73 replies to this topic

[Battlemaster56]

Snazzy Dragon, on 18 March 2017 - 06:30 AM, said:

He's implying that because there won't be HAGs, IS will be too overpowered because clans won't have a "counter" to RACs.

Which I find hilarious, being a clan mech is a counter to begin with

I really don't really see any need of concern about RAC's since the ones that gonna use the living crap out of them gonna be the Mauler, King Crab, and the Annihilator once it comes out. I have ore concern of heavy lasers mostly medium class that gonna be broken 10 damage for the cost of extra heat and range of a std medium laser, this gonna be the next best brawling weapon in the game.

[StealthdragonB]

Well in theory if PGI still goes with that rule that time advances at the same rate here as it does in the game, you might see them next year?

[FLG 01]

Snazzy Dragon, on 18 March 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

Typical brroleg post whining about how the game is too unbalanced towards IS and that it'll only get worse with skill tree and new tech, when in fact, it is very much the opposite

0/10 thread /end thread

Unfortunately, brroleg lost a lot of the humour (unintentional or otherwise) that characterized his posts on the Eugen Wargame-forums, which I loved to read. Back then he was entertaining.

Edited by FLG 01, 18 March 2017 - 08:47 PM.

[Pyed]

I am so glad IS is actually going to get a thing the clams don't just have a better version of.

[Xetelian]

I'm all for the HAG.

I don't see it being over powered at all if you have to have face-time to get all your shots out like a RAC.

[BoldricKent]

Read a weapon description : its a alternative version of gauss rifle, which delivers it damage in small shells rather
then one big one (LBX), but it uses cluster table(which means HAG40 doesnt deliver 40(8X5) all the time, most of the time
youll do between 20-30 damage spread in grouping of 5)- much like LRMs. It isnt quite crit seeking weapon like LBX or Silver Bullet Gauss, but it dish out much more damage then any other version.
Its still a gauss rifle, still PPDF in its origin, charge up... but no tracking, unless they change damage model delivery.

[Tarogato]

I actually wouldn't really mind if HAG was balanced to be bad, and pretty useless... if at least it meant we could bring in some of the mechs that are supposed to mount it (like the GAR-M, MDD-F, WHM-IIC-5, there's probably others.)

[The Basilisk]

brroleg, on 17 March 2017 - 11:50 PM, said:

First, why it should have been introduced into game together with IS getting RAC? Because HAG is basically clan RAC. Here full description from Sarna.



And now how it can be made into the game to be both balanced and very fun. So since its based on gauss technology it should have:

a) same charge mechanic as gauss.
When using HAG ingame you press button to charge, aim, then release button and based on the HAG size (HAG20,HAG30,HAG40) number of bullets (20, 30 or 40) will fire with same firerate as IS RAC. Balance factor here is that unlike IS RAC, you can shoot only fixed number of bullets (20,30 or 40) based on the HAG size, you cant shoot less or more than (20,30 or 40) bullets per one charge-and-fire cycle. And since all three of HAG sizes should have same ammo per ton (lets say 100 rounds per tonn) - you would be able to shoot biggest HAG40 only 2 times from 1 ton of ammo.

б) same projectile speed and range as gauss. Yes, all three of HAG sizes (HAG20, HAG30, HAG40) should have same range and projectile speed as current Gauss Rifle in game. (as they are on Sarna wiki)

c) cool futuristic sound of shooting like this one https://youtu.be/cXaEP7jGVOs?t=4m20s

As you may have noticed the comming update is called "Civil War"
The HAG is a post civilwar / Blakes Word Jihad era weapon and could be introduced with the other Jihad era weapons on Clan and IS side in a far future update.

Edited by The Basilisk, 29 March 2017 - 01:11 AM.

[brroleg]

The Basilisk, on 29 March 2017 - 12:59 AM, said:

As you may have noticed the comming update is called "Civil War"
The HAG is a post civilwar / Blakes Word Jihad era weapon and could be introduced with the other Jihad era weapons on Clan and IS side in a far future update.

Heavy Machine Gun Year Availability IS = 3068
http://www.sarna.net...avy_Machine_Gun
Light Machine Gun Year Availability IS = 3068 (CC)
http://www.sarna.net...ght_Machine_Gun
Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle Year Availability 3068 CHH
http://www.sarna.net..._Gauss_Rifle_30

[Snowbluff]

Catten Hart, on 18 March 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

Okay, so... The reason I think we didn't get Hyper Assault Gauss Rifles is how much of a balancing headache they'll be. I mean, you have so many weapons getting added that'll undoubtedly need some adjustments when they first come in (MRMs, Rotary Autocannons).

I think that PGI just didn't want the Clans to get yet another weapon that could be called incredibly overpowered, lest they be accused of pandering to the Clan Players even further. And honestly, I understand it, even if diehard Clanners are butthurt over the result. Now, I would've loved them, and honestly, if they were implemented it wouldn't be so bad. I mean, they are apparently inaccurate enough at range to warrant cluster hit penalties at range in tabletop. But that's still a possible 20-30 point buzzsaw (HAGR 40s aren't released until 3069, IIRC) at closer ranges.

But with how Clanners do in CW, and with how so many people complain about how Clanners are OP, I imagine that PGI felt they (The Clan Mechs) didn't need another reason to be complained about more, another reason to be even better.

That, and the nightmare that would be a quad HAGR-20 Kodiak KDK-3. That'd be downright "FML, quitting game" territory at times, that.

Quad HAG will likely be impossible. Quad gauss can't fire simulataneously. You can't fit 4 with an XL (so it's basically unusable entirely). HAGs actually have heat as well, plus the face time and likely ghost heat, I don't expect it to be viable.

Edited by Snowbluff, 29 March 2017 - 07:02 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Snowbluff, on 29 March 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

Quad HAG will likely be impossible. Quad gauss can't fire simulataneously. You can't fit 4 with an XL (so it's basically unusable entirely). HAGs actually have heat as well, plus the face time and likely ghost heat, I don't expect it to be viable.

Quad of lighter HAGs is certainly possible.

Quad Gauss with XL (if that's what you mean) is definitely doable, you can try one on the Dire Wolf with aggressive armor shaving. You were probably thinking about the KDK-3.

if there's a Clan Assault BattleMech with 1B on each ARM and ST, then it would be ideal for XL Quad Gauss.

[StealthdragonB]

Hit the Deck, on 29 March 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

Quad of lighter HAGs is certainly possible.

Quad Gauss with XL (if that's what you mean) is definitely doable, you can try one on the Dire Wolf with aggressive armor shaving. You were probably thinking about the KDK-3.

if there's a Clan Assault BattleMech with 1B on each ARM and ST, then it would be ideal for XL Quad Gauss.

HAGs might get the ability to fire in larger groups considering the fact they aren't pin point like gauss too, which is probably the main reason for the limit (you can fire has many LBX 20s as you want fine, not that there is a current mech that I think could carry more than 2, maybe when the annihilatior comes out).

[LurmzMackenzie]

Battlemaster56, on 18 March 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

I really don't really see any need of concern about RAC's since the ones that gonna use the living crap out of them gonna be the Mauler, King Crab, and the Annihilator once it comes out. I have ore concern of heavy lasers mostly medium class that gonna be broken 10 damage for the cost of extra heat and range of a std medium laser, this gonna be the next best brawling weapon in the game.

In TT heavy lasers explode the same as gauss rifles. Only the improved heavy lasers do not explode.

[El Bandito]

LurmzMackenzie, on 01 April 2017 - 06:17 AM, said:

In TT heavy lasers explode the same as gauss rifles. Only the improved heavy lasers do not explode.

Curious. In Sarna it says the opposite. IHL is the one that explodes. http://www.sarna.net...avy_Large_Laser

[FLG 01]

Battlemaster56, on 18 March 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

I really don't really see any need of concern about RAC's since the ones that gonna use the living crap out of them gonna be the Mauler, King Crab, and the Annihilator once it comes out. I have ore concern of heavy lasers mostly medium class that gonna be broken 10 damage for the cost of extra heat and range of a std medium laser, this gonna be the next best brawling weapon in the game.

Should not be a problem if they adhere to the lore:

"With the increased power, interference attributed to an intentional shielding reduction around the laser emitters (as well as a noticeable “pre-charge” phase that adds a subtle fi ring delay with every trigger pull) plays havoc with these weapons’ accuracy." (TM, 226)

So, charge up plus inaccurate fire.

El Bandito, on 01 April 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Curious. In Sarna it says the opposite. IHL is the one that explodes. http://www.sarna.net...avy_Large_Laser

That's correct:

"Though simpler solutions included additional shielding, Clan Goliath Scorpion reportedly hit upon a more elegant solution meshing limited shielding with a modified plasma lasing chemistry. The only drawback was the more powerful capacitors needed to power these weapons, which are prone to Gauss-like explosions if damaged in combat."
(TO, 321)

[Battlemaster56]

FLG 01, on 01 April 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

Should not be a problem if they adhere to the lore:

"With the increased power, interference attributed to an intentional shielding reduction around the laser emitters (as well as a noticeable “pre-charge” phase that adds a subtle fi ring delay with every trigger pull) plays havoc with these weapons’ accuracy." (TM, 226)

So, charge up plus inaccurate fire.

I didn't know they require a charge time, too so that's basically 4 things against Heavy lasers. Still waiting to see how pgi works it before I start making conclusions but a charge up time really gonna hurt it.

[Andi Nagasia]

BoldricKent, on 18 March 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

And HAG is not at counter for IS RAC, but Silver bullet Gauss rifle, which is actually an LBX take on Gauss tech.
And the prototype was in our time frame, while production was delayed in 70-80. Or a Heavy Gauss rifle, which
shares its damage decline with ranges.

as we are not seeing any Experimental Tech, thats why i can say we probably wont see Silver bullet Gauss,

BoldricKent, on 18 March 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

Clan have their own RAC but they just get introduced a bit latter with batter range and less crit slots/tonnage of course.
Copycats..

well actually Clan RACs are +2Crits Larger than their IS counter parts,
almost like reverse Current IS ACs

[Y E O N N E]

brroleg, on 18 March 2017 - 12:33 AM, said:

HAG would make balance more easy since its almost direct counterpart to IS RAC. Adding IS RAC without adding similar counterpart to other side is what will make balancing a headache.

Clan RAC is the most direct counterpart to the IS RAC.

[Andi Nagasia]

Yeonne Greene, on 01 April 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Clan RAC is the most direct counterpart to the IS RAC.

yup this, though i am curious on how they will impliment RACs perhaps a Jam Bar they have been talking about? who knows,

[brroleg]

Yeonne Greene, on 01 April 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Clan RAC is the most direct counterpart to the IS RAC.

Clan RAC is experimental tech (aka not existed outside test fields)