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New Inner Sphere Mechs Are Lackluster Compared To Clan Ones.

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#61 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:28 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 14 March 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

4 streak 6s with terribad hit boxes, at 85 kph. I have Assault mechs that do 85 kph.


So it will be a light mech in the middle of the pack with 50-tonner firepower? Seems like if used correctly could be a good use of tonnage.

Also for quickplay, 6 cMPL, ECM, 16 DHS That's 48 damage...

#62 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:41 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 17 March 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:


So it will be a light mech in the middle of the pack with 50-tonner firepower? Seems like if used correctly could be a good use of tonnage.

Also for quickplay, 6 cMPL, ECM, 16 DHS That's 48 damage...

Except my Adder can do the 4xSRM6 role..and be more useful? As for the 6xMPL.... my NOVA still cooks doing that. So I hope you don't have to count on more that one shot.

Too each their own. Not saying one shouldn't use it. Just saying don't expect it to actually be GOOD at anything you do use it for.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 17 March 2017 - 08:42 AM.


#63 Metus regem

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:42 AM

All I have to say Bandito, is when people get their Annihilators, Uziels and Cougars, then start to whine that they are not living up to expectations, I will be there to say "You were warned. Those of us that knew better tried to warn you...."


That being said, yes I have been know to ask for bad mechs, but I go in to it knowing full well, that they well be less than ideal....

#64 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:46 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 17 March 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

Except my Adder can do the 4xSRM6 role..and be more useful? As for the 6xMPL.... my NOVA still cooks doing that. So I hope you don't have to count on more that one shot.

Too each their own. Not saying one shouldn't use it. Just saying don't expect it to actually be GOOD at anything you do use it for.


Should be able to alpha twice according to smurfy... that's 96 damage at ~350 meters.

The other unknown is ATMs.. This mech has enough tonnage to bring 4 ATM 6s which the Adder does not have.

Honestly I hated on this mech at first as well, but I think it will still be able to do some interesting things.


And you say all I care about is OP meta Posted Image

#65 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:49 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 17 March 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:


Should be able to alpha twice according to smurfy... that's 96 damage at ~350 meters.

The other unknown is ATMs.. This mech has enough tonnage to bring 4 ATM 6s which the Adder does not have.

Honestly I hated on this mech at first as well, but I think it will still be able to do some interesting things.


And you say all I care about is OP meta Posted Image

I think you just secretly think you will be able to meta with the Cougar. ;)

#66 MechaBattler

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:54 AM

Uziel needing LFE is like most of my mechs since they run standard engines. All the more reason for engine decoupling. :3

#67 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:54 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 17 March 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

I think you just secretly think you will be able to meta with the Cougar. Posted Image


I will not be surprised at all if they make an appearance in competitive leagues.

#68 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:57 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 17 March 2017 - 08:54 AM, said:


I will not be surprised at all if they make an appearance in competitive leagues.

HAH! I knew it! Tryhard poking it's head out! :P

#69 Nightshade24

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:23 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 14 March 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

Uziel = MW4 50 tonner. Huge side torsi so XL is very risky--gotta run LFE. It's cockpit is very low, which means the enemy can shoot at you even before you can see him. Quirk crutches. Can run real fast though, thanks to 390 max engine, but very little firepower in exchange, especially when running LFE.

Annihilator = MW3 100 tonner. CT can be shot from anywhere thanks to that long neck, and has max engine rating of only 300. Mobility is going to be Dire Whale rate, thus its application limited in scope. Gonna need quirks.

Compared to that:

Cougar = MW4 35 tonner . An omnimech so ALL of its variants can benefit from the head ECM of COU-H, with ample hardpoints. Has plenty of energy and missile hardpoints suited for a Light mech. Probably gonna eclipse the Adder, and Kit Fox as support/escort Light mech. Minimal quirks needed.

Mad Cat MK II = MW4 90 tonner. A battlemech that is suited for boating big weapons, due to its limited hardpoints, but has all the advantages a Clan battlemech enjoys, such as engine swapping. Max 400 engine rating so it can easily keep up with the pack. No need for quirks. I mean, have you seen how high the arms are placed in the art?
All of its weapons are near cockpit level. Gonna do PPFLD even better than the MAD-IIC, or even the KDK-3.


PGI, those new IS techs better be good!

View PostEl Bandito, on 14 March 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:


The difference lies in the fact that new IS mechs are doing nothing to help IS lineups, while new Clan Assault is gonna further push the power difference between IS and Clan. The gap is widening, and if the new IS techs can't help to bridge that...


Well my comments per Mech'...

Uziel = With the advent of Light Fusion Engines, the ST's may not be a problem at all. However same as I think for all IS Mechs', The XL engine alone increases a survivability of a mech with speed. Speed to get into or out of a position that may benefit you. I ran XL's on some big ST Mech's for years now and so far there was never a momment I feel that an XL in something someone may think would be suicide was a bad idea for the advantages of such an engine in my mind balances out the problems. Most often then not due to armour rolling if a ST is about to go then so is the other or my CT, and If the other goes there isn't much I can do with my potential "CT weapon of doom" and if it's my CT then well alright, it would've taken 1-2 more shots to end me anyway.
Also keep in mind... the Stormcrows cockpit is low... for an Ebon Jaguar with additional ST weapons it's cockpit is low, The Direwolfs is low... no one complains that any of these 3 Mechs' are underpowered. In fact for the most part I hear and still do that the Stormcrow is quite powerful.
I feel that this can be a great platform for ranged combat due to all it's weapons being equal to above the cockpit, Making PPC's, ER lasers, AC's, etc viable for this vehicle. It'll appeal to those who preffer speed and mobility with jumpets then those who just want to simply put it: slug it out. This is this things niche and advantage over the other IS 50 tonners and mechs of the medium weight class and it's better then getting a near carbon copy of any other 'Mech.

Annihilator = A Mech that can rival if not surpass the Kodiaks firepower in sheer ballistics and it gets shunned? For an IS assault it brings a lot to the table in sheer ballistics, This is also the only 100 tonner that can fit a pair of Heavy Gauass Rifles that will be added thus far (since they can only fit in side torsos... Atlas can only do 1, King Crab can't do it on any but the Hero, etc...). It won't surprise me if it'll end up getting Kodiak syndrome due to the sheer ballistics and get virtually no quirks. We all know the non-3 Kodiaks desperately need quirks especially the KDK-5 but the KDK-3 ruins it for everyone it seems.

Cougar = Surprising you bring up the slowest 35 tonner in game and call it good. It can't surpass the Kitfox in AMS/ LAMS support, and it is slower then both Kitfox and Adder. The Cougar suffers all the problems the adder faces but magnified. Likewise: the advantage of firepower is magnitude too. It will be amazing in sheer firepower and probably serves best as an LRM boat... Also it rather will have very large ST's you can hit anywhere or it'll have a huge CT (which even then: you can hit from the sides easily... unless that's also ST, then the ST is the size of buckingham palace and LRM's / LBX/ MRMs / ATMs/ SRM's / RL/ Streaks (man that list got big fast) will just shred you to pieces.

Mad Cat Mk II = I can't say much about this, it's a Timberwolf, with Jumpjets that's not hardwired but it's there if you need it, and is a battlemech that you can change an engine from a uber fast 400 to a slow paced turtle, Higher arms... it fills the much needed role of a "This can do or be anything you want". It's a general purpose mech which the clanas lacked a lot for the assault weight class as everything there is Specialist (Direwolf, warhawk, executioner, kodiak, highlander iic, supernova etc). No ECM, no more then 1 AMS, pretty good all rounder...


TBH, with the new IS tech coming in, I feel the Anniihilator is the best mech in this list.... and while both IS Mechs are unique and play a role in MW: O to help the IS, the Clanners only get one that does something on those lines and the Cougar just pushes for an extreme Adder which no one* likes the Adder over the arctic cheetah because adder had superior firepower but lower speed... Many would argue a mech like the Locust IIC would've helped better.



TBH, with all the tech and mechs, I thought the iS got the hand holding this packs, but I can't complain... the Cougar was needed reguardless due to the lack of Clan lights in game thus I am not upset the IS got a medium and clans didn't.

#70 Metus regem

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:33 AM

View PostNightshade24, on 17 March 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

Annihilator = A Mech that can rival if not surpass the Kodiaks firepower in sheer ballistics and it gets shunned?

-stuff not related to what I am responding too-

TBH, with the new IS tech coming in, I feel the Annihilator is the best mech in this list.... a



In the case of the Annihilator, it's not going to be in a good place, and that's due to the height difference between the cockpit placement and the hard point placements. This mech will have the opposite of the Archer and Uziel problem of too much mech exposure to return fire... the Annihilator will see things long before it can shoot things.

Part of the magic that makes the Kodiak 3 so powerful is the combination of a high engine cap, Clan spec equipment and having the hard points clustered around a high mounted cockpit, all things that the Annihilator will be lacking in.

#71 Nightshade24

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:36 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 17 March 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:



In the case of the Annihilator, it's not going to be in a good place, and that's due to the height difference between the cockpit placement and the hard point placements. This mech will have the opposite of the Archer and Uziel problem of too much mech exposure to return fire... the Annihilator will see things long before it can shoot things.

Part of the magic that makes the Kodiak 3 so powerful is the combination of a high engine cap, Clan spec equipment and having the hard points clustered around a high mounted cockpit, all things that the Annihilator will be lacking in.


Most of the drawbacks here though can be deviated on some maps completely... maps like HPG manifold which is heavily easy to control and can force a brawl would dbe great as it would be an expose all or nothing situation where the opponent can only expose as much as you. On far more open maps or maps with harsh terrain cover becomes important for sure and this would be an annihilators downfall... however the Direwolf in comparison still isn't doing to hot compared to it despite not having a crows nest of a cockpit the Direwolf still has to expose a lot to get her guns in...

#72 rook

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:39 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 17 March 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:



In the case of the Annihilator, it's not going to be in a good place, and that's due to the height difference between the cockpit placement and the hard point placements. This mech will have the opposite of the Archer and Uziel problem of too much mech exposure to return fire... the Annihilator will see things long before it can shoot things.

Part of the magic that makes the Kodiak 3 so powerful is the combination of a high engine cap, Clan spec equipment and having the hard points clustered around a high mounted cockpit, all things that the Annihilator will be lacking in.



Don't forget the Annihilator super slow with a 300 max engine!

#73 Metus regem

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:44 AM

View PostNightshade24, on 17 March 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

Most of the drawbacks here though can be deviated on some maps completely... maps like HPG manifold which is heavily easy to control and can force a brawl would dbe great as it would be an expose all or nothing situation where the opponent can only expose as much as you. On far more open maps or maps with harsh terrain cover becomes important for sure and this would be an annihilators downfall... however the Direwolf in comparison still isn't doing to hot compared to it despite not having a crows nest of a cockpit the Direwolf still has to expose a lot to get her guns in...



True, it's why I spelt out what makes the Kodiak 3 such a power house:

View PostMetus regem, on 17 March 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

Part of the magic that makes the Kodiak 3 so powerful is the combination of a high engine cap, Clan spec equipment and having the hard points clustered around a high mounted cockpit, all things that the Annihilator will be lacking in.



By contrast the Dire Wolf lacks the high mounted cockpit and the high engine cap. Currently the amount of agility your mech has is directly related to the size of the power plant (engine) that is in it, thus a 300 series will be inferior every possible way to a 395 mounted in a GR+PPC Kodiak 3.

View Postrook, on 17 March 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:



Don't forget the Annihilator super slow with a 300 max engine!



Covered by the part where I said:

View PostMetus regem, on 17 March 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:


Part of the magic that makes the Kodiak 3 so powerful is the combination of a high engine cap, Clan spec equipment and having the hard points clustered around a high mounted cockpit, all things that the Annihilator will be lacking in.


#74 El Bandito

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:05 PM

View PostNightshade24, on 17 March 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

TBH, with the new IS tech coming in, I feel the Anniihilator is the best mech in this list.... and while both IS Mechs are unique and play a role in MW: O to help the IS, the Clanners only get one that does something on those lines and the Cougar just pushes for an extreme Adder which no one* likes the Adder over the arctic cheetah because adder had superior firepower but lower speed...


Posted Image


I'll bet a mech pack against you that MCII will be far more competitive than the Anni, but I doubt you will take it.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 March 2017 - 04:20 PM.


#75 El Bandito

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:19 PM

View PostWildstreak, on 17 March 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

Was not referring to the tech.

Think about the Mechs this way, I have not done the details yet but this did stand out to me.

If you go Ultimate on all 4, that is $260 total. Same with Collector's if you get everything including Heroes and Reinforcements.
Even Standard is $185 including Heroes and Reinforcements.
What is the closest previous packs to that?
Clan Wave 1, highest was $210 not counting the Gold Mechs.
Now compare.
Yeah there is the advantage of cheaper options and you can buy the bigger Mechs alone for less without getting lighter ones.

That is what stood out to me.


I see what you mean. However, the highest Invasion pack costs $240, not $210.

Both Civil War Ultimate pack and biggest Invasion pack contain 24 mechs, of which 8 mechs have C-Bill boost. Yet Civil War pack costs 260 USD while Invasion costs 240 USD--this is despite the fact that Clan mechs already come with XL engine and DHS upgrades, while three of the Annihilators have STd 200 engine and SHS.

Gonna tweet Russ about it.

#76 Antares102

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:19 PM

View PostNightshade24, on 17 March 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

TBH, with the new IS tech coming in, I feel the Anniihilator is the best mech in this list....

Posted Image

#77 Snazzy Dragon

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:37 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 14 March 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:


Heavy PPC has crap range. I really hope the LFE would be the miracle cure, cause skill tree sure aint.


You don't need to poptart at 700 meters. You're losing a lot of accuracy and giving your position away more than anything at that range. The poptarting sweet spot is 400-500m; far enough to evade enemies trying to close in and spread damage more easily, close enough to nail the PPCs where you want them. Perfect for the HPPC

#78 TheArisen

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 11:09 PM

View PostSnazzy Dragon, on 17 March 2017 - 06:37 PM, said:


You don't need to poptart at 700 meters. You're losing a lot of accuracy and giving your position away more than anything at that range. The poptarting sweet spot is 400-500m; far enough to evade enemies trying to close in and spread damage more easily, close enough to nail the PPCs where you want them. Perfect for the HPPC


Plus with a range module it'll probably have an effective range of 600 +-

#79 Y E O N N E

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 11:13 PM

View PostTheArisen, on 17 March 2017 - 11:09 PM, said:


Plus with a range module it'll probably have an effective range of 600 +-


If we still have modules at that point.

Still even at stock range, it's not like you've lost a lot of damage by 600 meters and even 700 is going to remain better than a pair of ERPPC.

#80 TheArisen

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 12:07 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 17 March 2017 - 11:13 PM, said:


If we still have modules at that point.

Still even at stock range, it's not like you've lost a lot of damage by 600 meters and even 700 is going to remain better than a pair of ERPPC.


Right, I was just pointing out it will have a longer range in game because even with the new skilltree you could buff it's range.





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