409 replies to this topic

[James Wirth]

Quote

You are attempting to dismiss arguments of others based on insults, when you have insulted others in your own posts.

Just because YOU say so, does NOT make it so.

I advise you to improve your reading comprehension.

[James Wirth]

chaothulhu, on 23 March 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

unless you are looking to play Clan Warrior Online, some compromises must be made in the name of balance

There should be NO balance between Clan and Inner Sphere technology, period. Clan technology was overwhelmingly superior to anything the IS had during Operation Revival, and was the primary reason that the Clans swept all before them until the battles of Luthien and Tukayyid, when numbers and superior tactics finally ground the invasion to a halt.

Edited by James Wirth, 24 March 2017 - 03:27 AM.

[James Wirth]

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Oh gee, I'm just so sorry big words intimidate you, but it doesn't change the fact you are making fallacious arguments.

No insult there.

Quote

And I can safely assume nobody holds that position, because nobody has stated it. You just made it up.

You know what they say about assuming things. And yes, IS players have in fact demanded that very thing on various threads (going back to 2014 when the first Clan invasion package was released) discussing 'balance.' You can deny it all you want, but it is truth.

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...and balance is far more important than strict lore interpretation.

No, it is not.

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As I've previously said, I'm a long-time Battletech fan and a total lorenerd, and I have no problem accepting this fact.

I have trouble believing that.

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Every other Battletech game has made significant changes from lore and TT rules, so why is it such a big deal that MWO does the same?

Because none of the other BT/MWO games have diminished Clan technology to the point where it is on equal par with Inner Sphere technology. And other games have NOT sold Clan mechs and mech packages to players for real money, and then drastically reduced the value of those purchases through constant nerfing. Again, I present to you as Exhibit A, the $25 Ultraviolet Dire Wolf, which was delivered in October, but then massively nerfed in December, again in February, and then yet again this past Tuesday. It once had some incredible UAC quirks which were a key selling point, but have now all been wiped away in just six short months.

So yeah, MWO's treatment of the IP and its customers have been far different than in previous BT/MW games by other companies.

Edited by James Wirth, 24 March 2017 - 03:31 AM.

[Zergling]

James Wirth, on 24 March 2017 - 03:17 AM, said:

I have trouble believing that.

I got into Battletech around the early 1990s, before Mechwarrior 2 was released. Since then, I've spent thousands of dollars on TT books and miniatures.


The books in my collection, in order of original publication date (apart from a few of the older books, they were all purchased new):

Technical Readout: 3025 (original Unseen edition)
The Star League
Technical Readout: 2750
Technical Readout: 3050 (original Unseen edition)
Mechwarrior: The Battletech Roleplaying Game, Second Edition
Jade Falcon Sourcebook
Technical Readout: 3055
Technical Readout: 3055 (slightly later edition, with some errors corrected)
Day of Heroes
Battlespace box set
Invading Clans sourcebook
Battletech Compendium: The Rules of Warfare
Technical Readout: 3057
Mechwarrior Companion
Technical Readout: 3058
The Fall of Terra
Record Sheets: 3025 & 3026
Record Sheets: 3050
First Strike
Technical Readout: 3050 (revised edition, unseen removed)
Maximum Tech
Northwind Highlanders
Technical Readout: 3060
Operation: Stiletto
Operation: Flashpoint
Battletech Master Rules, Revised
Technical Readout: 3067
Field Manual, Mercenaries, Revised
Combat Operations
Classic Battletech Miniatures Rules
Field Manual: Periphery
Record Sheets: Dark Age I
Technical Readout: Project Phoenix
Technical Readout: 3026, Revised Edition
Handbook: House Steiner
Classic Battletech Map Pack: Solaris VII
Technical Readout: 3057, Revised
Aerotech 2, Revised
Historical: War of 3039
Mercenaries Supplemental
Interstellar Players
Technical Readout: 3055 Upgrade
Combat Equipment
Handbook: House Marik
Dawn of the Jihad
Mercenaries Supplemental II
Jihad Hot Spots: 3070
Technical Readout: 3058 Upgrade
Technical Readout: Vehicle Annex
Total Warfare
Historical: Brush Wars
Handbook: House Davion
Classic Battletech RPG
TechManual
Starterbook: Sword and Dragon
Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade
Jihad Hot Spots: 3072
Tactical Operations
Strategic Operations
Starterbook: Wolf and Blake
Technical Readout: 3075
Jihad Conspiracies: Interstellar Players 2
Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents
Handbook: Major Periphery States
Jihad Hot Spots: 3076
Battletech: 25 Years of Art and Fiction
Masters and Minions: The Starcorps Dossiers
Technical Readout: 3085
Historical: Operation Klondike
Jihad Hot Spots: Terra
Era Report: 3052
Handbook: House Liao
Era Report: 3062
Historical: Reunification War
Technical Readout: Prototypes
Wars of Reaving
Jihad: Final Reckoning
Field Manual: 3085
Historical: Liberation of Terra Volume 1
Era Report: 2750
Total Chaos
Field Manual: SLDF
Interstellar Players 3: Interstellar Expeditions
Historical: Liberation of Terra Volume 2
Era Report: 3145
Battletech: Alpha Strike
Technical Readout: 3145
Field Manuel: 3145

Sadly, the releases in 2014 and 2015 were rather lacking, and my local supplier stopped getting new Battletech stock in, so I'm having some difficulty trying to buy the newer books that I do want.
I still want to buy Technical Readout: 3150, Interstellar Operations and other new books, if I can find copies locally.

And I'm probably forgetting a few books, plus stuff like map packs (included Solaris VII above because it has a decent sized rulebook in addition to the maps), miniatures and a couple novels.


I also spend hundreds of dollars on the Mechwarrior: Dark Age/Age of Destruction collectable miniatures game spinoff, ended up with hundreds of mech and vehicle miniatures from that.
Despite that game not being terribly popular in the Battletech fandom, I kinda liked it; most of the miniatures were fairly high quality with great paintjobs.

And I'm probably forgetting a few books, plus stuff like map packs (included Solaris VII above because it has a decent sized rulebook in addition to the maps), miniatures and a couple novels.

[Odanan]

Sucy Manbavaran, on 21 March 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

got 2 questions :
- Why clan balistic > the normal one can't be Up with one SINGLE thing ... Burst Projectile like IS Version ?? Seriously i'm pretty sure every clanner use more CSSRM2 than CAC2/5/10(not sure about this one)/20 ......
- If the ClanTech is soso OP ... Why not give everytech for everyone ? i'm not a lorefan but PGI seem to hardly f**k the lore since the clan release why not PTS this and see some stats ?

I agree Clan ACs needed to be like IS ACs (single round) - that would certainly make me use Clan ACs. And to be fair, IS UACs should be burst fire like the Clan ones (especially those incoming IS UAC/10 and UAC/20).

The biggest problem is not the Clan weapons (which are lighter, smaller, do more damage and have much better range) - this is compensated with longer burn times and - especially - a lot of heat. The problem is the Clan equipment: FF (half the size, greater bonus), ES (half the size), omni tech (which yes, in this game has it's own disadvantages) and last but not least, Clan XL Engines.

Clan XL Engines have a huge difference over those poor IS XL Engines, to the point any Clan mech uses XL, while larger IS mechs need to content with Std. Engine (losing a lot of tons with that - tons that could be otherwise going to speed and/or firepower).

It's a great endeavor to try to balance IS and Clan mechs. Since I enjoy playing with both, I think PGI did a good job so far.

PS: personally, I think PGI should have balanced Clan vs IS by numbers (asymmetrical warfare) from the beginning, not 1 vs. 1.

[Edward Hazen]

Ok, serious non-emotional feedback here:


I did play a number of games last night and most of them went pretty well and none of my mech's components we're crit while I still had armor over the location that they are mounted in. I will just assume that my components getting crit through full armor the other day, was just an anomaly, possibly caused by internet "weather".

[Alienized]

can you please do a patch that fixes the abysmal behaviour of the playerbase in the battles.

you definetly need to add waypoints to keep the team intact and not half of them beeing headless chicken runnign around completely clueless (and im talkin players that actually have hundreds of battles behind them. they shouldnt act like the bots they pretend to be.)

it shouldnt be possible to get farther away than 700m from all mechs combined except for lights.

it shouldnt be possible to run solo into the known major enemy force.



you can add and fix and balance all you want.
the players play this game so bad that its all quite pointless.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Zergling: For your own sanity and well-being, give it up. It's quite obvious neither Hanzen or Wirth have any understanding of game design, development or balance.

They think that game mechanics and various aspects of balancing that work well in a turn-based environment would work in a real-time environment. They assume that 'balance' means 'make everything the same', when numerous RTS and FPS games show that this is not the case. They think that lore should dictate how a game works (both as a turn-based thing or a real-time thing), and any deviation is tantamount to heresy at best.

You cannot negotiate with this sort of person. The only thing you can do is tell them to take it or leave it. They will either suck it up and continue to play a game based on a franchise they continue to state that they love and care for, or they will continue to throw temper tantrums as a means of venting their impotent rage.

[Edward Hazen]

AnimeFreak40K, on 24 March 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

Zergling: For your own sanity and well-being, give it up. It's quite obvious neither Hanzen or Wirth have any understanding of game design, development or balance.

They think that game mechanics and various aspects of balancing that work well in a turn-based environment would work in a real-time environment. They assume that 'balance' means 'make everything the same', when numerous RTS and FPS games show that this is not the case. They think that lore should dictate how a game works (both as a turn-based thing or a real-time thing), and any deviation is tantamount to heresy at best.

You cannot negotiate with this sort of person. The only thing you can do is tell them to take it or leave it. They will either suck it up and continue to play a game based on a franchise they continue to state that they love and care for, or they will continue to throw temper tantrums as a means of venting their impotent rage.

You believe you are on a moral high ground because you assume what other people are assuming?

[Kaldrenborn]

Odanan, on 24 March 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

I agree Clan ACs needed to be like IS ACs (single round) - that would certainly make me use Clan ACs. And to be fair, IS UACs should be burst fire like the Clan ones (especially those incoming IS UAC/10 and UAC/20).

^This for sure.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Edward Hazen, on 24 March 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

You believe you are on a moral high ground because you assume what other people are assuming?

No.
I am making a statement based on observation.

[Edward Hazen]

AnimeFreak40K, on 24 March 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

No.
I am making a statement based on observation.

Which is what I do.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Edward Hazen, on 24 March 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

Which is what I do.

This is the part where I would go into some sort of lengthy statement indicating that your behavior indicates otherwise (that is, making baseless assumptions) and that many of your arguments and/or rebuttals consist of little more than strawmen and/or personal attacks. I would also be so inclined to pull your own words from this very thread to further bolster my point, but I know that to do so would accomplish nothing and result in more strawman arguments, personal attacks and, possibly, the occasional appeal to authority, so I won't bother.

Instead, I am just going to cease communication with you.

[Zergling]

AnimeFreak40K, on 24 March 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

Instead, I am just going to cease communication with you.

Yeah, I put them both on block.

EDIT: lol, one of them posted in response. Talk about a desperate need for the last word.

Edited by Zergling, 24 March 2017 - 06:02 PM.

[Edward Hazen]

This has become as bad as arguing religion with "true believers", whenever you say something they don't like, they plug their ears.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Zergling, on 24 March 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

EDIT: lol, one of them posted in response. Talk about a desperate need for the last word.

Heh... I know, right?

[James Wirth]

Zergling, on 24 March 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

Yeah, I put them both on block.

EDIT: lol, one of them posted in response. Talk about a desperate need for the last word.

Seyla.

[Zergling]

Schrollski, on 24 March 2017 - 10:52 PM, said:

Because the entire playerbase agrees with you

The entire playerbase that understands the game agrees with me. The only people that don't agree, are those that don't understand the game.

Hell, the high skill players don't assign any value to 'standard engine zombie mechs' at all; almost all IS builds run with XL engines, even heavies and assaults, because that is the only way they retain some degree of niche usefulness against Clan mechs.

With either standard or XL, the common opinion is that IS mechs are worse than Clan. They have some that can compete, but they are still worse.

Edited by Zergling, 25 March 2017 - 12:44 AM.

[James Wirth]

Zergling, on 25 March 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

The entire playerbase that understands the game agrees with me.

Well, that's a mighty claim.

[Dee Eight]

The only time any battlemech really becomes zombie build useful is if it has CT or Head hardpoints so that it can keep firing back at the enemy. Spider's for example... you can put the jump jets in the feet and a couple lasers in the CT... lose both shoulders/arms and you can still jump, run around at top speed and shoot things.