TO WHERE I WAS BEFORE.

That is not right.

[Revis Volek]

Mister Blastman, on 11 March 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

Nope.

I have something like 80 mechs. 80 x 4 = 320 million c-bills, JUST TO GET BACK TO WHERE I WAS BEFORE.

That is not right.

I have 100 more then that...and other then buying the 3 clan waves they were all bought with Cbills for the most part aside from hero mechs of course.


Way to much time to spend here again, maybe if the game was more fun? *hint hint god dammit*

[Zergling]

Revis Volek, on 11 March 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

So you wont use any skills then right?

Since they cost cbills and cbills can be bought with money you dont wanna be a p2w'er do ya? DO YA?!?!

As difficult it may be for you and others to understand this, the skill tree is part of the grind now.

Consumables are the same as they always have been; they lower the grind progression, and have never been accounted for in progression calculations because they are are basically 'reduced grind speed to win' (or when tied with premium time and other income boosts, 'pay to win').


As for my position with the skill tree, I have 98 mechs, and 40 of those are mastered. I will be receiving a 193 million cbill refund from my modules, which is enough to master 47 mechs (at 4.095 million each), so I'll be coming out ahead.

Interestingly, my cbills per battles is 155,288.25, and with 3381 battles played that is 525 million cbills I've earned in total.
I've also spent roughly 392 million cbills on mechs; 193 + 392 is 585 million, so I've made a fair number of cbills back from selling mechs, weapons and engines.

I suspect that many people coming up short after the module refund have much lower effective net cbill income per battle because they were using consumables, which reduced the amount of cbills they had available for things like modules.

Edited by Zergling, 11 March 2017 - 09:05 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Zergling, on 11 March 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

As difficult it may be for you and others to understand this, the skill tree is part of the grind now.

Guess what? As difficult as it may be for you and others to understand, WE DON'T HAVE TO GRIND.

We can find other things to spend our time with.