676 replies to this topic

[Zergling]

If Heavy PPC does 10 + 2.5 + 2.5 damage, it won't be worth using over the regular PPC and Snub-Nosed.

And the Clan ER PPC is in a good place right now, so it doesn't need buffs.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Personally, I'm still trying to figure out the logic behind many of the complaints on this thread... mostly because these complaints are based on nothing more than wild speculation.

The only thing we know is the following:
- There are new weapons and technologies for both sides (many of which people have been *begging* for since at least 2013)
- The Inner Sphere is getting weapons/tech that will (somewhat) normalize the most egregious advantages that the Clans have that have been the source of legitimate complaints (XL-Engines that are objectively superior to Standard Engines [seriously, why would you put a Standard Engine on a Clan mech?], for example) since their release
- The Inner Sphere is getting a wider variety of Autocannons and lasers (which the Clans have)
- These weapons/technologies will bring some interesting variety to the field

We don't have hard numbers for weight, damage, ammunition, space or even game-mechanics. Sure, we some idea of what some of that is (will the damage/range/weight ratio for Light & Heavy Gauss, Machineguns or PPC be worthwhile? Will MRMs work exactly like SRMs or will work more like dumb-fire LRMs? How much heat are we talking for the Laser AMS?).

Attempting to answer these questions without any solid information is an exercise of insanity. Sure, the TT rules may be a reasonable place to look, but means little because PGI has already altered how many pieces of tech work and have deviated significantly from the source material for various reasons.
To me, it is akin to people locked in a room with no windows arguing about whether or not it's raining outside and then making complaints about said rain (or lackthereof).

There's really no purpose in getting all bent out of shape over something that has so many variables and factors that are, at present, unknown to us.

[BLOOD WOLF]

W E N D I G O, on 25 March 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

@PGI will Clan Smoke Jaguar be removed from the game when the Civil War era starts?

probably not

[Edward Hazen]

BLOOD WOLF, on 25 March 2017 - 04:25 PM, said:

probably not

They have not even added the Fedcom, or Ghost Bear Dominion, let alone all the states that the Free Worlds League and Capellans Confederation break into.

I would love to see simultaneous events, Steiner vs Davion for IS and Jade Falcon vs Wolf for Clans. The other IS factions could side with either Davion or Steiner and the other Clan factions could side with either Clan Jade Falcon or Clan Wolf (lore wise, Smoke Jag would help Jade Falcon and Ghost Bear would help Wolf).

[Lionheart2012]

How did this match up to predictions? Let's see....

[Knight2416]

Well I play both Clan and IS and can see both sides.
First now IS have alot of the same weapons (yes tonnage and range are different from Clans but so is your heat, duration,and as mentioned below health)
Clans should then get back the ability to change engines and remove JJ (which you stated we lost due to the weapon in-balance).
Clans lost internal health last patch and it shows (at least in the 12 games I played after the patch). This is due to the weapon duration Nerf that was included on Clans forcing the need to stay on target longer so either they are in the open (risk of return fire) for longer or take a drop in damage to target to save damage to them (dropping into cover).

I will not spend anymore funds on this game until I see skill changes. If balance is still off I will just wait for Battletech and maybe Mechwarrior 5 Merc's (if PGI manage to not to mess it up).

[Weepy Wanebow]

Edward Hazen, on 24 March 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

I hear this all the time from IS pilots who have benefited from "easy mode" quirks for years. This aside, I do not have an issue with IS getting more pieces of advanced tech as long as Heavy Gauss are not OP, ATMs don't suck and Heavy lasers are not insanely nerfed.

I doubt they will be. Can only be mounted in a torso location and only on a mech with a STD engine . Has more limited range...In table top it has variable damage via which range increment it hits it's target at. Even though they are literally doing this for ATMs, it doesn't seem to be the case with heavy Gauss or snub nose PPC....How they do either is anyone's guess....Regardless, I suspect longer charge time then standard Gauss and limited to charging 1 at a time. If range is limited too much, expect not to see it as AC, LBX, UAC 20s will all be better options...Even if the heavy Gauss has better range then those. The lack of charge goes a long way, as will being able to chain fire 2.

I think light Gauss may be a bigger issue..I suspect you'll be able to charge 3 at the same time. 24 point pin point from outside nearly any other direct fire weapons range

[Mr Blonde]

Naglinator, on 14 March 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Glad there is no IS bias in this... oh wait....

I'm OK with it as long as Clan weapons revert to what they should be. Especially the PPC's, which in TT are the most feared of Clan weapons, but on here are no better than IS models. Also don't see the HAG listed as an addition, perhaps I just missed it.

I haven't seen that any new factions are coming online, which will throw their adherence to the source material out the window I suppose. There's a little Steel Viper hiding in all of us I think, and dammit we should at last see the mighty Magistry of Canopus hit the field!

Edited by Mr Blonde, 26 March 2017 - 05:07 AM.

[MovinTarget]

I would exactly say clam ppcs are "no better" than IS, i won't disagree that they are not the same as TT, but the tonnage/size/splash damage are all positives you don't get in IS. Again, i agree with most of what you say, just can't agree on that particular statement...

[Zergling]

Yeah, Clan ER PPC is quite superior to the IS PPC and ER PPC in MWO. Maybe not as much as in TT, but still superior.

[Edward Hazen]

Wendigo Waltz, on 26 March 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

I doubt they will be. Can only be mounted in a torso location and only on a mech with a STD engine . Has more limited range...In table top it has variable damage via which range increment it hits it's target at. Even though they are literally doing this for ATMs, it doesn't seem to be the case with heavy Gauss or snub nose PPC....How they do either is anyone's guess....Regardless, I suspect longer charge time then standard Gauss and limited to charging 1 at a time. If range is limited too much, expect not to see it as AC, LBX, UAC 20s will all be better options...Even if the heavy Gauss has better range then those. The lack of charge goes a long way, as will being able to chain fire 2.

I think light Gauss may be a bigger issue..I suspect you'll be able to charge 3 at the same time. 24 point pin point from outside nearly any other direct fire weapons range

I had not thought about the Light Gauss, but you have some interesting points. As far as ATMs, I envision that the their damage so be the inverse of Clan LRM damage (LRMs do less damage the closer you are to the target, ATMs would do more damage the closer you are to the target and less the further you are). As far as missile spread, I think that ATMs should work similarly to an LBx Autocannons (tighter spread to wider depending on distance from the target). Also, has PGI stated weather Artemis will work with ATMs?

[Mcgral18]

Wendigo Waltz, on 26 March 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

I think light Gauss may be a bigger issue..I suspect you'll be able to charge 3 at the same time. 24 point pin point from outside nearly any other direct fire weapons range

LGauss will more than likely be a complete joke

12 tons for 8 damage
750M range

Why not a Gauss Rifle for 15 tons, 15 damage, 660M range?


HGauss needs the STD, and if you restrict it to firing a single HGauss at a time, you remove it from serious consideration, and add yet another advantage to the Clam arsenal: 50 PP FLD
If the Clams can do it for 36 tons with a XL engine, why exactly can't the Sphere do it for 36 tons and an STD engine?
2cGauss+2cERPPC
Not to mention, at significantly longer ranges (and considerably faster speeds)



Unless they give the LGauss no charge, 3 KM/s, and/or a damage buff, it will be a complete joke.
You could even add 3x Max Range into the mix there, if there is a charge.

[Weepy Wanebow]

Edward Hazen, on 26 March 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

I had not thought about the Light Gauss, but you have some interesting points. As far as ATMs, I envision that the their damage so be the inverse of Clan LRM damage (LRMs do less damage the closer you are to the target, ATMs would do more damage the closer you are to the target and less the further you are). As far as missile spread, I think that ATMs should work similarly to an LBx Autocannons (tighter spread to wider depending on distance from the target). Also, has PGI stated weather Artemis will work with ATMs?

In table top, ATM has a built in artemis.

[Weepy Wanebow]

Mcgral18, on 26 March 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

HGauss needs the STD, and if you restrict it to firing a single HGauss at a time, you remove it from serious consideration, and add yet another advantage to the Clam arsenal: 50 PP FLD
If the Clams can do it for 36 tons with a XL engine, why exactly can't the Sphere do it for 36 tons and an STD engine?
2cGauss+2cERPPC
Not to mention, at significantly longer ranges (and considerably faster speeds)

Uhm..wut?

Mcgral18, on 26 March 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

LGauss will more than likely be a complete joke

12 tons for 8 damage
750M range

Why not a Gauss Rifle for 15 tons, 15 damage, 660M

Unless they give the LGauss no charge, 3 KM/s, and/or a damage buff, it will be a complete joke.
You could even add 3x Max Range into the mix there, if there is a charge.

Its gonna be heavy and there are better options out there for sure but Im sure we will see it. If it has no charge time or a super short, may as well not even be there charge time, then it will be "not a terrible weapon". 3 of them may be terrible for sure but its effective range is just a hair longer then any other direct fire weapon and I'm sure that its max range will be too. There will be some heavy or assault build that utilizes it as a super sniper I'm sure. If the pilot is even a semi-decent shot, its gonna sting.....again, better options but there are definitely people who get off on taking subpar stuff and doing a decent job in it. If those type of people do decent enough, there will be plenty of copy cats

[Mcgral18]

Wendigo Waltz, on 27 March 2017 - 05:02 AM, said:

Uhm..wut?



Its gonna be heavy and there are better options out there for sure but Im sure we will see it. If it has no charge time or a super short, may as well not even be there charge time, then it will be "not a terrible weapon". 3 of them may be terrible for sure but its effective range is just a hair longer then any other direct fire weapon and I'm sure that its max range will be too. There will be some heavy or assault build that utilizes it as a super sniper I'm sure. If the pilot is even a semi-decent shot, its gonna sting.....again, better options but there are definitely people who get off on taking subpar stuff and doing a decent job in it. If those type of people do decent enough, there will be plenty of copy cats

What don't you get about the STD Whale speed isAssault with HGauss VS 62+ KPh PokeBear?
HGauss needs to be good, or it just won't be taken. It needs massive sacrifices to equip

cERPPC is a longer range weapon, without 3x range
ERLLs offer the extreme range brackets
2ERPPC for 12 tons VS 12 tons Per LG
20 Dam (longer ranged) vs 8 dam

Add a second LGauss and 10 heatsinks plus TC, you still get a better long range Clam build
Unless it has no charge, 3x range and 3Km/s vel
That's about the only way it could exceed cERPPCs at the range game, and compare with ERLLs at extreme range.
Increasing damage then has issues with AC10, but that's always been mediocre.

[Ghos7bearD]

Eric Portenelli, on 14 March 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

I own both, the Uziel and Thanatos were NOT in Mechwarrior 2 anything, trust me. I still play the MW 2 games on my old comp every couple of years.

To end this discussion: http://www.sarna.net...red_BattleMechs

;-)

[Asmosis]

Sidefire, on 14 March 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

Lolwhut? A huge leg up? Sorry, can't hear you over the fact that your tech is still better. Please explain to me how getting slightly closer to general tech parity somehow makes the IS more powerful than the Clans? You still have the better DHS, Endo, Ferro, engines, weapons, and now that you have Battlemechs you have access to the ability to customize some of your best mechs just like the IS does. None of our tech matches up to your basic invasion tech. You still have better range, damage, and weight. Now, I'm all for making DHS actually DOUBLE heat sinks instead of 1.5x heat sinks, but we saw the result of the other things you want and it was game breaking. Get back to the salt mines, my steak is a little bland.

Where your going wrong is you are failing to take into account pilot skill. Inner Sphere pilots are vastly superior to clan pilots, so it stands to reason if you give IS pilots tech even close to clan pilots, overall IS will become vastly superior.

[Corviness]

Asmosis, on 28 March 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

Where your going wrong is you are failing to take into account pilot skill. Inner Sphere pilots are vastly superior to clan pilots, so it stands to reason if you give IS pilots tech even close to clan pilots, overall IS will become vastly superior.

What? Vastly superior? In which universe do you life? Today clan and IS pilots are nearly on the same skill level.

Clanner Mechs have more range, IS Mechs gots quicker weapons.

Where is your statistic and please dont answer with, I saw this, like "I played 3 x Faction Warfare and know everything." Thats ********.

[Arkaiko]

Klappspaten, on 24 March 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

The new tech isn't even out and the canister bred are already complaining. What is it boys, afraid of losing your easy mode?

agreed 100%
clans got overall better range and damage, c-AC guns are lighter than IS variants, the actual clan weapons are better than the incoming IS weapons, but the clan players are afraid to lose the "easy mode", this tread speak for itself

[Arkaiko]

Corviness, on 28 March 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

What? Vastly superior? In which universe do you life? Today clan and IS pilots are nearly on the same skill level.

Clanner Mechs have more range, IS Mechs gots quicker weapons.

Where is your statistic and please dont answer with, I saw this, like "I played 3 x Faction Warfare and know everything." Thats ********.

IS ERPPC: 10 damage, 13.5 heat, 810 range, 7tons
CLAN cERPPC: 15 damage, 14 heat, 810 range, 6 tons / BETTER (just0,5 more heat for 50% more damage and lighter)

IS ERLL: 9 damage, 8 heat, 657 range, 5tons
CLAN cERLL: 11 damage, 10 heat, 740 range, 4 tons / BETTER (2 more heat, but more range and damage and lighter)

IS LPL: 11 damage, 7 heat, 365 range, 7tons
CLAN cLPL: 13 damage, 10 heat, 600 range, 6 tons /BETTER (2 ore damage, almost same range as IS ERLL and lighter)
clan tech is overal lighter, got more range and better damage than IS variants, in fact the only worst is the heat, and isnt so much, but clan players are whining for heat from begginning, with the new skill tree clan weapons gonna get quirks too, so, why clan players are stil whinning?