59 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

Mystere, on 27 March 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

My solution to solving the long-range meta problem is to require at least 50% of MWO maps to be relatively dense environments, with maximum sight lines of 300m.

PGI I would do that...and place a huge free area in the middle

[R Valentine]

Bush Hopper, on 27 March 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

PGI I would do that...and place a huge free area in the middle

Pretty much. PGI hates brawler friendly environments. Just look what they did to frozen city. It's god awful now.

[LordNothing]

was running my 6 asrm4 linebacker and it was pretty brutal, getting kills left and right, and not overheating provided i only fire 3 at a time. and the mech is fast enough to run them into targets. i didnt even notice the nerf. on the other hand i never really run the asrm4, i used to just run stock srm4s. i did have another linebacker with a erppc, 2srm4, and 2 ermls, and they did seem to spread a bit more, but they were still effective.

[R Valentine]

LordNothing, on 27 March 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

was running my 6 asrm4 linebacker and it was pretty brutal, getting kills left and right, and not overheating provided i only fire 3 at a time. and the mech is fast enough to run them into targets. i didnt even notice the nerf. on the other hand i never really run the asrm4, i used to just run stock srm4s. i did have another linebacker with a erppc, 2srm4, and 2 ermls, and they did seem to spread a bit more, but they were still effective.

The nerf was really only for non-Artemis SRM4s. ASRM 4s are tighter than ASRM 6s and ASRM 6s were always good. SRM4s were just good enough to be usable. Now, not so much. They were an alternative to ASRM 6s to save weight for other guns or ammo. Now you may as well just get all ASRM 6s.

[Mole]

Kiran Yagami, on 27 March 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

The nerf was really only for non-Artemis SRM4s. ASRM 4s are tighter than ASRM 6s and ASRM 6s were always good. SRM4s were just good enough to be usable. Now, not so much. They were an alternative to ASRM 6s to save weight for other guns or ammo. Now you may as well just get all ASRM 6s.

Kiran, will you stop trying to tell me that SRM4s are now unusable when I have been playing with my Assasins since the patch and they are living off of non-artemis SRM4s and doing a bangup job of it? They are usable. They are very usable. You know why? Because I'm using them. I can run up to just about any enemy 'mech with this: ASN-23 or this: ASN-21 and melt their machine in short order. I know PGI nerfing the spread on SRM4s seems to have blown out the blood vessels in your eyes but trust me, they are still very decent weapons.

[R Valentine]

Mole, on 27 March 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

Kiran, will you stop trying to tell me that SRM4s are now unusable when I have been playing with my Assasins since the patch and they are living off of non-artemis SRM4s and doing a bangup job of it? They are usable. They are very usable. You know why? Because I'm using them. I can run up to just about any enemy 'mech with this: ASN-23 or this: ASN-21 and melt their machine in short order. I know PGI nerfing the spread on SRM4s seems to have blown out the blood vessels in your eyes but trust me, they are still very decent weapons.

SRM 4s are unusable.

[Mole]

Kiran Yagami, on 27 March 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

SRM 4s are unusable.

Whatever, man.

[Khobai]

Quote

My solution to solving the long-range meta problem is to require at least 50% of MWO maps to be relatively dense environments, with maximum sight lines of 300m.

my solution is to decrease erppc range to 690m. thats the range its supposed to be. not 810m.

[SeaLabCaptn]

https://mwomercs.com...36#entry5668336

If the results of this fine soul's work are accurate then I am not fond of the recent SRM4 nerf. Specifically this result: PGI recently nerfed SRM4 spread. I saw a need to close 10 extra meters to achieve the same consistency as compared to before.

The inaccuracy of my quad SRM4 GRF-2N is very noticeable upon firing, and the match score difference is less obvious but still detected. No skin off my nose, it's always been among my best performing mechs and I honestly felt it needed a toning down. However I'm not sure global weapon nerf was the way to go.

"No one packs a solitary SRM4" is untrue, and is where my issue lies. COM-1B, JR7-K, SDR-A, and PRT-9R just for IS lights as examples. All these have a single CT missile hardpoint with slot limitations. Again, assuming this test is accurate, this means these lights need to endanger themselves further than before to be accurate. This is a luxury these "under performers" cannot afford. SRM4 very well might have needed adjustment but I'm upset over what seems to be another detriment to the light class.

Sorry for unorthodox quoting, I'm rushed and on mobile.

[Shifty McSwift]

mogs01gt, on 27 March 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

IMO with how much the meta and maps benefit long range, brawling with SRMs simply makes the game hardmode.

Not if you do it right, and by the same measure that people rag on lrm boats they should probably rag on srm boats to the same degree as it is more of a coordinated team choice rather than something that should be boated in every quick match you join, so results will vary massively in those pug circumstances.

The trick to the srm brawler is to have like 3 of them, who all move around 80-100kph or more, who fight together and know what kind of map paths they should be taking to close range with minimal risk. Also take an AMS in those srm boats ffs lol, it makes distance closing so much damn easier and you only need half a ton of ammo in most cases for that role.

[mogs01gt]

Shifty McSwift, on 28 March 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

Not if you do it right, and by the same measure that people rag on lrm boats they should probably rag on srm boats to the same degree as it is more of a coordinated team choice rather than something that should be boated in every quick match you join, so results will vary massively in those pug circumstances.
The trick to the srm brawler is to have like 3 of them, who all move around 80-100kph or more, who fight together and know what kind of map paths they should be taking to close range with minimal risk. Also take an AMS in those srm boats ffs lol, it makes distance closing so much damn easier and you only need half a ton of ammo in most cases for that role.

First: no-ones gives a **** about group queue
second: the game shouldnt be balanced around group queue

IS SRM brawlers took a bigger hit because of the lack of range on their lasers and/or lack of engine due to big AC weapons. I tested out a Crow running 2xASRM6 and 4 ERMLs last night. It was usable because of the range of the MLs. A similar IS mech(4sp)with the effective range of 200m is just pathetic.

Edited by mogs01gt, 28 March 2017 - 04:56 AM.

[Gattsus]

Alright, thr 2N 4xSRM4 without artemis + 2 mpl, is doing OK for me. I prefer the pinpoint, extra damage and having that little extra time to torso twist of the mpls, than having the longer range and burn duration of the ml. Also, the burn duration and the cooldown of the mpl almost matches the cooldown of the smr4s.

Do I notice the nerf? not really.
Would artemis be great? defo.

Edited by Gattsus, 28 March 2017 - 04:57 AM.

[R Valentine]

mogs01gt, on 28 March 2017 - 04:36 AM, said:

First: no-ones gives a **** about group queue
second: the game shouldnt be balanced around group queue

IS SRM brawlers took a bigger hit because of the lack of range on their lasers and/or lack of engine due to big AC weapons. I tested out a Crow running 2xASRM6 and 4 ERMLs last night. It was usable because of the range of the MLs. A similar IS mech(4sp)with the effective range of 200m is just pathetic.

You just realized this now? Everything about clan mechs makes them better brawlers. No side torso deaths, faster, access to better autocannons, longer range pulse lasers(which is huge, clan LPLs feel like ERLLs). I dropped ButterBee for the Mad Dog a long time ago and I don't even miss the jump jets. It's also nice not to have all your guns on your Micky Mouse ears, which essentially fly off when anything looks at them funny.

[mogs01gt]

Kiran Yagami, on 28 March 2017 - 05:12 AM, said:

You just realized this now? Everything about clan mechs makes them better brawlers. No side torso deaths, faster, access to better autocannons, longer range pulse lasers(which is huge, clan LPLs feel like ERLLs). I dropped ButterBee for the Mad Dog a long time ago and I don't even miss the jump jets. It's also nice not to have all your guns on your Micky Mouse ears, which essentially fly off when anything looks at them funny.

umm no I've realized this for a while now, but now the Clans have widen their dominance even more since IS SRM brawlers effective range has been reduced.

Edited by mogs01gt, 28 March 2017 - 05:26 AM.

[R Valentine]

mogs01gt, on 28 March 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

umm no I've realized this for a while now, but now the Clans have widen their dominance even more since IS SRM brawlers effective range has been reduced.

Yea, SRMS were one of the few things actually perform better on the IS side, in spite of being heavier, since the spread is tighter and the range is the same, but we can't have IS being good or anything so they had to nerf that. Yes, clan SRM4s got nerfed too, but tonnage isn't the premium on clan mechs that it is on IS so I can afford to upgrade to ASRM6.

Edited by Kiran Yagami, 28 March 2017 - 05:37 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Kiran Yagami, on 28 March 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

Yea, SRMS were one of the few things actually perform better on the IS side, in spite of being heavier, since the spread is tighter and the range is the same, but we can't have IS being good or anything so they had to nerf that. Yes, clan SRM4s got nerfed too, but tonnage isn't the premium on clan mechs that it is on IS so I can afford to upgrade to ASRM6.

example builds:
KTO-18
SCR-PRIME

Same hardpoints but the difference is clear. The Crow has more effective range, more speed, no ST death and more damage.

Ignore the mech, just using it as an example. Before you could run this and have more DPS but now its not worth running SRM4s without artemis.
KTO-18

[Steve Pryde]

Khobai, on 27 March 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

my solution is to decrease erppc range to 690m. thats the range its supposed to be. not 810m.

Funny thing is, ER-PPC range from a stock Night Gyr prime with range module is nearly 1000 meters and you can do gauss+dual ppc on it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mystere, on 27 March 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

My solution to solving the long-range meta problem is to require at least 50% of MWO maps to be relatively dense environments, with maximum sight lines of 300m.

Except that would make any higher level of play brawling only.

Look, people, you are going to have to accept the fact that in order for higher level play to co-exist with the casual environment and be diverse, not everything is going to work well in solo queue because of the lack of coordination. ERLL and SRMs are always going to be hard mode in solo queue because of the fact they are extreme ends of range thus meaning they take more coordination to pull off compared to mid/long.

[R Valentine]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 March 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

Except that would make any higher level of play brawling only.

Look, people, you are going to have to accept the fact that in order for higher level play to co-exist with the casual environment and be diverse, not everything is going to work well in solo queue because of the lack of coordination. ERLL and SRMs are always going to be hard mode in solo queue because of the fact they are extreme ends of range thus meaning they take more coordination to pull off compared to mid/long.

Why would ERLL ever be hard in solo queue? Even the clan version is usable in solo queue because you'll always find someone who sucks at spreading damage, and the clan version blows. So why would that ever be not useful? Or ERPPC? Or Gauss? Having long range weapons makes you always helpful. Sure, at short range you don't pack a ton of punch, but you still pack some punch. Having SRMs at long range means you pack no punch, and since MWO punishes you so hard for having poor positioning, staying at long range is much easier than closing in to short range, especially in solo queue. I really don't care what's good at the competitive level and what isn't. I wouldn't care if only brawling was viable at the competitive level. The game shouldn't be balanced around competitive play, because the vast majority of players don't play at that level. Top tier players will always find a way to break the game one way or another. That shouldn't determine the direction of the game.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Kiran Yagami, on 28 March 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

Why would ERLL ever be hard in solo queue?

Because maintaining the range advantage against Gauss/PPC/UACs which all have better DPS for long enough is pretty difficult outside of maps like Polar and maybe Frozen.

ERLL is in a different range bracket than Gauss/PPCs. ERPPC can be if quirked right or on the right mech, but typically ERLL > ERPPC at extreme range.

Kiran Yagami, on 28 March 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

The game shouldn't be balanced around competitive play, because the vast majority of players don't play at that level.

That doesn't mean it can't be useful. Don't get me wrong, there are some differences between the PUG queue and comp (aggressive play is much more viable in comp, lights are less useful, etc) but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be in consideration just because it is the minority because the health of the comp scene is a sign a sign of health of the larger population for PvP games. Generally, that is true, not always though (since some games are more casual oriented and thus suffer more player turnover, but those tend to lack depth).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 March 2017 - 07:42 AM.