137 replies to this topic

[MaxxQ]

Probably Not, on 12 March 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

Russ is a big boy now. He is the Biggest of Big Wigs at a corporation. He should absolutely KNOW BETTER than to do that. That is why you have community managers who VERY CAREFULLY choose their words.

People use poor word choice all the time, and they get blasted for it all the time. People who run entire companies should damn well know better.

Somewhat off-topic re: the bolded sections above.

They don't always though. I was there when this happened: https://www.penny-ar...e-is-projecting

Just the first paragraph and the links included within it.

In a nutshell, Alex Rodberg (aka Marweas) was the community manager for Sierra when Homeworld 2 was being developed. People were upset that HW2 wasn't shown at ECTS, aside from a single banner, and Rodberg got fed up dealing with the "miniscule community".

Another quote from Alex: "[color=#333333]I look forward to hearing more complaints about how Sierra ignores the community. I'm sure accusing instead of asking, and bitching instead of learning will accomplish your goals admirably."[/color]

I understand the frustration of having to deal with a fanatical community, but poor word choice is still poor word choice.

As for the new skill system, I have no dog in this fight, as I've only been playing for 6 weeks and am still too new to the game to argue one way or the other.

Edited by MaxxQ, 12 March 2017 - 09:40 AM.

[Bluttrunken]

Good bye and may you have fun in the next game.

[Tordin]

Mister Blastman, on 12 March 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

Actually, you should be THANKFUL we are throwing a poo fit on the forums!

We are trying to SAVE the game from a DISASTER.

THANK US.

White knighting is destructive in times like these, reminds me of a great cartoon:

White knighting (blind kind) are bad, but sure as hell, Black knighting arent helping either. Neither side seems constructive at all. Saving the game... sounds like words from a blindstruck zealots, be it white or black.


"I shall save thy game by shitflinging all over it!"
"Because that helps all!"
"Repent!"
"The game is nigh death, you are not having fun, fleee!"


"I shall save thy game by praising all over it!"
"Because that helps all!"
"Repent!"
"The game is glorious, no faults at all, staaaay!"

oldradagast, on 12 March 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

Yes and no.

In short, it's not specifically that everything was great until Russ made a bad joke about cheapskates and THAT offended everyone, but rather that this storm has been brewing for weeks now since the utter failure of a skill maze - and the huge, new grind associated with it - was revealed. Then, when given a chance to address the situation, PGI tells everyone to "stuff it" and they are going to deploy the skill maze basically as-is, with all the failures still in place, and Russ spends his time cracking bad jokes that don't mesh well at all with holding everyone's mechs hostage behind a grind-wall.

Joking that people who've poured hundreds or thousands of dollars into the game are all "cheapskates" is stupid; doing it right before forcing all those people to regrind their mechs is just mind-bogglingly stupid.

Agree on that Russ... *sigh* Russ are the worst comedian there is. I can see why he tried to make a "friendly" joke about those that almost never brought modules and mostly got em from events, pre-orders etc.
I didnt take it seriously. Im as a "cheapskate" have almost never used modules (besides some testing) or brought more than 5, TOPS. But it was a very uneccesary sentence he did. Russ should have stuffed that sentence, those words back into the locker for sure. But what is done is done.
And that resulted in some of the players, some call them fanatics/ black knights/zealots that hunt for such statements, getting fuel to the fire.
I've seen enough gaming comunities getting wrecked thanks to wackos on both sides while those in the middle are stuck in confusion and "what the F?"

Edited by Tordin, 12 March 2017 - 09:33 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Probably Not, on 12 March 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

It isn't funny, even as a joke. It's pretty goddamn insulting, after pouring more REAL MONEY than I've EVER poured into ANY OTHER COMPUTER GAME I HAVE EVER POURED MONEY INTO BEFORE, to even JOKINGLY be called a "cheapskate" because I chose to avail myself of the ability to simply swap relevant modules between mechs rather than STUPIDLY GRIND OUT REDUNDANT MODULES ACROSS ALL OF MY MECHS. "Cheapskate" isn't just a bad joke, it's a bad joke that is symbolic of just how tone-deaf Russ is. It's a serious sore spot as well, in light of the amount of money I have (against my better judgment) poured into MWO, and I'm far from even being the biggest spender around here.

Let me lay this bare for you: "Cheapskate" is probably one of the WORST POSSIBLE WORDS YOU CAN USE to describe, even jokingly, a customer-base that consists of people who pour hundreds of dollars into the game. EACH.

It sounds to me like you are just looking for a reason to justify your anger. Did you even listen to the Podcast? He was talking about spending or not spending C-Bills on modules. There was absolutely nothing said about people spending or not spending money in the game. You are willfully taking it out of context.

Get mad if you want to, that is your right. But do not get all righteous about it and say that it is because someone purposely insulted you when, in fact, they did not.

Or just carry on as you were.

[Alistair Winter]

Mister Blastman, on 12 March 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

I care. Don't post about politics in Gen Disc. End of story. Please stop it, now.

Nah.

Probably Not, on 12 March 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

I really don't care whether someone is stupid or malicious when they do something. For example, I don't really care whether the Skill Tree is the result of sheer incompetence or comical levels of greed on PGI's behalf. I DO care that it's going to screw a lot of people over. At a certain point, intent simply doesn't MATTER anymore - the result of their actions DO.

Well... I don't agree with that. If someone say something that gets blown completely out of proportion (especially in the world that we live in now, where everyone gets offended by everything) and people go crazy, then I won't judge the person who said something based on the result of their actions. It's not their fault if a lot of people fly off the handle.

However, in terms of game balancing, I agree with you. I don't care whether PGI is incompetent or greedy, if the game is ruined. In that case, I only care about the game itself.

This is basically a question of ethics, and it's prudent to apply different models of ethics to different situations (virtue ethics, consequentialism, deontology, etc).

[El Bandito]

oldradagast, on 12 March 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

So, you can't address the problem, but are delighting in the discomfort of others. Sounds about right for the failed decision making process that's being seen more and more all over the place these days. If other people are unhappy, you're happy, because "haha, screw them." Right. Mature.

Well, you'll have plenty of time to fill the forums with stupid memes that aren't even funny while watching for a match to queue up after half the remaining MWO population leaves in the coming weeks and months. Have fun with that.

Mister Blastman, on 12 March 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

It is never a good thing when a sizeable portion a game quits due to bad development decisions. Unless the developers can shoulder the costs, and if they can, must be prepared for significantly less cash flow... which means laying off coders, which means... slower improvement... or worse, none.

Yeah. Bad.

I find it extremely stupid for a player to to quit the game, or sell all of his mechs (one guy did that), even before the new skill tree change goes live. And the new skill tree would be further tweaked after more player feedbacks, as PGI does not want to lose many players.

So stupid.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 March 2017 - 09:53 AM.

[RestosIII]

El Bandito, on 12 March 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

I find it extremely stupid for a player to to quit the game, or sell all of his mechs (one guy did that), even before the new skill tree change goes live. And the new skill tree will undoubtedly be further tweaked after more player feedbacks.

So stupid.

I'm not going to quit, or sell my mechs, or anything like that, but I am going to be begging PGI to fix the skill tree constantly after it gets put on live. Because sweet jesus I'd like to be able to run my mechs without feeling crippled for months, thank you very much. I tried out unskilled mechs on the PTS, and they're horrid. That's coming from someone who has dueled people in a skillless, quirkless Nova Prime on the live server.

How I feel trying to hold out for new tech though while the forums burn.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I find it pretty dumb that people got offended over being jokingly called a cheapskate in a situation in which they were avoiding a cbill sink.

To be honest, I'd be fine if the people who get offended so easily left just so the community would overall be a bit more chill and joke around a bit more. Its a stark contrast between the uptight forums and ingame.

I just hate when people just take stuff out of context, context means more than the words used.

[Bud Crue]

El Bandito, on 12 March 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

I find it extremely stupid for a player to to quit the game, or sell all of his mechs (one guy did that), even before the new skill tree change goes live. And the new skill tree would be further tweaked after more player feedbacks, as PGI does not want to lose many players.

So stupid.

Off topic, but pertinent to your statement:

If they didn't want people to sell mechs or leave the game, maybe they shouldn't be across the board nerfing all those mechs and making a lot of them indistinct from one another. Example: Is it reasonable to hold on to four nearly identical Black Knights (see nerfs) in hopes that someday PGI will return the quirks that made then somewhat unique before, or is it more reasonable to sell three and keep the best one under the auspices of the new system as it is presented?

[Miodog]

Dirus Nigh, on 12 March 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

To all the responded to me. I just got ******* sick and tired of the self righteous ******** from players who would rather through a temper tantrum on the forums than just finding some thing else to do. You are not being constructive, you are not adding any thing to the community on the forums. If you dont like MWO, PGI, or the devs that much, just go and find some thing else to do.

I love this kind of attitude. You think people who do not think like you do and have the gall to express their opinions are self righteous? That if you don't like MWO go and find something else to do? Why are your rights to freedom of expression more important than anyone else's rights to freedom of expression. If you disagree with what is being said state that without resorting to attacking people and telling them to leave.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Bud Crue, on 12 March 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Off topic, but pertinent to your statement:

If they didn't want people to sell mechs or leave the game, maybe they shouldn't be across the board nerfing all those mechs and making a lot of them indistinct from one another. Example: Is it reasonable to hold on to four nearly identical Black Knights (see nerfs) in hopes that someday PGI will return the quirks that made then somewhat unique before, or is it more reasonable to sell three and keep the best one under the auspices of the new system as it is presented?

Its most reasonable to react after you get solid information and see how your stuff is after the change rather than counting your eggs before they hatch... or in this case throwing all your eggs at a wall due to a chance that they won't.

Issue is this is what the community here keeps asking for in a way. They jump and shout whenever their mechs get nerfed yet constantly shout against powercreep and kept on saying they'd rather nerf the best down rather than buff the bads, so here we are with PGI's heavy handed nerf nukes as usual hitting everything and the community jumping and shouting over whatever new change happened like they do with *every* new change which usually leads to PGI scrapping everything and being inactive only producing mech packs while the community asks why they never add anything new and the player base slowly falls apart because the game has gone stagnant while the dumpster fire on the forums continues to rise.

[El Bandito]

Bud Crue, on 12 March 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Off topic, but pertinent to your statement:

If they didn't want people to sell mechs or leave the game, maybe they shouldn't be across the board nerfing all those mechs and making a lot of them indistinct from one another. Example: Is it reasonable to hold on to four nearly identical Black Knights (see nerfs) in hopes that someday PGI will return the quirks that made then somewhat unique before, or is it more reasonable to sell three and keep the best one under the auspices of the new system as it is presented?

That's up to players to decide. I never bought Black Knights because they have low mounted hardpoints and are quirk reliant--never a good purchase, aside from nostalgia. So those who had bought them should deal with their own mistake, in their own ways. I sold all redundant mechs because there is almost ZERO chance PGI will implement the two solutions that can bring back more variety--Sized Hardpoints, and location based quirks for battlemechs.

jjm1, on 12 March 2017 - 07:30 AM, said:

It was a joke made in the last NGNG podcast.

It obviously didn't go over so well with the people already annoyed at spending hundreds of dollars on the game only for the big mechcon reveal to be an increase to the games massive grind barrier.

Its not even about the C-bills IMO. It more or less a bottled up reaction to how sloppy PGI has been with their decisions for years now.

People are getting offended for that? That's nothing compared to the "You are on an island" comment many years ago.

[Johnny Z]

Skill tree hype train video.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 March 2017 - 10:11 AM.

[El Bandito]

Probably Not, on 12 March 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

Stop pretending that this is somehow the only thing we're actually upset about. That's exceedingly dishonest of you.

I voice my displeasure at PGI often enough, and deride their capabilities just as much. I am however, not flipping out over such a remark and the skill tree change as other... more sensitive beings, in these forums. So allow me to continue to shake my head at your apparent silliness.

[Mister Blastman]

El Bandito, on 12 March 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

I find it extremely stupid for a player to to quit the game, or sell all of his mechs (one guy did that), even before the new skill tree change goes live. And the new skill tree would be further tweaked after more player feedbacks, as PGI does not want to lose many players.

So stupid.

Yeah, it might be silly to sell your 'mechs for yourself, but some folks can't detach themselves unless they have zero skin the game. Think of it as Pokemon obsession--if it is there, and they can touch it, they must, or they dwell upon it incessantly.

So they sell their stuff and then there is no going back, unless they want to spend a ridiculous amount of time and money again.

So whatever works, man.

Myself, I stopped playing several months ago because I found myself getting more angry with the matchmaker than happy from the enjoyment I get from killing other players. The benefit vs. risk was tilted towards risk, so the decision was easy.

I'm actually playing Star Citizen some now, in whatever little time I have to game, O_O, which is shocking because I've been critical with decisions they are making. And then last weekend, I played Grand Theft Auto IV. I hate Grand Theft auto. But I had fun. And that's all that matters.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Probably Not, on 12 March 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

There is no context that doesn't make Russ sound like a tone-deaf jerk. Sorry.

Furthermore, like I said, if this was just about ONE INSTANCE of Russ being a tone-deaf jerk, you might have a point. But that isn't the case. This is yet another example of a clear pattern of behavior from Russ, and that is on top of the gobsmackingly stupid design choices they have chosen to make OVER AND OVER AGAIN with the MWO balance game.



Stop pretending that this is somehow the only thing we're actually upset about. That's exceedingly dishonest of you.

I mean, he was never wrong when he said that you guys are on an island and don't represent the majority of the population. As for the comment he made saying PGI knows better, hes at least 50-50 on that. For every person who uses some math and competitive knowledge to come up with a balance plan there are another 10 who come up with some insanely stupid ideas for balance. There's been so many times more times that I've hoped that PGI doesn't read the forums than times that I did that its disappointing.

I mean the community has been saying that the game has been dying since 2013 and they've been wrong and still are and haven't learned. PGI's fed up and doesn't care to not be blunt, maybe hoping that the people they dislike will finally leave instead of just saying they will for the 100th time.

Russ might be a tone-deaf jerk, but I'm with him.

[Johnny Z]

Probably Not, on 12 March 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

I'm silly because I have a limit to just how much crap I'm willing to put up with? Hokay. Then yes, I am the silliest goddamn person on the face of the planet. I have definite boundaries, and I've honestly let PGI get away with a lot more crap than I would let a more well-established studio get away with. Silly me for drawing the line somewhere, right?

Again, if this were just a matter of a bad joke, I could probably be dismissed as having no sense of humor whatsoever. But PGI has absolutely done their damnedest over the years to sandblast away the THICKEST of hides in the BT/MW community, both with their words and their actions, and as it turns out for some of us, they've succeeded in abrading away our defenses and exposing raw nerves. Silly us.

As long as your having fun. Other than that your being a drama queen.

Slow pace of development and lack of content are the only legit complaints that could be made.

Complaining when something actually gets done and done well by the looks of it, is funny.

[oldradagast]

Johnny Z, on 12 March 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

As long as your having fun. Other than that your being a drama queen.

Slow pace of development and lack of content are the only legit complaints that could be made.

Complaining when something actually gets done and done well by the looks of it, is funny.

"Change is good" argument there, which is a fallacy.

The facts are against the skill maze and the mech nerf coming with it. Just because PGI "did something" doesn't mean it's good. It's a laugh. People are so desperate for "something to change" in the game, they'll accept ANY change. PGI is banking on it. Enjoy re-grinding all your mechs up, over and over, every single dang time PGI tosses in new tech or "rebalances" the skill maze.

[El Bandito]

Dakota1000, on 12 March 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

I mean the community has been saying that the game has been dying since 2013 and they've been wrong and still are and haven't learned. PGI's fed up and doesn't care to not be blunt, maybe hoping that the people they dislike will finally leave instead of just saying they will for the 100th time.

Russ might be a tone-deaf jerk, but I'm with him.

To be fair, the game was in trouble just before the Steam release, with intolerably slow queues, and a dead CW. Steam had brought in fresh players to give it longer lease of life, but just the fact PGI had to go on Steam means there was significant backlash to their way of doing things until then.

[oldradagast]

El Bandito, on 12 March 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

To be fair, the game was in trouble just before the Steam release, with intolerably slow queues, and a dead CW. Steam had brought in fresh players to give it longer lease of life, but just the fact PGI had to go on Steam means there was significant backlash to their way of doing things until then.

Exactly. People also forget that an online game can "die" very slowly. Just because the servers are still on and you can still buy a mech-pack doesn't mean the game is doing well. It hasn't been in some time, if player numbers and PGI's latest regrind cash-grab attempt are any indication.