122 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mystere, on 13 April 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

You entirely missed the point.

No, I didn't just because we don't think we should have to pay for hero mechs to remain competitive doesn't mean we don't spend money nor should it be considered some sort of fee as part of the competition. This is more of a matter of principle within eSports itself in that money shouldn't HAVE to be spent in game to be competitive. The moment that happens is the moment you open the door for all sorts of stupid marketing tactics (you have to spend money each day/week/month/year just to remain competitive etc).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 April 2017 - 12:44 PM.

[Mole]

No matter how many times I look at this thread I still can't get over the amount of drama queening in the OP. One minute I want to laugh at how ridiculous it is and then the next I want to cry because I think he's actually serious about classifying people who campaigned against P2W as "terrorists" and it reminds me that people really can be that stupid.

Edited by Mole, 13 April 2017 - 12:48 PM.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

I am laughing, PGI should be anyways releasing more cbill variants of mechs when we hit 3067 anyways because there should be getting new variants anyways. I mean I get PGI doesn't want to do a new wave of variants every year for cbills only, but, they should for things that add unique things, more so for the IS than well Clans. Clans, well omnipods get swapped around, very powerful, already pretty strong, IS needs more help. Anyways, that is a side point.

Now for the Shadowcat Hero being nerfed? Not too much actually. Now with the cbill variant coming out you can, without the hero, run a Shadowcat with 2xATM3 2xATM6 (And these can lock or dumbfire) with 360 rounds which is 20 vollies if PGI keeps with TT ammo per ton. This also is without ECM so an actual trade off for the build that can now at under 270m should do 54 alpha strike with missiles while also having longer range capabilities due to ATM's can lock and act as mid to long range support as well so you aren't hampered by the traditional splat build limitations. Better yet with TT heat values you are at 18/20 heat which is over the 1.33 mark which is pretty cool, would eat 12 heat per volley out of the bog standard 50 capacity a stock shadow cat has. Slap the ATM6's in the ST's and the ATM3's in the arms to protect your bigger weapons from getting clipped off as easily and it is a solid build. So the shadowcat cbill pods are nice.

As for the Shadocat Hero? Eh, I might pick it up just so I can slap another laser onto my UAC10 + ERML build I have running on it currently, would let me easier shoot down UAV's with two arm ERML's that way.

[chucklesMuch]

SPencil, on 13 April 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

Speak of the devil, I had one of those alongside an Orion 100 to 0 my Timberwolf within one second of looking at me. What the hell are even in those things?

edit: I should then point out that they proceeded to nuke four other people.

I love cicada's... especially the 2b... I worry for how skill tree will effect them... perhaps I will start playing ice ferrets more...

[Valdarion Silarius]

INB4 this entire thread and the mwomercs site gets shut down and taken offline by the NSA.

[Rakshasa]

Clanner Scum, on 13 April 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

I'm just bummed about the shadowcat missile hard point change. I really wanted an effective splatcat. Everything else seems good. Overall I think this was a good decision from PGI. And it's especially important to note that PGI listens to the community and responds. No matter what they do they won't please everyone, so if you're displeased by this change then suck it up buttercup.

It was a good decision for people who want free stuff, not sure about it being good for PGI. If they receive less income from their work then it's won't have been a good decision from a business standpoint - and PGI is a business. Behind all the comp leagues, pro players and optimization is the need to keep the lights on. Heroes were one way to do that. Some of the new pods were quite good, but "pay-to-win"? I wouldn't have thought so. Optimize certainly, but not win. Once omnipods start awarding bonus tonnage, or huge bonuses to damage or resilience, then I'll call P2W.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 April 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

No, I didn't just because we don't think we should have to pay for hero mechs to remain competitive doesn't mean we don't spend money nor should it be considered some sort of fee as part of the competition. This is more of a matter of principle within eSports itself in that money shouldn't HAVE to be spent in game to be competitive. The moment that happens is the moment you open the door for all sorts of stupid marketing tactics (you have to spend money each day/week/month/year just to remain competitive etc).

I'm pretty sure that being competitive doesn't hinge on having only the best of the best of everything. It might give an advantage, sure, but if that was the only possible way to remain competitive then competitive matches would use one mech, with one build - both the most optimal choice. I know the MWO competitive scene has a narrower set of orthodox mech and weapon choices than puglandia, but I don't think it's that narrow.

Mole, on 13 April 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

No matter how many times I look at this thread I still can't get over the amount of drama queening in the OP. One minute I want to laugh at how ridiculous it is and then the next I want to cry because I think he's actually serious about classifying people who campaigned against P2W as "terrorists" and it reminds me that people really can be that stupid.

[cazidin]

Arnold The Governator, on 13 April 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

INB4 this entire thread and the mwomercs site gets shut down and taken offline by the NSA.

Honestly, this thread just needs a title change and some post cleanup. MODERATORS! SHUT DOWN THIS THREAD!

[SPencil]

Arnold The Governator, on 13 April 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

INB4 this entire thread and the mwomercs site gets shut down and taken offline by the NSA.

Too late, they're already here. Not their speed to shut things down when everyone is still freely talking...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Rakshasa, on 13 April 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure that being competitive doesn't hinge on having only the best of the best of everything.

It actually does.....the more money on the line (which with another MWOWC there will be) the more this is an issue.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 April 2017 - 01:47 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Threads like this crack me up.

OP is so entitled and self-absorbed that they use terms like 'terrorism' and a slew of misplaced and unrelated insults to try and denigrate the people who managed to get a bad game balance issue fixed.

The reality is that anyone with a bit of spine wants the game balanced because then good players win because they are good players, not because they spent more.

There's a funny irony to watching a bunch of people saying it's unfair and everyone else is just whiners because.... it ruined their hopes of getting to buy an advantage over everyone else. That they want the game unbalanced because they specifically would benefit from it at the expense of others.

Then, and I love this part, the attempt to equate wanting the game to be balanced with people being SJWs. So they post a whine thread about people getting bad game balance fixed, equate it with terrorism, say it's 'stifling creativity and mech science for everyone else' and wanting 'safe spaces'. All while arguing in favor of wanting to be able to buy a special advantage for themselves to help them win more often than their actual skill level would allow.

There is no snowflake as special as the 'my money makes me entitled' snowflake.

[Clownwarlord]

OK even I have to admit this has nothing to do with esports, nothing to do with comp play or players. Why?

Well in comp play like MRBC and even when PGI comes out with their competitive tab you are only allowed to use cbill variants or cbill omni pods. If you do not believe me look it up. Now why does that mean they have no culpability in this? Well if they are not allowed to use it period because it breaks the rules out right then it can not be used to win making it not pay to win because it would actually be pay to lose ... automatically just for using it in comp.

So for this argument that comp is to blame for the heros being pay to win and the reason for change well you are utterly wrong.

[Cybrid 0x0t2md2w]

man they nerfed an already sad shadowcat hero that gained nothing but another missile pod. most people wont even buy the poor thing for a lousy 1 e ballistic arm. just move 1 or 2 fixed structure form the right arm to the left arm if you want to make the chassis have options for that pitiful hero arm.

[Captain Polux]

MischiefSC, on 13 April 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

Threads like this crack me up.

Every other thread feels like this.

[draiocht]

[mod]Through numerous reports, this topic has been reviewed
to have been phrased in terms that are toxic, offensive, or unconstructive
and derailing of the thread's core topic.
For this reason, this thread has been moved to Kaetetôã.

Please move constructive discussion to more relevant threads.[/mod]

Edited by draiocht, 13 April 2017 - 02:56 PM.

[Ultimax]

Mystere, on 13 April 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

Why is it that in almost every game and sport, serious competitors open their (or their sponsor's) wallets to get serious gear and training. What makes MWO comp players so extremely "special"?

1) As you said many pros have sponsors. This player base is normal people using their own wallets. No one was opposed to using hero mechs on the tournament server because everyone had access (i.e. was effectively sponsored by PGI for the equipment)

2) In typical games/sports you are making an investment into basic/standard gear that everyone needs to have and fundamentally doesn't change - unlike a game like this one where the devs have total control to abuse the "equipment" with cycles of nerfs & buffs to constantly force you to buy things (this is the consummate example of pay to win).

3) Most comp players probably own or buy nearly all of that stuff anyway, we usually argue against powerful stuff being paywalled because it creates a toxic spiral as per example 2 or because it creates a daunting entry barrier for NEW players not ready to commit - it's hard enough to get new players into comp as it is.

[DaFrog]

That's funny, I don't remember saying a damn word about this...

[Revis Volek]

N0ni, on 13 April 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

The "unique" pod that it still has, does not change build diversity. There is no point in buying the hero just for the camo when i have the Invasion variant.

Also, there is a difference between buying it for an advantage and buying for science. Don't just assume "oh you just wanted an advantage and you're just salty now" because i was legitimately curious to see if you could fit 4 ATMs and still retain the ECM without too much sacrifice.

With this change it just narrows the list down of what i might pick up, probably just the Mad Dog, Ebon, and HBR. Unless enough people cry about those to get changed as well.

So you are still going to buy hero mechs?

[N0ni]

Revis Volek, on 13 April 2017 - 05:11 PM, said:

So you are still going to buy hero mechs?

N0ni, on 13 April 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

what i might pick up

N0ni, on 13 April 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

might pick up

N0ni, on 13 April 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

might

I don't believe i said i'm for sure guaranteed buying them. 4 months out and no incentive to get one now, lets see how bad PGI screws up during that time before i pull out the credit card.

[Alex Morgaine]

Thought there was going to be counter strike phrases and/or memes relating...
Le sad.

[Revis Volek]

Mystere, on 13 April 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

Why is it that in almost every game and sport, serious competitors open their (or their sponsor's) wallets to get serious gear and training. What makes MWO comp players so extremely "special"?

lol, dude.

I know you arent this dumb, Whats wrong with competition? You know that this is a competitive game right? I know thats bad and if we say that word it means we are try hards looking to get Walmart plastered on our hoods? The dreaded competitive nature of humans, how dare we try to see who is better during our free time while not bothering anyone else at all.


How dare we buy expensive computers with our own money, buy numerous mech pack over years and years, be whales as well as competitive

How dare we be anything but casual pleabs such as yourself.

Edited by Revis Volek, 13 April 2017 - 05:23 PM.