676 replies to this topic

[AncientRaig]

ZeroX908, on 15 March 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Considering PGI intentionally left out the production year of the HAG's, I believe that with the seemingly unbalanced division of new tech and weapons for clan and sphere, the clans will be given some leeway (i.e. alter or remove some of the weapon or crit slot nerfs). Plus if IS weapon quirks are getting removed, that on its own should make a huge difference. At first glance I admit that I was worried (as a clan loyalist) about further faction imbalance. Apparently PGI does not think clans will need the HAG post patch so I am more interested with how existing tech may or may not be altered to counteract the new IS tech.

Considering that a significant portion of the new tech being released is simply the IS's attempt to level the playing field (UACs, LBXs, LFE, LFF, ER lasers) I think that PGI probably felt that the HAG would be too difficult to balance. HAGs are the kind of weapons system that would either break this game or be less useful than a single MG on an Atlas. I don't think that RACs and MRMs are really going to be the tech that shifts the balance 180 degrees.

[Cpt Contego]

Joshua McEvedy, on 15 March 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

But IS mechs should NOT be equal to Clan mechs in fighting conditions!

In lore fair enough, but this is an online multiplayer game, without balance there is no point in factions.
What part of there needs to be balance in a game to attract/retain more players do people not get!?

[Jack Shayu Walker]

And the whine between lore and balance goes on.

This is a mechwarrior title; it breaks a few rules, you've got to get over it. So much of the lore is actually preserved, and yet you choose to focus on what hasn't been.

[Blhurr]

You'll never balance a strategy game with a shooter game. Get over it.

[Arkhangel]

S0ulReapr, on 15 March 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

According to Sarna.net:

"During the Clan Invasion the rules of zellbrigen lapsed, primarily because the Inner Sphere had no concept of Clan cultural norms and, in some cases, exploited them for "underhanded" victories. By the end of the campaign zellbrigen had all but died out in several Clans, while most still reserve it for inter-Clan confrontations or against worthy Inner Sphere warriors."

fact remains the Claws on the Kodiak are for show.

[Kangarad]

200 mrm stalker anyone?
4x30
2x40

or 6x20 120 for more ammo/heat efficiency.

you can even do a mrm80 + 2 ac 20 kgc...

hurr

Edited by Kangarad, 15 March 2017 - 07:04 PM.

[SneekiBreeki]

VonBruinwald, on 15 March 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

I also like how the mercs who are claiming neutrality and that this is massively unfair to the clans are all currently contracted with the clans...

Methinks perhaps these 'mercs' are clanners in disguise. Wolves among the sphere if you will...

Being contracted to a clan have nothing to do torwards being biased, also as i already said i would like to get not only HAGs and whatever the clans have developed past 3067, but also the remainder of the IS tech.

Hell i would be more than happy to get my hands on some blakist omnis/weapons too.

I'm greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedy!

Edited by TimberWolf87, 15 March 2017 - 07:08 PM.

[Arkhangel]

Kangarad, on 15 March 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

200 mrm stalker anyone?
4x30
2x40

or 6x20 120 for more ammo/heat efficiency.

you can even do a mrm80 + 2 ac 20 kgc...

hurr

*Feels the need to post the video from Megas XLR* "Missiles!" "More Missiles!" "ALL THE MISSILES!"

Edited by Arkhangel, 15 March 2017 - 07:08 PM.

[Frost Lord]

Nimnul, on 15 March 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

We from the IREX unit win for either side. And yes the balance is now broken. IS is stronger than clans. If you lose for IS. You are crayfish. These unreasonable quirks violated the balance. There are tactics that leave no chance for the clans. Because of the heating, they can not shoot more than once. The balance is made for losers who are always losing. What do we have now?
1. The sphere has magic quirks.
2. The sphere has more heat capacity.
3. The sphere has more capacity by weight.
4. The weight of the drop is more.
5. The sphere has the same motor. (Does not explode anymore.)
6. Sphere has the same distance.
7. The sphere has the best ballistic. Clans do not have ballistics. Ballistics of the clans is Kodiak. But no one takes it because of weight. Other bellows can not allow ballistics due to the wedge, and a strong blur of damage.
8. Clans do not have strong lights, like a sphere. Jener was killed.
9. Clans do not have light 20 tone.
10. The sphere gets more good weapons ....
11. Skills take away from the clans distance, cooldown, and seismic. Maybe speed or armor.
12. Clans no have mechs with good hardpoints. Such as a grasshopper, batlemaster, warhammer. All the clan's mechs bellows or chicken or weapons in their hands. And this is a mockery.
13. Laser duration... and pulse laser duration hit like gauss. You fools if you think the sphere is weaker. It has always been stronger than the clans it should be nerf already today. PS: I'm not afraid of innovations. We are mercenaries. We will go beyond the sphere and we will destroy even easier. But I'm afraid of losing friends, who are loyalists for the clans.This may be the last straw for many. Or, enter more weapons for the clans.

1. they are taking them away
2. yes but its more a case of consequences of having better tech
3. not if you put the same upgrades on that the clan mechs have buy defolte and clan tech is lighter and takes up less space so it evens out in most cases some clan mechs are under powered because of this but there are ways around it and the new clan tech looks like it will help this problem heavier lasers for those that lack the hard points micro lasers for those that need to balance heat.
4. the weight of the drop is always changing and might go away after we get this update and see how balanced it is.
5. the light engine? yeah but it ways more then a stranded xl/clan xl so its still not as good.
6.ER range? no they don't unless they change it but IS ERs are shorter ranged and do less damage still the only thing they might have is a shorter beam but it will probably be longer then there stranded lasers.
7.we don't know how the new UL AC ballistics are going to work they might be like the clan ones but giving the IS one weapon they do better with isn't so bad its just a pity they cant let clans switch fire modes with stranded ACs
8. yes they do Arctic cheater, Jenner iic, mist linx the cougar looks good as well. I actually like the Kit fox as a support mech and lights don't always need speed I have slow panthers and iv seen Ravens at there stranded speed do well.
9. for the same reason they decided not to do the flea they are only good when quirked like crazy.
10. the IS Will have more weapons but they aren't better just a bit more forgiving.
11.no its a percentage so because clans have more range to begin with every 1% they get is worth more then 1% to the IS same for cool down (also if heat is such a problem do you really need a better rate of fire?) I don't know if the others are true at this point
12.LOL are you kidding? you are referring to high points right? you have the shadow cat, hell bringer, line backer, ebon jager and several more. if you just mean in general well all those are good plus you have the timber wolf most of your assaults the nova and with redistribution of modules you can make most chaises good and those that are low on weapons should take targeting computers, but both sides have **** mechs the grasshopper for example is a deathtrap because its head is all center torso and no amount of torso twisting can spread the damage if you are being shot there.
13.IS laser hit like Guass? I don't think so they still have beam time andwile you are doing full damage that is also higher we are lousing damage, imagine if clans had the same beam times as IS Assaults wouldn't make it to effective firing range in one piece. this is just the difference between clan and IS you generally do better in long range fights using hit and run tactics IS work better when they keep the preasher on.

Edit: double posted for some reason

Edited by Frost Lord, 15 March 2017 - 08:46 PM.

[Arkhangel]

Frost Lord, on 15 March 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

1. they are taking them away
2. yes but its more a case of consequences of having better tech
3. not if you put the same upgrades on that the clan mechs have buy defolte and clan tech is lighter and takes up less space so it evens out in most cases some clan mechs are under powered because of this but there are ways around it and the new clan tech looks like it will help this problem heavier lasers for those that lack the hard points micro lasers for those that need to balance heat.
4. the weight of the drop is always changing and might go away after we get this update and see how balanced it is.
5. the light engine? yeah but it ways more then a stranded xl/clan xl so its still not as good.
6.ER range? no they don't unless they change it but IS ERs are shorter ranged and do less damage still the only thing they might have is a shorter beam but it will probably be longer then there stranded lasers.
7.we don't know how the new UL AC ballistics are going to work they might be like the clan ones but giving the IS one weapon they do better with isn't so bad its just a pity they cant let clans switch fire modes with stranded ACs
8. yes they do Arctic cheater, Jenner iic, mist linx the cougar looks good as well. I actually like the Kit fox as a support mech and lights don't always need speed I have slow panthers and iv seen Ravens at there stranded speed do well.
9. for the same reason they decided not to do the flea they are only good when quirked like crazy.
10. the IS Will have more weapons but they aren't better just a bit more forgiving.
11.no its a percentage so because clans have more range to begin with every 1% they get is worth more then 1% to the IS same for cool down (also if heat is such a problem do you really need a better rate of fire?) I don't know if the others are true at this point
12.LOL are you kidding? you are referring to high points right? you have the shadow cat, hell bringer, line backer, ebon jager and several more. if you just mean in general well all those are good plus you have the timber wolf most of your assaults the nova and with redistribution of modules you can make most chaises good and those that are low on weapons should take targeting computers, but both sides have **** mechs the grasshopper for example is a deathtrap because its head is all center torso and no amount of torso twisting can spread the damage if you are being shot there.
13.IS laser hit like Guass? I don't think so they still have beam time andwile you are doing full damage that is also higher we are lousing damage, imagine if clans had the same beam times as IS Assaults wouldn't make it to effective firing range in one piece. this is just the difference between clan and IS you generally do better in long range fights using hit and run tactics IS work better when they keep the preasher on.


1. they are taking them away
2. yes but its more a case of consequences of having better tech
3. not if you put the same upgrades on that the clan mechs have buy defolte and clan tech is lighter and takes up less space so it evens out in most cases some clan mechs are under powered because of this but there are ways around it and the new clan tech looks like it will help this problem heavier lasers for those that lack the hard points micro lasers for those that need to balance heat.
4. the weight of the drop is always changing and might go away after we get this update and see how balanced it is.
5. the light engine? yeah but it ways more then a stranded xl/clan xl so its still not as good.
6.ER range? no they don't unless they change it but IS ERs are shorter ranged and do less damage still the only thing they might have is a shorter beam but it will probably be longer then there stranded lasers.
7.we don't know how the new UL AC ballistics are going to work they might be like the clan ones but giving the IS one weapon they do better with isn't so bad its just a pity they cant let clans switch fire modes with stranded ACs
8. yes they do Arctic cheater, Jenner iic, mist linx the cougar looks good as well. I actually like the Kit fox as a support mech and lights don't always need speed I have slow panthers and iv seen Ravens at there stranded speed do well.
9. for the same reason they decided not to do the flea they are only good when quirked like crazy.
10. the IS Will have more weapons but they aren't better just a bit more forgiving.
11.no its a percentage so because clans have more range to begin with every 1% they get is worth more then 1% to the IS same for cool down (also if heat is such a problem do you really need a better rate of fire?) I don't know if the others are true at this point
12.LOL are you kidding? you are referring to high points right? you have the shadow cat, hell bringer, line backer, ebon jager and several more. if you just mean in general well all those are good plus you have the timber wolf most of your assaults the nova and with redistribution of modules you can make most chaises good and those that are low on weapons should take targeting computers, but both sides have **** mechs the grasshopper for example is a deathtrap because its head is all center torso and no amount of torso twisting can spread the damage if you are being shot there.
13.IS laser hit like Guass? I don't think so they still have beam time andwile you are doing full damage that is also higher we are lousing damage, imagine if clans had the same beam times as IS Assaults wouldn't make it to effective firing range in one piece. this is just the difference between clan and IS you generally do better in long range fights using hit and run tactics IS work better when they keep the preasher on.

You double posted that, Frost.

[Edward Hazen]

El Contego, on 15 March 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

In lore fair enough, but this is an online multiplayer game, without balance there is no point in factions.
What part of there needs to be balance in a game to attract/retain more players do people not get!?

Without differences between Mechs, it would be a very boring game. #NOCODWITHMECHSKINS

[cougurt]

S0ulReapr, on 15 March 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

Without differences between Mechs, it would be a very boring game. #NOCODWITHMECHSKINS

you can have differences between the mechs and still retain some level of balance. you know, kind of like they've already done? i think it would also be a very boring game with 90% of players using only clan mechs.

Edited by cougurt, 15 March 2017 - 09:17 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

S0ulReapr, on 15 March 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

Without differences between Mechs, it would be a very boring game. #NOCODWITHMECHSKINS

There can be differences between factions and still be balance. ATM, IS has bulkier, older, tougher and not quite as good stuff as Clans. Clans have nicer, more of, not quite as tough equipment with longer range. There is your differences.


If you like having the advantage and keeping it, go find another game to play. Extra equipment for IS starts to even things up. Now just need to work on PGI making the IS XL not insta death on ST loss.

[Edward Hazen]

Carl Vickers, on 15 March 2017 - 09:19 PM, said:

There can be differences between factions and still be balance. ATM, IS has bulkier, older, tougher and not quite as good stuff as Clans. Clans have nicer, more of, not quite as tough equipment with longer range. There is your differences.


If you like having the advantage and keeping it, go find another game to play. Extra equipment for IS starts to even things up. Now just need to work on PGI making the IS XL not insta death on ST loss.

IS XL should always get instant death, you will get Light Fusion or you can pick standard. PGI either needs to keep things close to lore, or just allow mixed tech a la MW4 and then half of us will quit and the rest will be happy.

[Carl Vickers]

Nope nope and nope. No mixed tech, balance can be achieved if PGI doesnt listen to the lorenards. LFE is still a pale reflection of Clan XL, that is not going to change, try to look at it from both sides instead of being a one eyed clanner trying to keep his crutches.

[Edward Hazen]

Carl Vickers, on 15 March 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

Nope nope and nope. No mixed tech, balance can be achieved if PGI doesnt listen to the lorenards. LFE is still a pale reflection of Clan XL, that is not going to change, try to look at it from both sides instead of being a one eyed clanner trying to keep his crutches.

How is that different than being an over-quirked IS pilot wanting better crutches?

Edited by S0ulReapr, 15 March 2017 - 09:55 PM.

[Frost Lord]

Arkhangel, on 15 March 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

You double posted that, Frost.

already fixed it

[Carl Vickers]

S0ulReapr, on 15 March 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

How is that different than being an over-quirked IS pilot wanting better crutches?

I will be happy when they get rid of quirks or at least make them make sense. Clanners got better more advanced equipment and basically easy mode to play compared to IS, if you dont get it by now, theres not much I can do.

[SuperFunkTron]

The new balance pass is making me wonder if they are reconsidering star vs lance set ups for fp now.

[Zergling]

Digital_Angel, on 14 March 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

As someone who plays both, I thought the balance was pretty decent, but maybe this will let them unnerf the Clan DHS some without breaking balance.

Cowboy1, on 14 March 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

These changes will be nice. Although I'm hoping that with these new weapons the nerf to clan laser heat and heat sinks will go away.

Tilakkam, on 14 March 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

I am fine with IS new toys and i dont need your light tag or cap - just unnerf Clan heat.

Clan heat sinks were better than Inner Sphere for a long time; it was only in the December patch that they were made equal.

Creepus, on 14 March 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

No MRMs for clans, sad.

Clans never had MRMs in lore. The Streak MRMs they had in MW4 were not canon.

Nimnul, on 15 March 2017 - 03:24 AM, said:

What kind of lies? The sphere receives ER med laser. And it has better duration.

With same heat, worse range and worse damage.

Corviness, on 15 March 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

Nice upgrade, pgi!

Don't understand those IS-guys, who think clanners will bitching. Probably, all time IS guys crying, thats why clans get nerfed since they are implemented.

Now PGI can delete all dequirks on clanside, like on heatmanagement, weaponrange, etc., because IS don't need it anymore.

If you don't you will have the same problem since claninvasion, but now on IS side, who must get nerfed, instead of clan.

It is highly unlikely most IS mechs will be equal to most Clan mechs even with these new weapons and tech.

It will likely be a buff to IS that will allow for quirks to be reduced, but it is highly unlikely the quirks will be removed entirely, just as weaker Clan will still require their quirks.

Nimnul, on 15 March 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

The balance is made for losers who are always losing. What do we have now?
1. The sphere has magic quirks.
2. The sphere has more heat capacity.
3. The sphere has more capacity by weight.
4. The weight of the drop is more.
5. The sphere has the same motor. (Does not explode anymore.)
6. Sphere has the same distance.
7. The sphere has the best ballistic. Clans do not have ballistics. Ballistics of the clans is Kodiak. But no one takes it because of weight. Other bellows can not allow ballistics due to the wedge, and a strong blur of damage.
8. Clans do not have strong lights, like a sphere. Jener was killed.
9. Clans do not have light 20 tone.
10. The sphere gets more good weapons ....
11. Skills take away from the clans distance, cooldown, and seismic. Maybe speed or armor.
12. Clans no have mechs with good hardpoints. Such as a grasshopper, batlemaster, warhammer. All the clan's mechs bellows or chicken or weapons in their hands. And this is a mockery.
13. Laser duration... and pulse laser duration hit like gauss.

1: So do Clans
2: Completely utterly false.
3: Again, completely false.
4: Irrelevant outside of Faction Play, and the different drop weight limits are entirely because Clans are stronger.
5: False, the Light Fusion Engine weighs more than the Clan XL engine.
6: False, Inner Sphere ER Lasers still have shorter range than Clan ER Lasers.
7: Utter BS. Clan UAC and Gauss are blatantly better than IS counterparts, and there are plenty of Clan mechs that aren't the Kodiak that can run it. And again, weights are irrelevant outside of Faction Play.
8: Ever heard of the Arctic Cheetah, which is still widely regarded as the best light in the game?
9: So what? That's irrelevant outside of Faction Play.
10: Unknown/speculation, and right now Clans have more good weapons than IS.
11: What? How the hell does that benefit Clans and not IS?
12: Complete and utter BS. Kodiak, Night Gyr, Hellbringer and many more have good hardpoints.
13: Once again, completely false. IS Large Pulse, even with -20% laser duration quirk, is still over half a second in duration.

Nimnul, on 15 March 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

You fools if you think the sphere is weaker. It has always been stronger than the clans it should be nerf already today.

This plus the falsehoods you posted above indicates you are completely detached from reality.

S0ulReapr, on 15 March 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

Correct, this is "A BATTLETECH GAME".

Correction: this is a PvP game, first and foremost. And balance is paramount in a PvP game.

MWO was always designed so each player would be roughly equal in capabilities to another player, regardless of what mech choice they made before queuing up for battle.
Having Clan mechs be stronger because of lore reasons is in direct conflict with this design, and would cause a severe population unbalance, with the vast majority of players only playing Clan mechs.

As such, any suggestion to drop balance in favour of lore is a bad suggestion, as it would quickly kill MWO.

S0ulReapr, on 15 March 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

Without differences between Mechs, it would be a very boring game. #NOCODWITHMECHSKINS

This is a strawman and hyperbole.

SuperFunkTron, on 15 March 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

The new balance pass is making me wonder if they are reconsidering star vs lance set ups for fp now.

Doubtful; MWO was never designed for asymmetric balance.

Edited by Zergling, 15 March 2017 - 11:33 PM.