164 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

Gr Armpit, on 20 April 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

So what you are saying is that a HBK-IIC is stronger than the hero MDD? Tell me what is OP. Also, if you want to see a lack of complexity-go play MWLL

There is so much complexity in this game. The different loadouts on a mech. you can't just say "I want lots of lasers" You have to take into account armor range heat and all sorts of other stuff. Quirks need to be taken into account on all IS mechs, and on some clan mechs (IFR).

Basically, anyone saying this game is not complex, is saying I don't like this game. Unfortunately, for those saying that, this is my favorite game

This game can be exactly as complex as the user wants it to be...


...until he queues for a game

[Luscious Dan]

The game is plenty complex, just ask any new player who wanders in off the street and can't begin to wrap their head around mechlab, ghost heat, quirks, and whatever else. Skill tree could potentially make it a lot worse, since there's a lot of stats of the enemy mech that you have to guess at all of a sudden (e.g., you don't know if they have max armor/structure skills or not... which is my biggest beef with it).

The meta isn't necessarily complex though, you pretty much just end up with PPFLD vs more messy DPS builds. That reductionist view doesn't tell the whole story by any means, and comp play certainly has a LOT of nuance to it, but for most people just hitting launch and going pew-pew-pew that's the most simplistic way to view the way the game actually plays out. Are they doing big damage spikes every 4-5 seconds or holding down the trigger for sustained periods of time.

[Ravenlord]

Prosperity Park, on 18 April 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

Yeah, you can also save time by going away.

It sad to see so many people thing that Mech upgrades should be kept behind paywalls in a F2P game.

I wonder if this can be explained in a way that little school children can understand...

"So, PGI had decided to sell special versions of Mechs that can shoot gold bullets from their arms, but you have to buy those mechs with cash. Now, you could have taken that gold bullet arm off the special mech and put it on your normal mechs to upgrade them into normal mechs that can now shoot gold bullets.
"People didn't think that gold bullet mech parts should only be available for cash, so PGI decided to make normal mechs that can shoot gold bullets, too, and made them available to players without requiring cash."

People who complain about PGI's resolution can go play a game with cash-only premium ammo, and you better not complain about it. Have fun!

I never complained about gold ammo in WoT, and that undeniably did give a way bigger advantage as a single omnipod module for 2 or 3 mechs out of hundreds which you still can only use on one mech if you don't buy multiples of the hero. The reasons I left were completely different.
I don't have a loyalty summoner or rather the corresponding loyalty hardpoints yet either and it will be some time stil till I can get it for free and do you see me crying about it? I do well enough without owning that single omni pod for a single mech chassis out of all the ones that are available and am not missing out on any fun or anything.

My point is: I'm not gonna pay 10 or more $ for an overpriced paint job.

It's sad to see so many people feel entitled to get everything for free nowadays while seeming completely oblivious (or rather don't give a f*ck) to the fact other people are paying for it or they wouldn't have a game to play in the first place.

Edited by Ravenlord, 22 April 2017 - 05:09 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Ravenlord, on 22 April 2017 - 05:05 AM, said:

It's sad to see so many people feel entitled to get everything for free nowadays while seeming completely oblivious (or rather don't give a f*ck) to the fact other people are paying for it or they wouldn't have a game to play in the first place.

First off. Slow your roll. Second off that doesn't apply here, because any in game asset can be given away for free without consequence, as long as its not on pre-order.

[Grus]

Another way of how imuch seeing this is; I'm hungry, I go to the store and see Golden Gram cereal. Man that looks tasty! I buy it and when I make my self a bowel I find its realy filled with Total l... I'm still eating it because I'm hungry but I really wanted and paid for the other.

[MovinTarget]

Grus, on 24 April 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

Another way of how imuch seeing this is; I'm hungry, I go to the store and see Golden Gram cereal. Man that looks tasty! I buy it and when I make my self a bowel I find its realy filled with Total l... I'm still eating it because I'm hungry but I really wanted and paid for the other.

Except you didn't have to eat it, you could have taken it back for a refund. Besides, you didn't buy Golden Grahams, you bought the "Golden Grahams that grant you some super power" and found it was just regular golden grahams with 30% more sugar...

Again, there are two types of players here: those ok with a paywall and those that are not. For PGI to change loadouts/hardpoints after announcing the heroes, make me think they actually concede the point that there was some level of p2w and they were willing to make changes that would actually reduce power creep, even at the risk of losing some dollars.

It remains to be seen if this was an overall necessary/smart move, but the fact that they actually were willing to backtrack rather than take in more $$$ says something about their priorities...

[Mechwarrior4670152]

Grus, on 24 April 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

Another way of how imuch seeing this is; I'm hungry, I go to the store and see Golden Gram cereal. Man that looks tasty! I buy it and when I make my self a bowel I find its realy filled with Total l... I'm still eating it because I'm hungry but I really wanted and paid for the other.

I look at it this way.

There were enough people who objected to it, that it was not financially feasible to give them Golden Gram.

IE
Those who wanted Golden Gram were in the minority.

How many businesses STAY businesses, by serving the minority over the majority
Especially with a population as small as this one?

Face it dude.
Like it or not....

You are on an island.

[Sniper09121986]

MovinTarget, on 24 April 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

It remains to be seen if this was an overall necessary/smart move, but the fact that they actually were willing to backtrack rather than take in more $$$ says something about their priorities...

The priorities are simple: long-term perspective. If they went for a quick cash grab they would alienate a major chunk of the player base, (if I do say that big-spenders are always a minority in a F2P game) and deny themselves purchases from these people and the game its future. We may argue about their decisions, but the motives behind these decisions are perfectly reasonable.

[MovinTarget]

Sniper09121986, on 24 April 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

The priorities are simple: long-term perspective. If they went for a quick cash grab they would alienate a major chunk of the player base, (if I do say that big-spenders are always a minority in a F2P game) and deny themselves purchases from these people and the game its future. We may argue about their decisions, but the motives behind these decisions are perfectly reasonable.

The only thing I would disagree is that it's the "big spenders" that aren't happy with this... I would consider myself a big spender, but I honestly don't want p2w as it is game-killing. Conversely, there are a lot of players that would only shell out $$$ for mechs if they felt those purchases specifically gave them an edge... Some may even call them cheapskates

I will reiterate my personal feeling that PGI has been pretty good about quashing paywall advantages in the past and as butthurt as some players may be by the backtracking, I bet its way preferable to them nerfing it *after* your purchase is non-refundable.

Edited by MovinTarget, 24 April 2017 - 02:21 PM.

[Sniper09121986]

MovinTarget, on 24 April 2017 - 02:20 PM, said:

The only thing I would disagree is that it's the "big spenders" that aren't happy with this... I would consider myself a big spender, but I honestly don't want p2w as it is game-killing. Conversely, there are a lot of players that would only shell out $$$ for mechs if they felt those purchases specifically gave them an edge... Some may even call them cheapskates

I will reiterate my personal feeling that PGI has been pretty good about quashing paywall advantages in the past and as butthurt as some players may be by the backtracking, I bet its way preferable to them nerfing it *after* your purchase is non-refundable.

Right, perhaps I was somewhat unclear. I am a relative cheapskate myself in that I do not spend easily, but after the news of a new tech release I bought the ultimate packs for both Cougar and Mad Cat just to support PGI for doing the right thing (not that the mechs are bad OFC). You, me and many of the players here are quite able to know a sensible and beneficial solution when we see one, and I was saying that P2W solutions, as unfair and uncompetitive as they are, essentially spell the end of a game, thus taking away all practical reasons to spend another dime on it. I may be unhappy that I am now unable to mount ECM on my other Ice Ferrets, but better that then the P2W shenanigans.

[Grus]

Sniper09121986, on 25 April 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

Right, perhaps I was somewhat unclear. I am a relative cheapskate myself in that I do not spend easily, but after the news of a new tech release I bought the ultimate packs for both Cougar and Mad Cat just to support PGI for doing the right thing (not that the mechs are bad OFC). You, me and many of the players here are quite able to know a sensible and beneficial solution when we see one, and I was saying that P2W solutions, as unfair and uncompetitive as they are, essentially spell the end of a game, thus taking away all practical reasons to spend another dime on it. I may be unhappy that I am now unable to mount ECM on my other Ice Ferrets, but better that then the P2W shenanigans.

my annoyance is that with the ice ferrit now I have to further reduce my firepower, that can be out alpha'd by mech's just as fast and have less weight. And smaller targets.. and come stock with ecm.... seems like a fair trade right?

And just to put it out there I'm using the 5spl ice ferrit.

[Mcgral18]

Grus, on 27 April 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

my annoyance is that with the ice ferrit now I have to further reduce my firepower, that can be out alpha'd by mech's just as fast and have less weight. And smaller targets.. and come stock with ecm.... seems like a fair trade right?

And just to put it out there I'm using the 5spl ice ferrit.

You CAN STILL USE THAT LOADOUT WITH ECM

There's a new hardpoint coming out
YOU GET IDENTICAL FIREPOWER WITH ECM


If you forgo ECM, you get ADDITIONAL firepower (aside from Prime)

[Chound]

MovinTarget, on 24 April 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

Except you didn't have to eat it, you could have taken it back for a refund. Besides, you didn't buy Golden Grahams, you bought the "Golden Grahams that grant you some super power" and found it was just regular golden grahams with 30% more sugar...

Again, there are two types of players here: those ok with a paywall and those that are not. For PGI to change loadouts/hardpoints after announcing the heroes, make me think they actually concede the point that there was some level of p2w and they were willing to make changes that would actually reduce power creep, even at the risk of losing some dollars.

It remains to be seen if this was an overall necessary/smart move, but the fact that they actually were willing to backtrack rather than take in more $$$ says something about their priorities...

One thing you seems to have missed in the comparison. Total is not the same cereal as Golden Grahams. Tootal contains flakes of a single grain That's like saying that getting an urbie when you ordered a spider is the same. For whatever reasons, PGI is releasing parts or variants that will allow the player to have something close to the Hero variant without paying MC. I really would like to see an option where you can buy MC for Cbills.

[MovinTarget]

Chound, on 30 April 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

One thing you seems to have missed in the comparison. Total is not the same cereal as Golden Grahams. Tootal contains flakes of a single grain That's like saying that getting an urbie when you ordered a spider is the same. For whatever reasons, PGI is releasing parts or variants that will allow the player to have something close to the Hero variant without paying MC. I really would like to see an option where you can buy MC for Cbills.

Either the exchange rate would brutal or would never happen. They have mouths to feed and you're basically suggesting that everything but the web-store cash purchases should be free...

Welp, would love to know the supermarket you go to that accepts monopoly money...

[Aramuside]

MovinTarget, on 20 April 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

Perhaps you weren't around when other heroes were OP... They are better off eating crow and giving refunds now than having them drop and have that paywall become real... they can always buff it more later if needed, but the rage for those who thought they were ensured a p2w mech (whether they would admit it or not) if they were to nerf it after would be salt-riddled pain...

Curious which heroes were OP (well IS ones as I've not bought the non pack clan hero ones). I remember some solid ones and some very sub standard ones. Huggin, Oxide and Dragon Slayer (back in the day)?

[Chound]

MovinTarget, on 30 April 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

Either the exchange rate would brutal or would never happen. They have mouths to feed and you're basically suggesting that everything but the web-store cash purchases should be free...

Welp, would love to know the supermarket you go to that accepts monopoly money...

Well, I don't like the idea of using cash to buy keys, to open the supply caches, decals, or colors You should be able to use In game currency. Cash for certain mechs I don't have a problem with. This reminds me of a tablet game I paly where the chance of opening a box is determined by the type of money you pay with.

[MovinTarget]

Aramuside, on 02 May 2017 - 02:16 AM, said:

Curious which heroes were OP (well IS ones as I've not bought the non pack clan hero ones). I remember some solid ones and some very sub standard ones. Huggin, Oxide and Dragon Slayer (back in the day)?

The salt was was real back when oxide and huggin were small and overquirked.

I petsonally loved the gridiron back when it fired gauss like ac5 rounds (yes it was that fast).

Yeah there were not many op heroes, but thats the point, they were supposed to be cool looking and some would atgue the 30% bonus on cbills offset their (genetally) subpar performance...

With the clan heroes you get the ability, if pgi is not careful to add pods to the mix in exceptionally lethal combinations due to the mix-n-match nature of omnipods so unlike IS heroes where once you know the loadout you had a pretty good idea how effective it would be, here you have to account for all the pod combinations.

That left them with a couple of options:
Fix the hardware on the heroes so they are not (fully) omnimechs
Walk back the designs and offer refunds
Let it ride and find out after the fact whether the original designs were struly op/p2w


Frankly, i think they chose the least evil of the three.

[MovinTarget]

Chound, on 02 May 2017 - 05:21 AM, said:

Well, I don't like the idea of using cash to buy keys, to open the supply caches, decals, or colors You should be able to use In game currency. Cash for certain mechs I don't have a problem with. This reminds me of a tablet game I paly where the chance of opening a box is determined by the type of money you pay with.

But none of the stuff you listed is really needed to play the game. Supply caches can be sold. You can get colors from events sometimes, but they and decals are fluff tbh.

Seriously, think about it... the only thing necessary to play this game that requires cash are mechbays. Everything else is cbill accessible or fluff you can live without. Sure thete are convenience items like premium time, but there are smart, patient players that do very well in all phases of the game without spending a dime. True that means PGI makes very little off those players, but it is feasible.

Now if we followed you suggestion about making some mechs cash only... assuming you mean non-heroes, i.e. those variants inaccessible via cbills in any way (so not champions)... then we'd have a paywall b/c if they locked the complete crap mechs behind the wall, only collectors would buy them, if the put the *good* mechs there, then its p2w.

So sorry, can't agree.

[NocturnalBeast]

MovinTarget, on 02 May 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

But none of the stuff you listed is really needed to play the game. Supply caches can be sold. You can get colors from events sometimes, but they and decals are fluff tbh.

Seriously, think about it... the only thing necessary to play this game that requires cash are mechbays. Everything else is cbill accessible or fluff you can live without. Sure thete are convenience items like premium time, but there are smart, patient players that do very well in all phases of the game without spending a dime. True that means PGI makes very little off those players, but it is feasible.

No cash at all is needed to play this game, check out the What Mech Challenge (if you haven't yet):

https://mwomercs.com...mech-challenge/

See what the crazy challengers have accomplished and earned from playing without spending any real money for over a year.

Edited by Ed Steele, 02 May 2017 - 05:50 PM.

[Aramuside]

MovinTarget, on 02 May 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

The salt was was real back when oxide and huggin were small and overquirked.

I petsonally loved the gridiron back when it fired gauss like ac5 rounds (yes it was that fast).

Yeah there were not many op heroes, but thats the point, they were supposed to be cool looking and some would atgue the 30% bonus on cbills offset their (genetally) subpar performance...

With the clan heroes you get the ability, if pgi is not careful to add pods to the mix in exceptionally lethal combinations due to the mix-n-match nature of omnipods so unlike IS heroes where once you know the loadout you had a pretty good idea how effective it would be, here you have to account for all the pod combinations.

That left them with a couple of options:
Fix the hardware on the heroes so they are not (fully) omnimechs
Walk back the designs and offer refunds
Let it ride and find out after the fact whether the original designs were struly op/p2w


Frankly, i think they chose the least evil of the three.

I understand where you're coming from. I've always believed the heroes should be equal to the best of the c-bill chassis but that's a very hard balancing act. I usually feel like I'm gimping my team taking most of them so sadly they generally just get relegated to leveling which is an utter waste. Too many older heroes like the Pretty Baby and St Ives. At least the more modern ones feel more competitive with their c-bill compatriots.