4 replies to this topic

[K O N D O]

I thought it might be better to put this proposal in its own thread instead of being spread over other posts.


It takes approx 45 nodes to unlock similar skills to the current Basic/Elite unlocks. However it also costs 2,025,000 CB to unlock those 45 nodes which in the old system would cost you zero CB.
Nodes 46-91 is similar to mastering fully equipping a mech with all modules.
Most mechs have the ability to fit 1 x Mech module and 2 x Weapon modules. So let's just say, if someone fitted modules to a mech, they would normally fit 12 Mil CB worth.
The trouble most players have is they swap modules.
Module swapping cannot be done under the new system and a line (or CB cost) has to be drawn somewhere so players aren't facing a huge grind and PGI also doesn't have a flooded CB economy.

So let's say those 12Mil CB worth of modules is swapped amongst 6 mechs. That is 2Mil CB worth of modules per 6 mechs.
Now if nodes 46 - 91 is similar mastering and fully equipping modules on a mech, 46 x 45,000 CB = 2,070,000 CB, the cost to fully module 6 x mechs is about the same grind.
I think it should cost more CB to to get an equivalent fully moduled mech for 46 nodes, but in the interest of PGI and player revolt, it is probably the fairest starting point as we transition to a new system.
I think it should cost 4Mil CB to equivalently fully module a mech but just my opinion and I'll address that further below.

I still think my proposal below is:

• fair for players who are mech rich with a large number of them Elite'd (so they don't have to sell mech to fund the change),
  
• fair on the people who are module rich as they get refunded what they have spent,
  
• fair on PGI as it helps with player revolt and doesn't flood the economy, and
  
• fair on new players entering the game so they can quickly Elite a mech with 45 nodes.

So my revised proposal is:


1. Node cost remains at 45,000 CB per node for the first 45 nodes. This helps new players to not grind as much and allows them to compete with mastered mech quicker.

2. One chassis of all variants (not duplicates) owned get allocated a CB refund based on what skills have been previously unlocked as per below table.

Cool Run = 1 x 45,000 CB

Kinetic Burst = 1 x 45,000 CB

Twist X = 3 x 45,000 CB

Heat Containment = 1 x 45,000 CB

Hand Brake = 2 x 45,000 CB

Twist Speed = 3 x 45,000 CB

Arm Flex = 2 x 45,000 CB

Anchor Turn = 4 x 45,000 CB

TOTAL BASIC = 17 x 45,000 CB = 765,000 CB

Quick Ignition = 5 x 45,000 CB

Fast Fire = 8 x 45,000 CB

Pin Point = 4 x 45,000 CB

Speed Tweak = 11 x 45,000 CB

TOTAL ELITE = 28 x 45,000 CB = 1,260,000 CB

TOTAL to BASIC & ELITE = 45 x 45,000 = 2,025,000 CB.

3. PGI automatically unlocks the relevant number nodes (XP and CB costs) based on the variants current Basic/Elite skill status by using the chassis HXP and the CB skills for that variant that was allocated in point 2 above.

(Example 1: if a variant had all Basic and Elite unlocked, that variant has 36,000 HXP removed and 2,025,000 CB removed that was allocated in point 2, giving 45 nodes available to use)

(Example 2: if a variant had only been Basic'd then that variant has 13,600HXP (17x800XP) removed and 765,000 CB (17x45,000CB) removed that was allocated in point 2, giving 17 nodes available to use)

This also helps PGI control the economy from getting flooded with CB's as they are allocating and purchasing nodes for a variant and stops people from using the refund on something other than bringing a mech back to an equivalent skill status.

4. All remaining HXP remains available across all duplicates of the same variant.
(Duplicates aren't included in the CB skill allocation (point 2) because they share the original skill unlock of the first variant)

5. All modules purchase costs are fully refunded.

6. Nodes 46-91 costs are increased to 65,000 CB (still 800XP) per node to make it equivalent to using 1 x weapon module to fully master a mech. 46 x 65,000 CB = 2,990,000 CB (46 x 800XP = 36,800 XP)
This helps stop the economy getting flooded with CB. Doesn't make it too unfair on the module poor players that swapped modules around multiple mechs, and doesn't make the module rich players have a massive CB boost. As the skill tree settles and the base line costs become clearer, you can adjust the 46-91 CB cost per node accordingly. However I would leave the 1-45 node cost at 45,000 CB / node to help new players.

PGI,
Please consider this approach if you believe it is fair for your player base and new players.
It will also resolve the issue of:

• mech rich players having to sell mastered mechs to fund the skilling of enough mechs previous Elite'd at zero cost.
  
• module rich players having excess CB and damaging the CB economy
  
• new player grind to unlock 45 nodes to get a mech close to original Basic/Elite status
  
• Help stop a lot of salt and player revolt.

Thoughts?

Edited by K O N D O, 12 March 2017 - 10:23 PM.

[K O N D O]

To make it even simpler instead of allocating and then removing CB etc. Makes it a bit confusing.

Each previously unlocked skill is worth a certain number of nodes. (45 nodes total for Basic/Elite from my previous tests)

Cool Run: cost 750Xp to unlock. In new Skill tree: 1 x Node = 800XP...... Pretty close.


So:

Cool Run = 1 x Node

Heat Containment = 1 x Node

Kinetic Burst = 1 x Node

Hand Brake = 2 x Nodes

Arm Flex = 2 x Nodes

Twist X = 3 x Nodes

Twist Speed = 3 x Nodes

Anchor Turn = 4 x Nodes

All Basic = 17 nodes unlocked

Pin Point = 4 x Nodes

Quick Ignition = 5 x Nodes

Fast Fire = 8 x Nodes

Speed Tweak = 11 x Nodes

All Elite = 28 nodes unlocked

Total nodes unlocked for Basic/Elite = 45 nodes.

Depending on which previous basic and elite skills are unlocked for each variant (including those variants sold but still have skills unlocked), the equivalent Historical XP (HXP) is removed from that variant and those number of nodes automatically added to that variant for a player to use in the new tree (CB free).

So if I have a mech with all basics unlocked, PGI allocate 17 x Nodes to that variant and removes 17 x 800HXP from that variant. (About the same total XP I would have used to unlock those basic skills)

• Simple for PGI.
  
• Everyones skilled mechs (including those previously sold) gets allocated an equivalent number of nodes to what skills were unlocked in the old system.
  
• Doesn't cost players any CB to apply previous unlocked skills.
  
• All modules are refunded in full to allow players to start purchasing nodes 46-91 as if they were fitting modules.
  
• PGI to determine the cost of nodes 46-91.

[Duerre]

Put the new system in without taking off the modules. Their new skill tree system should just compromise of things like twisting, turning, acceleration, etc etc. A mech is a mech w/ lots of options to change weapons, and there is where modules are really important. Changing weapons means changing your skill tree = lots of c-bills.

[K O N D O]

Duerre, on 18 March 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Put the new system in without taking off the modules. Their new skill tree system should just compromise of things like twisting, turning, acceleration, etc etc. A mech is a mech w/ lots of options to change weapons, and there is where modules are really important. Changing weapons means changing your skill tree = lots of c-bills.

The idea behind the skill tree was to consolidate all skills, weapon & mech enhancements in to a single system to make a better system for leveling.

You may not realise it, but the current proposed XP & CB cost for the skill tree is rather low.
There are probably 5 areas PGI need to address to make it work:

• EXISTING PROGRESSION - Players not lose current skill progress (Ie. Basic and Elite)
  
• COMPENSATION - Appropriately refund modules or allow players to sell mechs at full cost in order to acquire nodes equivalent to modules. (from my testing - nodes 46-91)
  
• FUTURE COSTS - Appropriately price (CB & XP) of the nodes equivalent to modules considering:
  
  • most people swap modules so the equivalent cost should be spread over a number of mechs,
    
  • players no longer have to purchase 3 variants to Elite only the one they like,
    
  • players no longer have to grind GXP to unlock the modules to enable them to be purchased,
• TREE DESIGN - I like the simplicity of Solama's but I also like what PGI is trying to achieve.
  
• RE-SPEC COSTS - I really liked the idea of zero re-spec costs to allow testing of mechs but I believe there has to be a bit of give and take. Someone else posted an idea of allowing players to unlock all nodes in a particular tree. If all nodes have been unlocked then re-specing of that tree costs zero XP and CB. If not all nodes are unlocked then re-specing still costs a small XP amount. I think PGI need to explore this that idea a bit more. It helps PGI use up excess player XP/CB but benefits players by not having re-spec costs after a certain amount.

[Duerre]

I think the re-spec costs would pacify some of the people. Because honestly, mechs for new players are going to be a trial and error kind of thing w/ the weapons and all. and re-spec for veteran players are just blatant costly especially for certain mechs.