22 replies to this topic

[Ruar]

Why is it so difficult for people to understand where the center and flanks of the friendly team are located? Just got done with a series of matches where most of the losses occurred because our team seemed unable to grasp the concept of center and flanks. They just ran all over the place instead of focusing on a key area to blunt the enemy with superior numbers. One match I watched the assaults run in a complete circle around a terrain feature when they could have formed a firing line and blocked the enemy advance while they were coming out of a bottleneck.

Seriously... how is this a difficult concept to grasp?

[Maugged]

There's not enough players lately so PGI is filling the gaps with bots. For now they are just very basic, they just follow players then wait for the enemy to show up to shoot them. But in the next patch they should also know how to run away when overwhelmed.

[Khobai]

potatos do what they want

theres no point in trying to reason with them

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

Center? Flanks?

Are you nuts?

You only need to know the location of the enemy flank.
3 mechs distract the enemy and your main body crushes them from one of the sides.

Done.

Rinse and reapeat until you have all pokemechs.

[visionGT4]

When the game has devolved into who can lay their 12 ton geese and/or 6 ton peeps on target first, any 'tactics' beyond selecting easy mode in the hanger are completey irrelevant.

[Pr8Dator2]

This is why we need Solaris... not everyone's a team player...

[Paigan]

People also don't know what a choke point is and choke themselves in it with passionate stupidity.
Most also don't understand what exploiting range, suppressive fire and denying the enemy tactical paths is.
Most even consider such tactics to be "cowardice" .

90% of the MWO don't have the slightest idea about any tactical concept. They just suicide in to brawl the enemy and hope for the best. And if the others don't suicide with them, the complain like little children.

[PhoenixFire55]

LOL, you assume that PUGs are gonna hold the line with you? ... Dream on. People are saying that "nascar" is a way to flank the enemy ... it is not, it is simply the way to constantly run away from them.

[DeeHawk]

Seriously, could you be a little less condescending in your rant?

"People don't get X the way I do" easily gets confused with "Everybody must be ********"

To answer your question directly:

Where did you read/learn about 'Center & Flanks', and how ould this information get out to more players?

Also, bear in mind that PvP games can be very stressfull, which in turn leads to a bunch of suboptimal decision in the heat of battle. This does not make people mindless drones, but actually the exact opposite: It makes them people.

[El Bandito]

Considering the fact that I spent a year to dig out of my horrible WLR, and considering the low population MWO has, I understand if many players are acting sub-optimally.

[Ruar]

DeeHawk, on 18 April 2017 - 12:47 AM, said:

Seriously, could you be a little less condescending in your rant?

"People don't get X the way I do" easily gets confused with "Everybody must be ********"

To answer your question directly:

Where did you read/learn about 'Center & Flanks', and how ould this information get out to more players?

Also, bear in mind that PvP games can be very stressfull, which in turn leads to a bunch of suboptimal decision in the heat of battle. This does not make people mindless drones, but actually the exact opposite: It makes them people.

Not meant to be condescending, just very frustrated after a night of bad matches.

As for learning how... I watch the map. Sometimes I get a little lost, but as long as someone is talking on coms helping to direct it is much easier to stay focused. And I was on coms trying to provide some direction, but I'm not very good with orders as much as suggestions.

One example that stands out was a fight on forest colony. We dropped in on the west side of the map and move to H5/H6 area. I got lit and fired at from the gap in G8 and told the team. then I saw more movement so reported the enemy team was pushing up the gap in G8. The enemy team came out of the gap unopposed because when I reported initial contact our team moved to the waterline.

I thought that was odd but fine, we can fight in that area if we have to. I suggested forming up and being ready to engage as they came around G6. Nope.... our main force, including the assaults, continue to circle to H7/H8. Except they are spreading out in a line instead of moving as a group. We end up down three or four mechs and our main group still is not in position to engage the enemy.

Finally, our strung out line hits their much more compact force in G6.... an area we could have held from the beginning if people had just formed a skirmish line. Except our onesie and twosies are rolling into six of their mechs while the other six roll up from behind us. I died at that point because I was trying to engage the enemy flanking force and got separated because our central group never actually stopped circling.

Several times I tried to get our central group to stand and fight before I died, but I must be using the wrong words because they never quit spreading out and circling.


I get that pugging means there is a lack of coordination sometimes, but completely reversing positions to give up good ground in order to be spread out on bad ground just doesn't make sense. I guess I just don't understand when people play a competitive online game but don't actually invest effort into learning the game. I make a lot of mistakes when I play, but I'm trying to learn how to fight better and improve. It's just a little frustrating when 80% of the matches in the night are one sided losses and the 20% wins were ugly as well.

[Coolant]

one of the many reasons i prefer not playing conquest

Edited by Coolant, 18 April 2017 - 07:15 AM.

[Metus regem]

Pr8Dator2, on 17 April 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

This is why we need Solaris... not everyone's a team player...

....

FFA =/= Solaris


Solaris is what we have now, pointless battles with no actual purpose other than entertainment, with no consequences, other than your team's (warrior house's) rankings.

[Humpday]

Paigan, on 18 April 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

People also don't know what a choke point is and choke themselves in it with passionate stupidity.
Most also don't understand what exploiting range, suppressive fire and denying the enemy tactical paths is.
Most even consider such tactics to be "cowardice" .

90% of the MWO don't have the slightest idea about any tactical concept. They just suicide in to brawl the enemy and hope for the best. And if the others don't suicide with them, the complain like little children.

oh god f7 grid on tera therma(xp?) and g8 forest colony


For tera its a zig-zag choke point resulting in the team stacking up on one another only able to bring 3-4 mechs to the front line while everyone tried to poke, then gets stuck backing up bc everyone is behind them also trying to poke...

Yet every time I get on that map, people gravitate toward it! Its amazing, I have to get all over the mic and say NO! BAD! Dont' do it!

Similar issue with g8 in forest colony...its a funnel, the entire enamy team can stare down it and just blind fire and kill everyone it it. Same thing, there is no room/cover to maneuver and bring your arms to bear. Yet people still insist on going down there.

[Humpday]

Anyway for the topic.

Its a learned thing, and with the matchmaker mixing lower tier people with high, you're going to get that a lot.
Many people only play 1-2-3 hours a day 3 hours probably pushes it for most people. This means a new player will likely take a really long time to learn how to maneuver properly and constantly maintain battlefield awareness...

Most will get tunnel vision and chase after some non-sense and end up out of position. Only reason why I caught up quick is because I drilled in 2600 games in little over 2 months. This month will be my 3rd playing, each season besting the last.

Off topic but the new weapons are soo badly needed. My playtime has plummeted having realized that most every mech is cookie cutter. Get anything with mid/high mounts and LPL+mlas,PPS/Gauss, ac-20/srm6, ac10-srm4, boat autocannonts uac5/10, uac5/ac5, trip uac5, hex ac2, quad uac4...well boat anything.

Though I realize I probably over did it grinding out that many games in such a short time...but the game mis stupidly fun and addictive.

More weapons, skill tree needs to go ahead and drop already dammit, and maps, please add new maps.

[Roadbuster]

The lack of situational awareness sometimes amazes me. I mean, how can these people survive in everyday life without getting hit by a car or train.
I see people trying to hit an enemy with advanced zoom at 100m, people running under UAVs and wondering why they get hit by LRMs. Snipers who are unable to see UAVs, or flanking mechs, or mechs with ECM. Endless campers who keep hiding till the game is lost. Brawlers trying to play peek-a-boo with Gauss/PPC snipers.
I've had half the team behind me while tanking and pushing, and a single light mech without ECM was able to get behind me and take me out from behind without any of my teammates targeting or firing a single shot at it.

It's especially bad on Polar. I warn my team of flankers, but they ignore them (maybe because they can't see ECM mechs), just to wonder why the LRMs keep hitting them.
Same with UAVs. You can often tell how aware your team is, if you check how long enemy UAVs are allowed to live.


Many players just don't care.
They don't care about this stuff because they don't care about their teammates.
Most of them just want instant gratification.

[Soultraxx]

I think that 99% of MWO players understand the concept of flanking.

The issue is that everyone wants to flank at the same time, including the enemy ☺

Edited by Soultraxx, 19 April 2017 - 01:52 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Ruar, on 17 April 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

Why is it so difficult for people to understand where the center and flanks of the friendly team are located? Just got done with a series of matches where most of the losses occurred because our team seemed unable to grasp the concept of center and flanks. They just ran all over the place instead of focusing on a key area to blunt the enemy with superior numbers. One match I watched the assaults run in a complete circle around a terrain feature when they could have formed a firing line and blocked the enemy advance while they were coming out of a bottleneck.

Seriously... how is this a difficult concept to grasp?

Because folks like zuul keep teaching bad tactics to people in the QP queue to just ball up instead of flanking properly.

[Dee Eight]

El Bandito, on 18 April 2017 - 04:24 AM, said:

Considering the fact that I spent a year to dig out of my horrible WLR, and considering the low population MWO has, I understand if many players are acting sub-optimally.

How horrible ? I'm trying to dig out of a horrible KDR more than worry about the WLR which has less to do with my tactics and more to do with the other 23 players tactics. The best win streak I've managed in a month is six games consecutive, or 16 out of 20 games cumulative.

THIS was a match result yesterday afternoon local (4pm Eastern / 9pm UK).





Out of 12 of us... only myself and a RVN-2X pilot thought to flank... and all the raven guy did once he did flank was fire LRMs indirectly without his own LOS / locks from the enemy back field. Nobody on the team besides me were on voice comms, nobody at all bothered to use the chat dialogue during the match.

Edited by Dee Eight, 19 April 2017 - 07:14 AM.

[Jingseng]

because coward newbs do understand that you cannot charge or flank from the backline. And that is where they are anchored.