2372 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Alan Davion, on 16 March 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

And how many IS Mechs, especially Omnimechs, are truly XL safe?

I'm gonna say not all that many. As in less than what a person could count on their fingers and toes.

A lot of it depends on what they do with the Geometry. Some subtle differences can make all the difference.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alan Davion, on 16 March 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

And how many IS Mechs, especially Omnimechs, are truly XL safe?

I'm gonna say not all that many. As in less than what a person could count on their fingers and toes.

And that changes it's desirability? I'm thinking no? OK then.

Gas Guzzler, on 16 March 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

A lot of it depends on what they do with the Geometry. Some subtle differences can make all the difference.

Smallish Torsos and Monkey arms still works wonders, when available.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

Well, it is a slow mech. I mean I got them to raise the Bounty Hunter, with it's same ground speed, to a 300, on a 75 ton mech, which is the same as a 260 on a 65 ton mech. Some mechs just aren't "Ideal", but I'm not sure how much special snowflake treatment we can dole out before it becomes as busted as IS Quirks.

For an energy boat, ideally, probably a 300 would be ideal. Because it's so slow to begin with, I could see them stretching to a 275 maybe... but really... not convinced there is a legit argument to take it beyond, sorry.


Is it being that slow that is really the problem, on an intended "sniper" role mech...or is it having that few internal DHS that is the real issue?


Yeah because 25% weight savings is the same as 50%......

XL Safe is still a good thing, when it can be had.

It really isn't since it's intended role was supposed to be a second line support AA mech. However with that being said, I'll vote 300 being the engine cap limit for the Rifleman IIC. It's going to have to compete with the big boys like the Night Gyr and the (eventual but hopefully later) Nova Cat. I think alot of people miss the fact that PGI actually wants more people to run clan standard engines for their mechs.

[Metus regem]

Alan Davion, on 16 March 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

And how many IS Mechs, especially Omnimechs, are truly XL safe?

I'm gonna say not all that many. As in less than what a person could count on their fingers and toes.

Templar comes to mind first and foremost... she'd have Battlemaster like shield arms.... if not better shield arms, due to the pauldrons she's got in the TRO art.

[Bishop Steiner]

Arnold The Governator, on 16 March 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

It really isn't since it's intended role was supposed to be a second line support AA mech. However with that being said, I'll vote 300 being the engine cap limit for the Rifleman IIC. It's going to have to compete with the big boys like the Night Gyr and the (eventual but hopefully later) Nova Cat. I think alot of people miss the fact that PGI actually wants more people to run clan standard engines for their mechs.

*looks around for aerospace fighters*

Huh, well, since it's hard to be anti something that doesn't exist (although some folks sure are good at making up stuff to get pissed at PGI about...but that's a whole different topic... ), I think it's safe to say, high mounts and long range guns in virtually all stock builds translates to LR Direct Fire Support/Sniper, in MWO.

Just gonna put that out there.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

*looks around for aerospace fighters*

Huh, well, since it's hard to be anti something that doesn't exist (although some folks sure are good at making up stuff to get pissed at PGI about...but that's a whole different topic... ), I think it's safe to say, high mounts and long range guns in virtually all stock builds translates to LR Direct Fire Support/Sniper, in MWO.

Just gonna put that out there.

Yeah I think you are right. As previously stated before I still don't see the slowness of the stock mech being an issue. While it can brawl decently if someone wants to run a custom RFL-IIC 2, I think alot of people are forgetting here that the Jump Jets on the original version were there to help it with mobility. Now if we have Jump Jets that could make the mech strafe left, right, fowards and backwards, then I would say the RFL-IIC Prime would be a pretty forma-table 65 tonner in MWO. It's still going to be a solid addition to the clan arsenal regardless with what PGI decides to do with it.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Smallish Torsos and Monkey arms still works wonders, when available.

Yeah, I mean if you look at the Sunder, some art makes it seem SUPER fat, but if its not so fat, the general shape and slightly protruding CT would mean that you could conceal a weak side torso if necessary, it just depends on how fat they choose to make it.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 16 March 2017 - 01:44 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Arnold The Governator, on 16 March 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Yeah I think you are right. As previously stated before I still don't see the slowness of the stock mech being an issue. While it can brawl decently if someone wants to run a custom RFL-IIC 2, I think alot of people are forgetting here that the Jump Jets on the original version were there to help it with mobility. Now if we have Jump Jets that could make the mech strafe left, right, fowards and backwards, then I would say the RFL-IIC Prime would be a pretty forma-table 65 tonner in MWO. It's still going to be a solid addition to the clan arsenal regardless with what PGI decides to do with it.

Yeah. I think where the RFL-IIC fails, is when one tries to squeeze it into the more traditional laservomit box, with lots of lasers, most with shorter ranges. But as a potential answer for Inner Sphere Grasshoppers (once Skill Tree happens and current iteration offensives quirks go buh bye), I think it has potential. Will it be a tier 0 uber mech? Prolly not. But as long as it doesn't have total crap mobility, and decent hitboxes, that many high hardpoints, plus JJs, will always be decent.

One can make it with near max Ferro, Endo, 260xl, 4 JJs (or less if desired) and 4x C-LPL, with 20 DHS. Is it perfect? No. Is it going to be viable? I don't see why not. Is it going to replace Hellby or Timby LaserVomits? Nope. But it should be a better poker, and call me crazy, but I prefer the high arm mounts to high torso, especially with JJs, as the ability to elevate and depress fire is prety handy, situationally.

I would probably actually do better in a RFL-IIC than in a Night Gyr, in semi similar roles, personally, because I'm not as good at reactionary fire with torso mounts as I am with arm mounts. Not saying it'll be "better" than the Night Gyr, but it will probably, work better for me (because I'm a pretty mediocre Night Gyr pilot)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

Is it being that slow that is really the problem, on an intended "sniper" role mech...or is it having that few internal DHS that is the real issue?

Few internal DHS is somewhat of a problem, but it is definitely the speed since slow mechs tend to need sustainability a lot more (see Night Gyr) and for an all energy boat. There is also diminishing returns to how much you can stack up (either weapons or DHS) before you get essentially capped on DPS, tonnage, and/or free space. This is basically why energy boat assaults (on the Clan side) tend to have a lot harder time being relevant (IS assaults can abuse LPLs better typically).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 March 2017 - 01:51 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 March 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

Few internal DHS is somewhat of a problem, but it is definitely the speed since slow mechs tend to need sustainability a lot more (see Night Gyr) and for an all energy boat. There is also diminishing returns to how much you can stack up (either weapons or DHS) before you get essentially capped on DPS, tonnage, and/or free space. This is basically why energy boat assaults (on the Clan side) tend to have a lot harder time being relevant (IS assaults can abuse LPLs better typically).

Again, speed is not an issue if you treat it like a fire support mech. Help the other slower mechs on your team and don't out run there like like a roid raging Rambo. The Rifleman IIC Prime has 5 high mounted energy hard points to play with in contrast to the Night Gyr's 3 and lower 2 (im not going to include the gorilla arms of the Night Gyr). If you wanted to ditch the LPL's for cERLL and throw in a t-comp on there, you will have a long range energy boat that can efficiently hill peak. Or swap out those cLPL's and throw in 3 cERPPC's. This is interesting because now we will be getting cHLL's on top of that.

With that being said, with PGI's new update to the weapons in game the Rifleman IIC will still have access to it's original canon 4 variations and plus whatever hero we get for it.

RFL-IIC 1 -> 4cLPL's + 1 cERSML or 5 energy hardpoints + JJ's + BAP

RFL-IIC 2 -> 4cUAC2 or 4 ballistic hardpoints

RFL-IIC 3 -> 2cHLL's + 2cUAC2's or 2 energy + 2 Ballistics + BAP

RFL-IIC 4-> 2cLPL's + 2cATM9's or 2 energy + 2 Missiles

+ Whatever hero loadout we get for the mech (Maybe a custom one with a higher engine cap limit?). Correct me if I'm wrong if the head energy hardpoint is still existent on the other loadouts or if I'm missing something here.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 16 March 2017 - 02:15 PM.

[Armorine]

*Looks through list*....

ummm you missed the penetrator!!!

[Jackal Noble]

AAAAARRRRRCCCCCAAAASSSS

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Arnold The Governator, on 16 March 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Again, speed is not an issue if you treat it like a fire support mech.

You can hand wave it all you want, but speed is important for all mechs.

Arnold The Governator, on 16 March 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

The Rifleman IIC Prime has 5 high mounted energy hard points to play with in contrast to the Night Gyr's 3 and lower 2 (im not going to include the gorilla arms of the Night Gyr).

High mounts can't save you from being isolated because you move as slow as a Whale.....

With that being said, with PGI's new update to the weapons in game the Rifleman IIC will still have access to it's original canon 4 variations and plus whatever hero we get for it.

Arnold The Governator, on 16 March 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

RFL-IIC 2 -> 4cUAC2 or 4 ballistic hardpoints

RFL-IIC 3 -> 2cHLL's + 2cUAC2's or 2 energy + 2 Ballistics + BAP

These will be the clear winners provided the IIC 3 is a 4/6 and not a 3/5.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 March 2017 - 03:03 PM.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

I am sad not to see the Champion (which has several variants in the 3060's) in the IS Heavy options. Hell it has 5 cannon builds that should be easy to throw into MWO, improved narc and C3i being the hardest (narc and targeting computer I guess). Hero could be modified to work with IS only tech and give us a jumping Champion out of the Champion C. Would be hot as hell, but, doable.

Champion C with IS only Tech:
XL300
2xERML (RA, LA)
2xMPL (LT)
1xSRM6 (LT)
1xLB10X (RT) w/1 ton of Cluster (RT)
2xSPL (HD, CT)
5xJJ (2xRL, 2xLL, 1xCT)
12 DHS
Endo
Light Ferro
201 armor (double for MWO would be 402, 4 points of armor left over, so not full tonnage used).

There ready made 6 variants of the Champion 2N including a hero that would be pretty unique, I also likely would drop cash for the ultimate edition of it due to oh yes please. Last mech that there is no certainty will hit MWO that I really want in MWO.

[FupDup]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 March 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

These will be the clear winners provided the IIC 3 is a 4/6 and not a 3/5.

The IIC 3 is 3/5, according to the BT Engineer encyclopedia page's record sheet.

http://bte.battletec...te/pdf/2712.pdf

[Y E O N N E]

Alan Davion, on 16 March 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

And how many IS Mechs, especially Omnimechs, are truly XL safe?

I'm gonna say not all that many. As in less than what a person could count on their fingers and toes.

Raptor will be great, because it is a box and it is a smol.

[Alan Davion]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 March 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

Raptor will be great, because it is a box and it is a smol.

Right, that's one. Any others?

Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, can anyone tell me, in simple language, how to stop getting logged out of the site every few hours?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 16 March 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

The IIC 3 is 3/5, according to the BT Engineer encyclopedia page's record sheet.

http://bte.battletec...te/pdf/2712.pdf

Then it might as well be worthless. 2 Gauss/2 ERPPC will be its best bet but it will probably be worse than the Night Gyr version.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 March 2017 - 04:57 PM.

[chucklesMuch]

Kanil, on 16 March 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

Well, the Black Lanner and Rifleman IIC are doing pretty good in the poll too,.. so I'm not sure it's strictly an Inner Sphere problem.

True! But the clans have already have a decent stable to choose from... the is could really use a few more meta amongst the nostalgia

[Pariah Devalis]

chucklesMuch, on 16 March 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

True! But the clans have already have a decent stable to choose from... the is could really use a few more meta amongst the nostalgia

The Clans need, in particular, any 20 ton option, a second 25 ton option would not hurt (Fire Falcon?), a second 40 ton option, a second 60 ton option, a good second 55 ton option, and a second 70 ton option. We have more than enough 65 ton mechs, enough variety in the 75 ton mechs, the 30 and 35 ton points will have enough immediate options come the Cougar (though they are not ideal lights), we have enough 45 ton options, and we have ample 50 ton options.