236 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

No seriously, congrats guys, you did it, you've forced yet another attempt by the company that owns the game, to cowtail to you.

Out of all the things PGI has done over the years...I'd actually hoped this would go through. After Coolantgate, 3pv, the Island... all of that... I saw hope, I was honestly looking forward to this system. Not just for changes sake, but it honestly looked interesting to me, it looked new, and fresh.

I understand the balance concerns many of you had, I get it... but there's always going to be an inherent imbalance to the game as long as Clan's weapons differ from IS, and have different damage values and the like. It's just how the game's going to work, because Clans are INHERENTLY imbalanced to IS, because that's what happened in the core Battletech game. The balancing factor of Clan vs IS were unit sizes, and clan dogma [which is NEVER represented here]

So congrats, on destroying one of the few features that I was looking forward to. The Refund was going to help me set up specifically the mechs I wanted to work on anyway, the skill tree was FINALLY going to get rid of the 3 mechs to master rule... and by god we were going to get rid of the pointless convergence node in the current tree!

And to PGI, I'm sorry you have such a ****** base of players that question your every single attempt to do something... I know you're not perfect, and I've had enough beef with you over the years [to the point that Russ blocked me on twitter for even warning him of an uprising some 4 years ago.. would still love to be unblocked by the way, I can't see any of his posts.].

So congrats guys, you stalled out what would have honestly, been a saving grace to this game. Good job.

[Clownwarlord]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 13 March 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

So congrats, on destroying one of the few features that I was looking forward to. The Refund was going to help me set up specifically the mechs I wanted to work on anyway, the skill tree was FINALLY going to get rid of the 3 mechs to master rule... and by god we were going to get rid of the pointless convergence node in the current tree!

I agree.

[Monkey Lover]

Quote

David Hombach‏ @Giftzwerg76 21m21 minutes ago

@russ_bullock @Navid_A1 @Ducky619 He wants to know that his modules will still be refunded. Some players went on module buying sprees.



Russ Bullock‏ @russ_bullock

@Giftzwerg76 @Navid_A1 @Ducky619 yes but again think progression refund not currency

Its still coming out but looks like to me we're not getting another currency for the upgrades. If you planned on buying a mech with your module refund , i wouldnt plan on it anymore....
I been spending money on modules like crazy i will be stopping now lol

Edited by Monkey Lover, 13 March 2017 - 11:52 PM.

[Lupis Volk]

Wow all the snivelling white knights sure are being passive aggressive today. Sorry that your tribe didn't win. Next time you should buy more mech packs to out weigh the refunds.

What's next everyone who opposed you are of a political group you hate with the fiery of a thousand suns.

People want the Skill tree to be the best it can be, not some slap dash alpha hack job we were getting. heck other forum users have made better if not superior skill tree's with little to no effort.

Here's one:

[Monkey Lover]

Lupis Volk, on 13 March 2017 - 11:54 PM, said:

Wow all the snivelling white knights sure are being passive aggressive today. Sorry that your tribe didn't win. Next time you should buy more mech packs to out weigh the refunds.

What's next everyone who opposed you are of a political group you hate with the fiery of a thousand suns.

People want the Skill tree to be the best it can be, not some slap dash alpha hack job we were getting. heck other forum users have made better if not superior skill tree's with little to no effort.

Here's one:

People keep posting this i really dont think they will like the game play they get with this type of meta building skill tree.

I 100% don't support his "you need to feel the change" all this means is anyone grinding is going to be WAY worse off.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 13 March 2017 - 11:57 PM.

[Clownwarlord]

Lupis Volk, on 13 March 2017 - 11:54 PM, said:

Wow all the snivelling white knights sure are being passive aggressive today. Sorry that your tribe didn't win. Next time you should buy more mech packs to out weigh the refunds.

What's next everyone who opposed you are of a political group you hate with the fiery of a thousand suns.

People want the Skill tree to be the best it can be, not some slap dash alpha hack job we were getting. heck other forum users have made better if not superior skill tree's with little to no effort.

Here's one:

You apparently didn't read the reason why PGI is not going through with it. The only issue PGI sees with releasing the skill tree is people bitching about their refund or lack their of. Not the skill tree itself.

[Vxheous]

It wasn't going to be a saving grace, it would have most likely created a mass playerbase loss from the game due to loss of progression of owned mechs (most people do not want to re-grind their mechs)

[Clownwarlord]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 13 March 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

It wasn't going to be a saving grace, it would have most likely created a mass playerbase loss from the game due to loss of progression of owned mechs (most people do not want to re-grind their mechs)

Just like stagnation will cause a lose in player base, but don't worry you wont to deal with change.

[Lupis Volk]

Clownwarlord, on 13 March 2017 - 11:56 PM, said:

You apparently didn't read the reason why PGI is not going through with it. The only issue PGI sees with releasing the skill tree is people bitching about their refund or lack their of. Not the skill tree itself.

Not the skill tree? SO what was the mystical reason people were demanding refunds? Because it certainly wasn't because the Assassin was comming!

God the mental gymnastics you and the others are preforming now are amazing. Go for gold lads!

[Weeny Machine]

The could have just adjusted the costs. Delaying the ST again... well, it just shows that this game goes nowhere development-wise because I strongly doubt they come up with something better anyway.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Lupis Volk, on 13 March 2017 - 11:54 PM, said:

Wow all the snivelling white knights sure are being passive aggressive today. Sorry that your tribe didn't win. Next time you should buy more mech packs to out weigh the refunds.

What's next everyone who opposed you are of a political group you hate with the fiery of a thousand suns.

People want the Skill tree to be the best it can be, not some slap dash alpha hack job we were getting. heck other forum users have made better if not superior skill tree's with little to no effort.

Here's one:

PGI has already stated in their NGNG interview "NO LINER SKILL TREES."

they want a deep, robust tree... and frankly, with the testing I did with the PTS, I was ready for the one we were going to get.

The fact that you and yours, threw such a goddamned fit at the change, shows how afraid of it you are. Some said it would enforce the current meta, or even bring back some of the old, more damaging meta... I disagree. Sure you can go down that road, but the tree balances itself out.

One person might go firepower and armor, while another might go armor and mobility, Yet another may go Mobility and Sensors.

Sure, the Meta Overlords were already gearing up to tell everyone "THIS IS THE ULTIMATE WAY TO SKILL NODE, NO OTHER WAY TO NODE IS THE PROPER WAY TO NODE, YOU MUST NODE THIS WAY TO BE META!" I was already seeing it.

And maybe to them, that's the right way, good for them... but at least it would have been a change from what we currently have, and at this point, that change would have been a net positive.

some people saw the tree as a blanket nerf to everything... ever think maybe that's a GOOD thing? TTK is already abyssmally low... by nerfing everything, you bring that TTK back up a bit.

But people don't think... change is scary. So congrats, you've stalled something because you were afraid of change, and you knee jerked. Hell even if this HAD gone live, it would STILL undergo changes even after release!

Well done guys, well done.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 13 March 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

snip

I feel you. I agree. But what can we do, besides refuse to read any opposing viewpoints longer than 91 keystrokes?

[Vxheous]

Clownwarlord, on 13 March 2017 - 11:59 PM, said:

Just like stagnation will cause a lose in player base, but don't worry you wont to deal with change.

Stagnation of gameplay will cause gradual loss in player base, like every game out there. Loss of progression however would have been a sudden loss of player base, not exactly the same thing. The skill tree as presented by PGI doesn't actually change much from what we have now, apart from a graphical standpoint for the skill tree. You technically have 91 points to spend, yet ~75% of those points will be in the same nodes FOR EVERY MECH YOU OWN because those are the skill nodes needed to actually make your mech play properly. The other 25% would have been tailored to weapon builds.

Edit: Yes, you can place your 91 points however you like, but there will always be a min/max component to skill trees, and placing your points in crappier node combos will ultimately make your mech and performance crappier (like bringing random builds and not front-loading armor does now)

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 14 March 2017 - 12:20 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 14 March 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

Stagnation of gameplay will cause gradual loss in player base, like every game out there. Loss of progression however would have been a sudden loss of player base, not exactly the same thing. The skill tree as presented by PGI doesn't actually change much from what we have now, apart from a graphical standpoint for the skill tree. You technically have 91 points to spend, yet ~75% of those points will be in the same nodes FOR EVERY MECH YOU OWN because those are the skill nodes needed to actually make your mech play properly. The other 25% would have been tailored to weapon builds.

But was it loss of progression? Was it really?

Maybe for the Pokemech collector sure... but for the average player... we already bought 3, mastered what we needed, and sold off what we didn't want anyway! That was one of the biggest issues with the old system, we were forced to buy entire mechs we didn't want.

with the new tree, you would have had to take a few nodes you didn't want, but a far smaller cost than buying entire chassis you didn't want!

And here you go again with the "THIS IS HOW YOU HAVE TO NODE, MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY SKREEEEEEEE!!!!" argument... no, no not everyone would have to skill their mechs the same way... that's the point that you and yours CONTINUE to miss.

[Vxheous]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 12:21 AM, said:

But was it loss of progression? Was it really?

Maybe for the Pokemech collector sure... but for the average player... we already bought 3, mastered what we needed, and sold off what we didn't want anyway! That was one of the biggest issues with the old system, we were forced to buy entire mechs we didn't want.

with the new tree, you would have had to take a few nodes you didn't want, but a far smaller cost than buying entire chassis you didn't want!

And here you go again with the "THIS IS HOW YOU HAVE TO NODE, MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY SKREEEEEEEE!!!!" argument... no, no not everyone would have to skill their mechs the same way... that's the point that you and yours CONTINUE to miss.

It is loss of progression for those that owned a lot of mechs but ran a lot of shared modules. There was no way they would be able to afford the c-bill costs (even reduced further after PTS 2) to get their mechs back to playing anywhere near what they are now (BTW, I would have had a 1.5 billion c-bill refund from modules, so this doesn't affect me, yet I'm still against this version of the skill tree)

I'm not missing anything in regards to the allocation of skill points. Yes, you can place your 91 points however you want, doesn't change the fact that there will be certain combinations that will be much better in the overall min/max. 21-23 pts into sensors is pretty much a must, seismic and radar dep is just that good. Movement? same thing. Defense? Min/maxing the best path to gain max armor gives you the best survival. How many points does that leave you, 20 as a real "choice"?

You don't have to follow that logic, you can place all your points into just movement and damage, and probably still do ok. Might even be fun to mess around with different point combinations in the first month, but after that, as more people find that their mechs aren't performing as good as others are, they'll eventually cookie-cutter into the best pathing. Or not, and continue with sub-par builds like people do in solo queue.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 14 March 2017 - 12:35 AM.

[L1f3H4ck]

I'm just sad right now. The vocal minority is dancing it's butt off on their sad little island. Oh well, the skill tree will come, and it's going to be better than the current system.

And no, I have no sympathy for the cheapskates whatsoever. Worrying about their mechs being gimped? Seriously? You want me to believe that a vast number of players mastered 100+ mechs, are super concerned about top performance but never bought modules? With all that experience, they find themselves unable to make a non-mastered mech work on the field? Put it back on the shelf, cuz I'm not buying it. Oh noes, the grind! So horrible! Playing the game? Can't have that! Must bask in the glory of my collection of mastered mechs and PGI better not make me play their game more!

I don't have modules for all my 180 mechs (number likely to grow cuz I AM buying mechpacks) and most of them are mastered. I would have had to grind some, and I don't care. No 3 variants nonsense, no module swapping and some actual choice. CHOICE! Don't give me your blabbering about forced nodes, when you just made me play the system which forces EVERY SINGLE NODE on me for another couple of months.

I wish they'd released the thing with 100k per node, that's how salty I am about the delay.

And Sunset Shimmer is best Equestria Girl, did I mention that already?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 14 March 2017 - 12:32 AM, said:

It is loss of progression for those that owned a lot of mechs but ran a lot of shared modules.

So what you're saying, is that it's a loss of progression for people that were gaming the existing skill/module system?

Thank you, for proving my point, that the people that whined the loudest, were the ones that were gaming the previous system. *slow clap*

here, have a cookie.

Frechdachs, on 14 March 2017 - 12:33 AM, said:

I'm just sad right now. The vocal minority is dancing it's butt off on their sad little island. Oh well, the skill tree will come, and it's going to be better than the current system.

And no, I have no sympathy for the cheapskates whatsoever. Worrying about their mechs being gimped? Seriously? You want me to believe that a vast number of players mastered 100+ mechs, are super concerned about top performance but never bought modules? With all that experience, they find themselves unable to make a non-mastered mech work on the field? Put it back on the shelf, cuz I'm not buying it. Oh noes, the grind! So horrible! Playing the game? Can't have that! Must bask in the glory of my collection of mastered mechs and PGI better not make me play their game more!

I don't have modules for all my 180 mechs (number likely to grow cuz I AM buying mechpacks) and most of them are mastered. I would have had to grind some, and I don't care. No 3 variants nonsense, no module swapping and some actual choice. CHOICE! Don't give me your blabbering about forced nodes, when you just made me play the system which forces EVERY SINGLE NODE on me for another couple of months.

I wish they'd released the thing with 100k per node, that's how salty I am about the delay.

And Sunset Shimmer is best Equestria Girl, did I mention that already?

I'm honestly in a similar feeling here... I'm of the "let's burn this motherbucker to the ground" mentality at this point.


On a pony related note, yes, thank you, Sunset is best human. haha.

[L1f3H4ck]

Monkey Lover, on 13 March 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

Its still coming out but looks like to me we're not getting another currency for the upgrades. If you planned on buying a mech with your module refund , i wouldnt plan on it anymore....
I been spending money on modules like crazy i will be stopping now lol

Uh, someone is quoting my twitter! I followed that up by the way, pointing out that some players spent cash money cbills, because they were told they'd be refunded with cash money cbills.

[Vxheous]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 12:38 AM, said:

So what you're saying, is that it's a loss of progression for people that were gaming the existing skill/module system?

Thank you, for proving my point, that the people that whined the loudest, were the ones that were gaming the previous system. *slow clap*

here, have a cookie.



I'm honestly in a similar feeling here... I'm of the "let's burn this motherbucker to the ground" mentality at this point.


On a pony related note, yes, thank you, Sunset is best human. haha.

You must have missed where PGI admitted: we had failed to provide adequate weight toward players who owned fewer Modules, swapping them from ‘Mech-to-‘Mech as needed and as facilitated by-design.

Again, this didn't affect me, I was going to get a 1.5 billion c-bill refund for my modules.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 14 March 2017 - 12:42 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

The community didn't stop it, the community raised awareness. I am sad that is even necessary. I want the skill tree, I just want it implemented without it setting back player progression and wrecking faction balance. It doesn't have to be linear for me, I can live with them using useless skills as a means to raise the cost of useful skills. Whatever. Just don't break everything by a bad implementation and baseless nerfs to the weak faction.