676 replies to this topic

[AdamBaines]

Slambot, on 16 March 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

Uh the machine spirit is Warhammer... not Battletech

Yes you are right, but it's also in Btech. Comstar (the old Comstar) also takes this approach. The Acolytes that are at the HPG installation specifically, and more importantly, the WoB.

A sample from Sarna: Many ComStar adepts actually believe that their prayers are just as important for the proper operation of machinery as operations procedures from the manual. The concept of "repair prayer" has become a running joke that some still take very seriously"

So we gotta watch that guy....showing Wobbie tendencies.......

Edited by AdamBaines, 16 March 2017 - 07:08 AM.

[Weepy Wanebow]

Joshua McEvedy, on 16 March 2017 - 04:50 AM, said:

And responses like that are exactly why the Clan players are being driven off. Good luck fighting with yourself.

Except that "suck it up" was the response the clans gave IS pilots when they were steam rolling anything IS for the first few months, which was fine until it turned to "your fault for playing stupid IS mechs" around CW/FW 3. Then there was the mass exodus of IS pilots to clan, IS pilots to quick play, and IS pilots to another game all together.

No one wants to feel like their choices or favorite things are being invalidated or damaged but at a certain point we have to admit that there are balance issues and that while some of the numbers point to different things, a big part of balance is undeniably subjective and based on personal opinion.

A PvP game, regardless of what its based on has to have some level of balance and similarity in performance or it isnt good for anyone and people will leave. Since mixed tech seems to be off the table there are only so many other options left.

[Arkhangel]

Any Clanners whining that RACs will be broken should consider this. They'll be the first IS Ballistic that actually causes us to shut down and actually WANT a Jam to happen. the things cause 1 heat per shot, and they fire about 8 shots per second in tabletop.

Add that up. that means you'd be limited to firing for about give or take 10 seconds just with one, assuming it didn't jam, AND have to track the target with it (incentive for people to learn to move rather than stand still). That's just with one. Carrying two? 5 seconds. Carrying three? 2.5, carrying four? 1.25 seconds, and any mech even trying this would have to carry as many tons of heat sinks as ammo, and not really be able to use any other weapon. There's also the fact the spinup and spindown for the gun would make them horrible for snapshot.

You'd literally be able to screw over a RAC user simply by, you know, moving around.

[Mcgral18]

By Mecha Cthulhu...the amount of Potato in this thread is sickening

Creepus, on 14 March 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

Nope, they are diffrent. ATM shoots single misile which does a huge area damage.

False
Arrow IV would hit a large area
ThunderBolts would deal single location high damage

ATMs are just variable damage LRMs (assuming, they could use Bone targeting as well, which would be a significant nerf to Torso seeking)

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 15 March 2017 - 01:16 AM, said:

Laser Anti-Missile System has be laughing out loud ...

I like the idea, but overheating a LAMS-equipped 'mech with chain-fired LRM-5s will be gold. Do they only fit on AMS hardpoints, LAMS hardpoints, or any energy hardpoint? (If the latter, I welcome our new 9-13+-LAMS overlords.)


Obligatory Skill Tree-Related Gripe: It's a shame that you will charge me over and over again to try out the effect of different skills on the same 'mechs when swapping out weapons. Would it be possible to unlock skill re-spec for the testing grounds?

LAMS will have no chance of shutting you down unless you bring 4 of them
The source heat is 0.5 and 0.7 Heat per second, while 10 TrueDubs dissipate 2.3 H/s on a mastered mech.
Light Ferro is an absolute joke in comparison to cFF
It's the same cost, but it gives LESS than a third of the benefit. 6% compared to the 20%

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 March 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

I don't disagree with the majority of your statement, however I'm calling it right now...

The Annihilator will dethrone the Kodiak as the biggest baddest Assault. Sure it won't be as fast, but the 2A will be putting to shame even the MAL-90X and the KDK-3 in terms of ridiculous ballistic boating. It will be the only chassis capable of carrying five Rotary-5s (even six if you feel like making it a troll build), it will be the only chassis able to carry four Rotary 5's and still be able to carry a Light Engine, It will be the only chassis capable of carrying four standard IS AC/10s, and it will be the only chassis capable of carrying 4 IS UAC/10s.

All that, and all that you need is just in the Standard Pack.

Brings a tear to my eye to see my very first vehicle from my very first video game become a God~ <3
-Preordered for touching me in the childhood-

...you'd be going slower than a Whale at that point, wouldn't you?

Kodiak has the 60+ Kph, which means it can bring guns to where they're needed.
There's also the potential heat issue with RACs...but we'll see, in time

Vanguard319, on 15 March 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

Unless they get rid of ghost heat, or give clans true dhs, I have this bad feeling that heavy lasers will be nearly useless, even with the increased dmg. I'm also worried about how they implement RACs, I like them, but I can see how utterly broken they can be, especially since PGI couldn't balance weapons to save their own lives. On the plus side, my Protector finally gets it's snub-nose PPC, and Cougar :3

You already have TT heatsinks until 20, on a mastered robot. Buffed TrueDubs make up for the gimped PoorDubs. Of course, this will be changing with the coming Skill Cloud. They decreased the CoolRun skill.
Of course, on a HLL mech, you'd be bringing closer to 30, so worse than source

Mechanic Devil, on 15 March 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

So will clan tech get is down nerf removed? SInce now IS will be = to clan tech?

Spheroid tech will still pale in comparison to Clam tech
Some of the new stuff may be good, but generally speaking, the top things currently should stay at the top
And that's cGauss, cERPPCs and mechs using cXLs

Arkhangel, on 15 March 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

Dude, he means WEAPONS TECH for toys. Not mechs.

@Mechanic: Honestly, you probably WANT that Jam. since without it, your mech is likely to cook. my unit did some math, and you could overheat a Mech boating RACs in roughly three seconds, judging with 1 heat per shot, roughly 8 shots a second per RAC. Adds up pretty damn fast. Course, you could also do 33.3 damage in a second with a pair of RAC/2s, so it really is a decent tradeoff.

Why the hell would a RAC be shooting 8 shots a second at 1 heat?
Do you SERIOUSLY think they'd be shooting 5 damage and 8 shots in a second?
That's ridiculous


They should offer good DPS, but that's just not thought out logically.
They will be hot, and without PGI intervention, the RAC2 being the same heat as the RAC5 (no sub-1 heat on TT)

Nimnul, on 15 March 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

Ever since the update ...


LIGHT ENGINE

An Inner Sphere engine that can survive the loss of a side torso as it only occupies 2 critical slots in each side. Lighter than a standard engine, but heavier than an XL.



ER SMALL LASER / ER MEDIUM LASER

Inner Sphere versions of the ER Lasers.

So, a engine that's worse than the cXL, and lasers which will probably end up worse than cER lasers


Of course, balance!

[Arkhangel]

@Mcgra: actually... those 8 shots in a second, per the math my corpsmate did, would actually be doing about 15.15 damage.

[Arkhangel]

@ W E N D I G O: Nice to see a Clanner who actually focuses on skill. Honestly we got way too many guys on both sides who whine and moan that it's the tech's fault.

A competent pilot is going to be dangerous in a Mech, regardless of its side. Always has been this way. Always will.

sure, the tech can HELP a little, but it really doesn't do a damn thing for a crap pilot.

[SuperFunkTron]

I think they need to start pushing faction specific mechs and eventually quirks shortly after they introduce the weapons. With A major overhaul of the system and an increasingly large stable of mech for both sides, its about time that we start to see some faction character and preferences emerge.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Wendigo Waltz, on 16 March 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

But in a PvP game you can't have one side be totally dominating with no compromise. Thats not how a game keeps going. They either don't release clans at all or they nerf in an attempt to balance. When that isn't working they try to offer more options, a lot of similar options primarily. If it is obvious that adding more options with current nerfs and such in place seriously harm balance then you reduce or eliminate some of those nerfs.

There is an easy fix. Starcraft does it. One side has better tech but less bodies & the other has more bodies but lower grade tech. And that is EXACTLY how is was in Battletech lore. Even if it was one side being adjusted might have been tolerable but they hit BOTH sides. If everyone started at 5, they buffed the IS to 7, then 8 , then 9 while nerfing the Clans down to 4, then 3 then 2.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I am a little tired of people saying that a weapon with low heat/damage ratio, but a high rate of fire, would be considered a "hot weapon."

It's not. Heat/damage ratio is how you determine if a weapon is truly "hot" or not. Twin ERPPCs? Hot. Several RAC/5s? Cool. Even if you have several of them cranking out much heat, the fact that the damage output is so high, dwarfing the heat output in comparison (more than 3dmg per heat), means that you don't have "hot weapons," you just have "much firepower."

Edited by Prosperity Park, 16 March 2017 - 08:01 AM.

[UnseenFury]

These weapons are great, I'm incredibly excited for unguided missiles!!!

However, they will not save the game because current maps and gamemodes are absolutely terrible. Bad small maps and these gamemodes make a repetitive boring fights in the same places all the time. Stupid CoD or WoT gameplay.

We need REAL GIANT maps with Battletech feel with a gamemode from MWLL - 7 or more capture spots on the maps, 3 respawn points per each side of the map and infinite mech spawn.

That would make for a interesting and diverse gameplay that would be incredibly fun!

Also, game longevity should be made like that: every mech should have its level (just a number) with an infinite leveling, and the more you play and kill with that mech - the more you can paint some cool stuff on its body.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Jaroth Corbett, on 16 March 2017 - 06:17 AM, said:

Clan Wolf researched the Laser AMS in 3045 & put it into production on 3048 which means as soon as Clans were launched (Wave I) we should have had it. But they give it to us the same time as the IS & that is balance? OK White Knight....................




WHAT ADVANTAGE? Clans have been nerfed out of the gate. As soon as they were launched Russ or Paul said they would be nerfed for balance. A Hunchback has more internal structure than a DireWolf & that is balance? Clan mechs are supposed to outperform IS mechs until RIGHT NOW. THIS is the time they catch up. Wow you White Knights are coming out the woodwork today.

I've never been called a white knight before, Thank You. .. but seriously dude AMS .... that's the balance point your going with. Not one of my 130 mechs has AMS in it IS or Clan.

[Tank]

One thing I got clear from this thread. If someone whine that Clan tech is not superior to IS - they are just bad pilots that can't utilize it full potential.

Clans have better risk/reward going for them, specially shines if things get more competitive and with teamplay in mind.
Yes, devs continuously mitigated that over time - that is the whole reason why we have them no like in TT!
Too many people just want "I WIN!" button these days.


So munch for "Trueborn" warriors of the Clans...


P.S. I would love to have true Clanners and true power of Clan tech, but will these people in this thread fight with honor? Or 1vs3, or 1vs5. Hell, I would even would add Sibko program/mini tournament where only the best pilots get to pilot Clan tech with limited amount of seats in each Clan.

But over the years I'm convicted that most people just wish for proverbial "I WIN" button.

[Commander James Raynor]

Jesus... a lot of petty and childish guys here. Well, I guess that's the internet for you. I wonder if those bitter pilots (from both sides) really think that they've always been at a disadvantage and every time they lost was because of the tech, but every time they won was because they were that much better. I get that it is easier to believe that, but aren't we all adults? (Or almost).

On the more important topic of the new tech, I (as a clan pilot, obviously) am worried about the IS UAC's and the RAC's. If the new UACS's have a single shot, then they'll be SO MUCH better than any other weapon in the game, by a lot. Two AC20 to any component in quick succession is just too much. The RAC's don't so much worry me as they make me sad for not having them. I'm sure there are ways of balancing their high dps with heat, delay on shot, precission, etc.
Anyway, I'm buying more IS mechs to be ready to mount those RAC's when the patch comes.

And about the pettiness. Really, guys? Happy to see all the clan tears? Claiming IS is OP when it's clear it's not? What's with this tribal mentality of "there is us and there is them"?

[TWIAFU]

Arkhangel, on 14 March 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

You already HAVE most of what the IS is getting.

Fake News.

[Lightfoot]

Doesn't seem very balanced. I.S. gets RACs, two special armors, the XL Engines that made them weak/slow in the current game, Light/Heavy/Snub-Nose PPCs, MRMs, Rocket Launchers, and much more to make I.S Tech equal to Clan Tech.

Clans get ATMs and Heavy Lasers. Looking at current Clan LRMs and their extra nerfs of streaming and requirement of being nearly head-on to do damage to mechs I don't think ATM's will be granted any of their normal capabilities and be heavily nerfed like LRMs. Heavy Lasers won't work in MWO for the same reason the Supernova can't run 6x ER Larges in 3 by 3 salvos. Heavy lasers will cap the heat levels with 1 Heavy Large laser is what I am thinking, no way to run two without 30 Double Heatsinks at which point you are wasting payload space.

You are going to add the Novacat at some point, why not add it's Reflective Armor. Why don't the Clans get some kind of Stealth Armor also.

At the point of the Civil War Tech release the Inner Sphere becomes better equipped than Clan Tech except for the weight and space savings, but I.S. tech is much cooler running and/or more accurate.

I play both factions with two characters so I have no personal bias. Clan Tech is held under a lot of restrictions like fixed equipment and the mechs get few if any Quirks. Do you have a plan for giving the Clan mechs comparable Quirks to Inner Sphere? If not you should start planning what you will change once the two factions are essentially of equal tech ability.

Edited by Lightfoot, 16 March 2017 - 10:33 AM.

[Edward Hazen]

Carl Vickers, on 15 March 2017 - 09:58 PM, said:

I will be happy when they get rid of quirks or at least make them make sense. Clanners got better more advanced equipment and basically easy mode to play compared to IS, if you dont get it by now, theres not much I can do.

Learning how to manage the extra heat, A/C streamfire spread, and incredibly long laser burn times of Clan weapons is not "easy mode". There is a reason that there are more skilled pilots on the Clan side and it is not just the "advanced" tech.

[Aramuside]

Gabriel Phoenix, on 15 March 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

This my friend is a lie!! You guys had more mech than us for a long time. You have had heros and champion for 2 years before clan had theirs.

Yes they had the Pretty Baby and you had the Kodiak 3.... such hard ship you suffered under.

[Duvanor]

Aramuside, on 16 March 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

Yes they had the Pretty Baby and you had the Kodiak 3.... such hard ship you suffered under.

Without timewarp it was hardly possible to play a Kodiak during the time we had no hero mechs on Clan side. Just saying. And there were other hero mechs available than the Pretty Baby. But Hero Mechs do not make a big difference, so that point is mood.

[Aramuside]

Duvanor, on 16 March 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Without timewarp it was hardly possible to play a Kodiak during the time we had no hero mechs on Clan side. Just saying. And there were other hero mechs available than the Pretty Baby. But Hero Mechs do not make a big difference, so that point is mood.

The comment that clans were somehow disadvantaged because they "only" had mechs like the Night Gyr and Kodiak is laughable particularly when Invasion and pack etc versions gave the 30% bonus whereas the hero mechs often forced you to play in an awful or just moderate mech to get the bonus....

Coincidentally, I play both sides depending on how I and my unit feel so no preference either way. Simply making the point that a lot of the claims on both sides of this thread are laughable.

[Oberost]

S0ulReapr, on 16 March 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

Learning how to manage the extra heat, A/C streamfire spread, and incredibly long laser burn times of Clan weapons is not "easy mode". There is a reason that there are more skilled pilots on the Clan side and it is not just the "advanced" tech.

Really?
And what's that reason?