86 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

I keep thinking if they had made Solaris properly and then just moved towards competitive it would have been so much better. But what ever. Got to keep it as tame and uncool as possible I guess.

[Jingseng]

I think toxic, screaming players having a chance to enact their competitive aggression will spur their sense of entitlement to new levels. And I think pgi listening to them and focusing on their input, to 'balance' and 'direct' the game and 'make it an esport' will sound a death knell and a slow slide into oblivion as it generally has for every mmo that tries it. Because you can either cater to the small percentage and pray it grows while screwing/driving away the rest of the players, or vice versa... but both is impossible.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Davegt27, on 11 April 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

Dakota did you listen to the COMP roundtable?

At the end comp players hit Russ with a long list of requests and desired changes
For not only 8v8 but also 1v1 and so on

I think Russ was a little surprised
Why well it further splits the small player base

Most comp players don't go near QP and they have a pretty elitist attitude

I plan to point out some differences from pugsville and comp
Like I don't get to map ban
Don't like SSRMs well that's to bad
Ever drop call a pug team and on the other side is KCOM
Us pugs drop whenever with whoever on any map


Jmtcw

I never watched the comp round table myself, I usually read some notes on them, though I saw none for this round table.

I've love a 1v1 mode with leaderboard and ranking and all that myself.

I can see why most comp players would not like to stay around in quick play. I'd stay away from quick play myself if I had a unit that had enough people playing at any given time. It is much more fun to not deal with everyone just derping around if you're in it to win it. No need to be elitist about it, some people want different things out of stuff, but everyone has their own personality so it is bound that someone would be elitist about it.

There is a lot of distaste for casuals in the comp community here since the comps are constantly forced to deal with the casuals rather than being split away from them so that they can both have their own brand of fun. If you where there to win the game and play your best every game and run your best builds how would you like it if every time half the team was running terrible builds and doing stupid stuff that costs you the game? Many players don't let that go while many others are there to be running bad builds and Ramboing on in without care of the team.

[LordNothing]

Davegt27, on 11 April 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

Dakota did you listen to the COMP roundtable?

At the end comp players hit Russ with a long list of requests and desired changes
For not only 8v8 but also 1v1 and so on

I think Russ was a little surprised
Why well it further splits the small player base

Most comp players don't go near QP and they have a pretty elitist attitude

I plan to point out some differences from pugsville and comp
Like I don't get to map ban
Don't like SSRMs well that's to bad
Ever drop call a pug team and on the other side is KCOM
Us pugs drop whenever with whoever on any map


Jmtcw

something like a 1v1 queue kind of makes sense. firstly its a premium time feature and if you are running it suddenly you have a 1v1 button at the top, so its actually showing you what you paid for instead of hiding it in the custom game menus. this alone might sell more premium time. i dont even see it as a bucket issue either because its just singles looking for duals. even trying to match tier becomes easy when its just 1v1.

8v8 is going to be strictly groups, no pugs, and so wont use traditional buckets. its probibly going to be anything goes so long as its 2222 like what was done in mwowc. idk how the ranking is going to work, is it going to be strictly units or can any set of players play it. always the same players? how will rankings and elo work with regards to these groups if the groups arent static sets of players? its probibly going to be a when 2 teams can arrange a match between them kinda system.

[El Bandito]

I know I'm gonna be participating on the competitive ladder, with or without my (MS) mates. Would be nice if we can get additional rewards for doing well in a season.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

LordNothing, on 11 April 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

8v8 is going to be strictly groups, no pugs, and so wont use traditional buckets.

Just wondering if you have a source on that somewhere. I would have assumed it would be a queue similar to the current solo queue but set for 8v8 and would have the title "Comp queue" sorta similar to how CSGO has their competitive mode and their casual mode. It would be open to groups but also allow non premade teams to enter. This would allow it to actually be an active queue, as if it was just groups only it would be rather dead, and PGI tried that once before in a 12v12 teams only queue.

[Khalcruth]

Jettrik Ryflix, on 11 April 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

This was the most exciting thing I saw in the Road Map.

I am pumped for 8v8, I believe the quality of play improves dramatically with smaller teams. (4v4 Scouting mode is a BLAST to play.)

I'd say just the opposite. I remember when it was 8v8, and think the game was vastly improved when it went up to 12v12. Heck, I'd be happier if it went to 16v16 or 20v20. The bigger the groups, the more room there is for coordination. Scouting mode is fun because it's brawling instead of sniping, not because it's 4v4. I really don't see the appeal of 8v8.

[Mcgral18]

...less Potato?


Aw yiss



If headshots/achievements count, I'll also be happy
(but probably not, as many rely on the 12 VS 12 environment)

[Jettrik Ryflix]

Khalcruth, on 11 April 2017 - 07:57 PM, said:

I'd say just the opposite. I remember when it was 8v8, and think the game was vastly improved when it went up to 12v12. Heck, I'd be happier if it went to 16v16 or 20v20. The bigger the groups, the more room there is for coordination. Scouting mode is fun because it's brawling instead of sniping, not because it's 4v4. I really don't see the appeal of 8v8.

Well, I guess we have different ideas of fun then.

Big team coordination can be fun, but I like the idea of a single player having more impact in a match. I.E. - it's really hard to carry against 12 enemies. 8 is more manageable.

Also, the reason Scouting mode has so much brawling is because it's small. It's harder to engage in a brawl when you're facing a big team - it's too easy to get shot in the back, or ambushed by 5-7 mechs that you didn't see coming. This inherently breeds sniping, which are less risky by nature.
In 4v4, you get an idea of where the enemy is, and can "safely" brawl while keeping tabs on all 4 mechs.

[Mystere]

Jettrik Ryflix, on 11 April 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

I am pumped for 8v8, I believe the quality of play improves dramatically with smaller teams. (4v4 Scouting mode is a BLAST to play.)

Jettrik Ryflix, on 11 April 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

... but I like the idea of a single player having more impact in a match. I.E. - it's really hard to carry against 12 enemies. 8 is more manageable.

With that kind of logic, why don't we just get rid of teams entirely and just have 1x1 all day every day?

[Jingseng]

Mystere, on 11 April 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

With that kind of logic, why don't we just get rid of teams entirely and just have 1x1 all day every day?

0x0 or gtfo scrub.

[Khobai]

Quote

With that kind of logic, why don't we just get rid of teams entirely and just have 1x1 all day every day?

I think its based off the fact that 8v8 used to be more fun than 12v12 is now. which I generally agree with.

[DaZur]

I foresee... a lot of players who think they're comp getting their arses handed to them unceremoniously.

You will not find me there. I know my limits and I refuse to be clubbed and used to line someone's designer coat!

[LordNothing]

Dakota1000, on 11 April 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

Just wondering if you have a source on that somewhere. I would have assumed it would be a queue similar to the current solo queue but set for 8v8 and would have the title "Comp queue" sorta similar to how CSGO has their competitive mode and their casual mode. It would be open to groups but also allow non premade teams to enter. This would allow it to actually be an active queue, as if it was just groups only it would be rather dead, and PGI tried that once before in a 12v12 teams only queue.

thats just what it sounded like when i was reading the patch notes. its kind of a short and rather vague and its likely that pgi hasnt worked it all out yet. so the best i can do is give my interpretation of the facts.

Quote

8v8 Competitive/Ranked Mode
Competitive play is set to receive an official presence in MechWarrior Online this June with the release of an ELO-Ranked 8v8 mode, featuring competitive leaderboards, team registration and management features, competitive play lobbies, detailed statistics and standings, and more. We are also planning to release an API intended to provide community-run leagues and tournaments with the ability to draw match data for use in their own bracket and match result systems.

there is going to be a "team registration and management" system, which seems to indicate that anyone who wants to use it will have to create and register a team in order to play. these teams are going to be "elo ranked". seeing as elo was meant to rate participants of a 1v1 game it didnt make much sense for individual rankings (why we have psr), but it works great for rating a consistent team roster. "competitive play lobbies" could just be team lobbies, where the teams have to be set up before hand. at that point any team (which has to be registered) can join the lobby, and will mostly allow teams to work on improving their elo rating and standings on the leaderboard.

if this is what it says on the tin, then the last thing you want is a bunch of pugs looking to play it for fun. a casual group is one thing, but a random assortment of pugs is something else. i have no problem with this being a strictly groups only thing. you let pugs play in the same fp queues as competitive players and look at the excrement storm that caused (and is still raging to this day, despite what i see as vast improvements). do we really want to do that again?

Edited by LordNothing, 11 April 2017 - 11:00 PM.

[El Bandito]

Dakota1000, on 11 April 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

Just wondering if you have a source on that somewhere. I would have assumed it would be a queue similar to the current solo queue but set for 8v8 and would have the title "Comp queue" sorta similar to how CSGO has their competitive mode and their casual mode. It would be open to groups but also allow non premade teams to enter. This would allow it to actually be an active queue, as if it was just groups only it would be rather dead, and PGI tried that once before in a 12v12 teams only queue.

Nah, I don't want to be matched with random pugs whom I never fought with, in comp queue. Team only requirements makes most sense, and as a bonus, it will not siphon off too many players from QP.

[Shifty McSwift]

Well, past a certain point (and also up to a certain point) gaps in numbers don't really mean as much. In theory 4 mechs using optimal coordination efforts and/or having an advantage in conditions can take out 12 mechs. I get what the OP says in getting at each mech is worth more when you cut the numbers down, but with less numbers comes less tactics too, I don't think cutting it from 12v12 to 8v8 will interrupt or detract from tactical plays too much (if at all), but at the level of 4v4 it is a large change.

I would be more excited to see some modes that played out as 8v12 or 10v14 etc, where the outnumbered team gets positional or terrain advantage. Not necessarily for QP, but to add to the unique nature of faction warfare.

[justcallme A S H]

Cathy, on 11 April 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

It will be full of people for about a month, and then the crying will start, about always dropping against hard comp teams, and it will either get dumbed down, or abandoned by 85-95% of the population just like F.W has been.

If it does by some miracle remain populated it will kill off F.W completely and have an adverse effect on group play.

Well yes and no.

If it's being used for the MWO OC - Teams won't have much of a choice, they have to use it to be ranked and what have you.

That said...

The first MWO OC had a massive amount of teams entered. If people have to use this "ladder" system for weeks on end. I would imagine that would knock that number down considerably. Once you have to draw up rosters, it's limiting to number of people etc etc. Only the truly hardcore will be in it.

Any low grade/amateur teams will be debating if it's even worth the effort at all even with a ELO system (if it's even designed properly, who knows). I'm not sure I CBFd with 2-3 months of comp matches to "seed" and waste time searching and a ELO, a system that actually needs volume to work properly.

Dakota1000, on 11 April 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

Just wondering if you have a source on that somewhere.

The round table and it's summary?

You said you read the summary... That was clearly stated in it - It's strictly organised teams with organised rosters/captains etc etc. There will be no solo dropping or two teams of 4 "pairing" up.

[JC Daxion]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 11 April 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Which is why several suggested just having a window where it was open. The problem is Russ thinks it needs to be wider than it really does (it just needs to be when matches are normally scheduled for MRBC right now).

Can't the community come up with their own times they would like to see windows open and packed with people?

they gave us the tools for CW, and people don't really which is sad. This might be a simpler one. Get hype out on the forums about playing and having fun, verse complaining about PGI. Maybe there will be a Comp channel.. people can say, Hey Saturday 8 PM is Comp time.. Or maybe its a Late night window on a Friday, Or maybe a weekday afternoon. Get people working together to get matches.

Really this should be a good system over all just listening to how it will work. Come up with some times during the day, or a few days a week, and get people playing then. A little effort on players parts is what is needed with smaller games.



Now faction war, is something i can really see as open windows, and event based for sure.

But with only 8v8, all you need is a couple teams and people could just get match after match. not sure what the cooldown timer is, but my guess is the matchess will go off perhaps every 20 mins?

Edited by JC Daxion, 12 April 2017 - 01:23 AM.

[Alan Davion]

LordNothing, on 11 April 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

and is still raging to this day

Yeah, it's still raging because the game mode has stagnated worse than MWO itself has stagnated.

The best teams are still using the best mechs.

They still beat the ever loving piss out of anyone dumb enough to try and play, causing them to stop playing.

Which invariably leads to them having no one to play (or should I say bludgeon with their superior tech), which of course leads to them complaining.

PGI caves and makes an event to try and get people to play again, which only starts the cycle over again.

All the team hopping really needs to stop. Not to mention the whole Clan Merc thing is the dumbest thing ever with that game mode. Clans should not have Mercs. Period. Clans should be the same as choosing the "Loyalist" option for IS. As in, you choose that faction, you're permanently locked into that faction.

Of course, if the game had a population to sustain such a choice, that wouldn't be a problem, but since it does have such a pathetically low population, and it's likely growing smaller by the day, CW really should just be shut down since all its doing right now is taking up space that would be better served by other game modes or functions.

[Clownwarlord]

8 v 8 is the right amount for comp but I hope that they limit the game modes for some maps. Reason why is HPG camping in the bottom is and was an issue in early comp days.

Also since there is an issue with pay to win I hope they say and keep it simple with only mechs that are available for cbills allowed.

After that I hope the seasons are not to short and I hope they are not troll fests ... only seeing top tier teams dropping and being thrown against them when you know your not that good can turn this into a turn off.