80 replies to this topic

[RestosIII]

https://mwomercs.com...e-status-update

Well, we get some more time to try and help PGI fix this up. Little worried this will go the road of ED, but, at least we're not just barreling into having it on the live server like we were going to. Here's hoping this will work out!

Edited by RestosIII, 13 March 2017 - 06:22 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Edited by Mister Blastman, 13 March 2017 - 07:15 PM.

[AnTi90d]

Screw it, I just said this on HPG.. so I'll copypasta and reformat it.

Eh, I'm 50/50.

Quote

Based on results and feedback from the recent rounds of public testing we have decided to delay the release of the new Skill Tree until a future patch. While the date of its release is yet to be determined, we’d like to stress that the Skill Tree will be undergoing continued development and iteration in preparation for future rounds of public testing prior to release in a future patch. We strongly believe in the merits of a deeper Skill Tree system and fully intend to release the new Skill Tree when the feature is in a more refined state.

(+) They pushed it back and will continue working on it.

Hurray for that.. for now..

(-) Those blithering *****s didn't mention balance one single time, yet again. They apparently think it's A-OK to nerf mechs into the ground for absolutely no reason.

-----

Here's what I'm talking about.. and what many people failed to glean from the PTSs.

• Current System:

Night Gyr: has no quirks = wrecks face.


Cataphract: has strong quirks = still mediocre.

-----

• PGI Skill Tree:

Night Gyr: still has no quirks / even stronger poptart with skill system / buffed velocity of Gauss & PPC = god tier in skill tree universe.


Cataphract: loses nearly all of its quirks / can't even regain a fraction of previous quirks with skill tree = abysmal garbage in skill tree universe.

-----

What the hell could anyone possibly do to let PGI know how badly they **** up balance in the skill tree universe, as they had it? It's like having a dog that keeps sheeting in your living room.. you can yell at it, rub its face in it or spritz it with a spray bottle.. and it just keeps sheeting up the carpet. It seems like sheet-dog gives as many ****s about your carpet as PGI does about balance.

Edited by AnTi90d, 13 March 2017 - 06:48 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Am happy it got delayed to be adjusted better.

Thanks all who spoke against it.

[FupDup]

PGI seems to have an "all or nothing" stance when it comes to really big game-changing systems being tested in the PTS.

For example, the entirety of InfoWar got scrapped primarily because of backlash against the specific "Ghost Range" mechanic. They could have easily salvaged the actual sensor changes (like sensor strength based on mech size), provided that they would be willing to keep tweaking the values (Ghost Range though couldn't be saved).

Energy Draw got nuked as well mostly because of having really bad values that caused some loadouts to be shafted compared to others (e.g. spread weapons even after the first time PGI slightly lowered the energy values for them).

And now Skill Tree 1.0 seems like it will share the same fate. PGI insisted too much on having high costs to spec out a mech and keeping their "spiderweb" setup with lots of "gate" skills that you're forced to get. The basic concept of ST1.0 as just another aspect of your gundam to min-max could have easily been saved, if they'd been willing to make significant changes to it.

We either have to like something exactly as PGI presents it to us or it gets canned entirely.

Edited by FupDup, 13 March 2017 - 06:40 PM.

[oldradagast]

AnTi90d, on 13 March 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

What the hell could anyone possibly do to let PGI know how badly they **** up balance in the skill tree universe, as they had it? It's like having a dog that keeps sheeting in your living room.. you can yell at it, rub its face in it or spritz it with a spray bottle.. and it just keep sheeting up the carpet. It seems like sheet-dog gives as many ****s about your carpet as PGI does about balance.

At this point, I think expecting them to understand game balance is a lost cause. They really don't get it. Any game company that thinks they can nerf a huge chunk of their sold product into oblivion because "well, in a few months, it might be useful again, maybe... if we don't screw up..." is a lost cause.

The funny thing is thinkinh about the possible reasons for the nerfs that basically would have removed the IS from the game:
- They honestly think IS mechs don't need quirks, despite all evidence to the contrary, as you've cited
- They don't care and are willing to let IS become "legacy tech" to sell you a replacement mech pack
- Their plan is to make New Tech so overpowering that IS mechs will be devastating without quirks... which sounds good at first, except it will still result in yet another form of game imbalance and more legacy tech (all weapons before New Tech.)

There's really no way to look at their Super Nerf decisions and not be shocked at the possible reasons they wanted to go that way. At least the deployment of this lunacy is delayed for a while.

Edited by oldradagast, 13 March 2017 - 06:40 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I was all for them pushing it the 21st. I was even against the first delay they had from last month. I really just wish they'd push it out already and was fine with the current system.

I worry more that it will just get worse as it goes rather than better, but I hope they get it right enough that you guys don't implode so badly.

[EgoSlayer]

I don't understand why they didn't just do something like current XP/Skill level on mech in current = X number of SP in new system that unlock with zero cost for that mech. E.g. 57,250 XP (Current Mastery) = 72 one time use zero cost Unlock points in the new system instead of the Historic XP conversion.

EDIT: But I guess that still has the problem of the hundreds of millions of C-Bills many people would then have in their accounts.

EDIT2: I guess this means that the Incursion game mode is now going to be delayed as well, as that was supposed to be the next PTS session PGI was going to run, and now it's going to be another Skill Tree PTS.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 13 March 2017 - 06:51 PM.

[Deathlike]

EgoSlayer, on 13 March 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

I don't understand why they didn't just do something like current XP/Skill level on mech in current = X number of SP in new system that unlock with zero cost for that mech. E.g. 57,250 XP (Current Mastery) = 72 one time use zero cost Unlock points in the new system instead of the Historic XP conversion.

It would be too easy.

[Alan Davion]

Dakota1000, on 13 March 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

I was all for them pushing it the 21st. I was even against the first delay they had from last month. I really just wish they'd push it out already and was fine with the current system.

I worry more that it will just get worse as it goes rather than better, but I hope they get it right enough that you guys don't implode so badly.

So you're okay with them dropping a literal nuke on the current live version which is actually SOMEWHAT well balanced.

Let me have some of whatever it is you're smoking man.

I was waiting to see how the Skill Tree system would turn out before coming back to MWO, and after everything I'd seen over the last couple weeks I was convinced the Trees and the associated nuclear level nerfs across the board would be the absolute worst thing they could do to the game and they'd be better served by shutting the whole thing down if they pushed it live in its current state.

They have the right idea for a new skill system, but as usual they are going about it in the ABSOLUTE COMPLETELY WRONG F***ING WAY~!

[FireStoat]

To those who canceled mech orders & stopped playing the game temporarily, thanks. Your actions were heard loud and clear it seems. I'm not against change when the designers decide to make a shift to remedy a problem or enhance a game's health. When good reasons and information are imparted, the players welcome (mostly) the shift when it happens. Obviously, this wasn't the case here.

" It was never our intention to devalue the effort and playing time you've put towards your mechs."

This part of the news post cracked me the hell up. Unless they are absolutely horrible with math, there's no way this could possibly be true. They knew what the numbers were ever since the pre release of the PTS 1 of this mess.

Edited by FireStoat, 13 March 2017 - 06:53 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

FireStoat, on 13 March 2017 - 06:49 PM, said:

" It was never our intention to devalue the effort and playing time you've put towards your mechs."

This part of the news post cracked me the hell up. Unless they are absolutely horrible with math, there's no way this could possibly be true. They knew what the numbers were ever since the pre release of the PTS 1 of this mess.

Eh, they said that, to them, mastery in the new system was not the same thing as mastery under the current system. That statement makes perfect sense in that context.

[N0ni]

Cool, it got pushed back.






Don't care







Playing Siege







cya in a few days! (if i don't hop in for one or two matches)

[RestosIII]

N0ni, on 13 March 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

Playing Siege

I'd be playing Civ 5 right now if the Superpowers total conversion mod didn't have a nasty habit of CTD'ing constantly, and the Clash of Civilizations version doesn't have support for my go-to faction mod I run. Because of that, I'm sitting here really nervous about what the new tech announcement will be tomorrow.

[Chuck B]

Could some one with a twitter account ask Russ if they would be willing to at least drop the rule of 3 on the 24 as planed even if the rest is postponed. Call it a bit a bonus to the player base.

PS it was the one thing about the skill tree 2.0 I was looking forward to, the rest I was just going to put up with untill it was fixed*.

* PGI fixing can take years.

Edited by Chuck B, 13 March 2017 - 07:06 PM.

[Scout Derek]

N0ni, on 13 March 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

Cool, it got pushed back.






Don't care







Playing Siege







cya in a few days! (if i don't hop in for one or two matches)

What's your steam? I wanna play with ya

[Andi Nagasia]

once again, yay,...
i have no comment about this besides, im sad to hear its been delayed,

[jjm1]

Basically being haunted by a previous bad decision:

6'000'000 c-bill swappable modules.

I'm sure someone can excavate forum history and find a few long dead forum warriors pointing out why this was a terrible idea.

[TLBFestus]

Fire extinguished, ......for now.

[LordNothing]

well thats another several months of dev time wasted.