102 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

JigglyMoobs, on 18 April 2017 - 11:28 PM, said:

I have yet to make up my mind about this. The key to what they did here is that the base is so weak a lance of lights or mediums could very quickly take it out. This could change the way you have to play this map.

I've been on a winning match above and a losing match today where this happened. So, it seems guarding the base is actually more important in this mode then in assault.

My feelings at this point is give it a few weeks and see what people do with the mode once they are more familiar, then we can see where we are in terms of adjustments needed.

Agree, but winning the objective doesn't have to be an easy thing. At the very least winning or defending the objective should be more the point of the mode.

Yes the obvious trolls will complain if it cant be turned into a TDM. That is only because they are the competition and would rather see this game shut down due to lack of game play and should be completely ignored.

No offense to the quoted reply at all it is something that is pushed most matches by trolls, ignoring the objective and turn it into TDM.

The complaints that the invasion maps are not TDM are innumerable, that excuse is used to run hacks every match by some. Trying to bring the situation to light here. The effort to keep this game a simple TDM arena shooter only with no other game play of any sort is strong and there are no rules that mean anything to the ones trolling this.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 April 2017 - 11:41 PM.

[Pr8Dator2]

I just had a round which isn't Skirmish at last!!! It was "Assault" all over again! Fighting in the middle while a few mech nascars to the base and "caps" it... felt exactly that way too! LOL!

[Wingbreaker]

I too can draw meaningless blobs on a mapstrat.

[Johnny Z]

Pr8Dator2, on 18 April 2017 - 11:33 PM, said:

I just had a round which isn't Skirmish at last!!! It was "Assault" all over again! Fighting in the middle while a few mech nascars to the base and "caps" it... felt exactly that way too! LOL!

This sort of match sounds way better or at least different than both teams meeting in the middle which is all I have seen so far for this mode. Maybe this will be more common? I doubt it but that would be cool.

Going to play a couple matches right now and see for myself how well the turrets help. I have not given it a real chance yet.

Edited by Johnny Z, 19 April 2017 - 12:01 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Johnny Z, on 18 April 2017 - 11:38 PM, said:

This sort of match sounds way better or at least different than both teams meeting in the middle which is all I have seen so far for this mode. Maybe this will be more common? I doubt it but that would be cool.

I think on the larger maps you might have to guard the base because it can be taken down so quickly by a competent lance.

[Johnny Z]

Just played a match, easy win because other team didn't defend.

A 100k pay out so not bad considering.

Edited by Johnny Z, 19 April 2017 - 12:18 AM.

[Vellron2005]

So, here's my experience with incursion so far..

If you want to play the battery game, you completely miss out on everything else, and can even get killed in the process.. you get very little "glory", and "rewards".. might as well be AFK the whole match..

If you play the game to kill, you play a standard skirmish in the middle of the map..

The bases are largely ignored, and the Air control tower summons a dropship that does exactly nothing.. it would perhaps shoot at any mechs in the enemy base, but by the time you power it up, the base is empty - so no effect.

This mode might be more interesting in FW, but in QP it is going the way of Assault (which it was supposed to replace by the way, but, PGI wanted to introduce more "content"), so it's basically another skirmish with "random stuff"..

A shame really..

What to do to improve?

1) If not already, make it a FW mode.

2) Remove needless batteries and tower functionalities. Make the towers destructible. Let the bases be covered in ECM until jammer tower destroyed. Let the Bases counter ECM until radar tower destroyed. Let the air control tower drop random Air strikes every 2 minutes on the enemy until air tower destroyed.

3) Make winning by destroying the towers (and base) hand out a MASSIVE payout. Make it profitable for us to destroy the bases.

4) Make an MFB structure inside the bases that repair and rearm friendly mechs. (does not restore arms, but fixes legs)

This would make the mode MUCH more interesting and would encourage non-skirmishing.

[Johnny Z]

Next match and the other team wasn't taking damage, nothing to do with the mode though. Hard mode, fighting invulnerable mechs.

Edited by Johnny Z, 19 April 2017 - 12:25 AM.

[Vyx]

The game mode is truly stupid. It makes zero sense. Why would anyone set up a base with no power for their defensive systems?

This once again exemplifies the lack of game design experience of team PGI. The first example was Escort mode. Follow and protect a moron with no weapons in the slowest mech available as he strolls through enemy territory with no plan other than to drop, walk 2km, and get picked back up. Oh, and those assigned to defend him should have absolutely no idea where he's headed. Genius.

Now we have "bases" with "weapons" that cannot even target 1 ECM light and have no power for their systems (everything runs on batteries we conveniently left out in the field). Great idea.

A base should be able to defend itself. That is why time was spent building it. Its defense should not be laughable.

Suggestions:
While within the confines of a base, defenders (including turrets) should enjoy the benefits of Radar, ECM, and counter-ECM -- so long as the generator for that effect remains functional. Additionally, every turret should have 1 med laser and 1 lrm5 (firing one or the other each cycle). Each turret should fire at the closest available target within range at all times. There should be a reason, however, to leave the base (other than to simply avoid game stagnation). There should be tremendous reward for successfully taking the enemy base. Perhaps each player should forfeit (risk) 150k C-Bills to participate in the match. To the victorious survivors, each gets 10 shares of that pool (3.6M). To the victorious dead, perhaps 5 shares each. To the losers, 1 share each, living or dead. This reward would be on top of the normal monetary rewards earned during game play. The "fuel cells" out in the field should be offensive, not defensive. Upon obtaining one, it should be brought to the enemy base to briefly disable one of their defenses, thus facilitating the taking of their base. "Radar Jamming" (if brought to the enemy base) should turn off the radar effect of the base for the enemy (2min). "EMP Field" (if brought to the enemy base) turns off the ECM effect of the base for the enemy (2min). "Summon Dropship" could be used either offensively or defensively. If brought to the enemy base, it summons an allied dropship to hover over the enemy base and attack from above. It would leave after 1min, or after it takes 2500 damage or so. If brought to an allied base, it would so the same, but shoot the attackers. It would be drawn, in either case, to the heaviest enemy weight concentration, and it's presence would counter all enemy ECM (within 500m).

Anyway, I feel this might make the game mode a little more than "skirmish, then shoot the base". Might be more fun, too.

[NextGame]

I'd settle for a ready button that works.

[Marius Evander]

If you increase the Turret health and base health you are just futher encouraging campersnipe skirmish, as it is now you need some people to play defensive and some to flank its good when people understand it (which is 20% of the time unless I bother to plug in my headset)

[Savage Wolf]

Problem with most solutions is that they still take more time to carry out than simple skirmish and that's where most of the objective focused gamemodes fall flat in quickplay, there isn't time to do them. So only way to save them is repawns. The only objective gamemode that works outside of faction play is conquest and only slightly works.

Quickplay is just too quick for anything but skirmish.

[JigglyMoobs]

Cadoazreal, on 19 April 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

If you increase the Turret health and base health you are just futher encouraging campersnipe skirmish, as it is now you need some people to play defensive and some to flank its good when people understand it (which is 20% of the time unless I bother to plug in my headset)

Right. I think the weak base health right now is actually a feature that is going to encourage people to defend the base. How well that actually works out in terms of game play and fun factor is something that we'll have to see after people get a little more used to the mode. So, that's why I'm currently taking a "let's see" approach.

[Widowmaker1981]

Cato Zilks, on 18 April 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

If you want respawns, play FP. Respawns are not the solution for QP incursion.

With all due respect, ANY gamemode without respawns of any kind IS ALWAYS going to be played as skirmish 90% of the time, for the simple and unavoidable fact that there is more fun to be had from shooting things that dont want to be shot (people) than there is from shooting things that dont care (AI / Walls). If it is possible to win by killing the enemies first then doing the objective after, people will do that most of the time.

Im not saying we should have respawn in QP, as you say we have FP for that.. but im also fine with all game modes in QP basically being skirmish, because im here to shoot robots with lasers.

[Savage Wolf]

Widowmaker1981, on 19 April 2017 - 03:15 AM, said:

...for the simple and unavoidable fact that there is more fun to be had from shooting things that dont want to be shot (people) than there is from shooting things that dont care (AI / Walls).

Not really a fact. Probably true for you, but that makes it subjective, not fact. I ******* love objectives and I too play most quickplay modes as skirmish, so it's not the fun that is the cause. Not alone.

As I mentioned before, it's the length of matches. Shooting 12 mechs doesn't take that long. Doing the objective does. Shooting 12 mechs require less coordination. And gives more rewards.

I have really enjoyed playing FP, especially conquest where the objective really becomes the focus. Best experience I've had in MWO. But FP is also the land of the tryhards and competetive units stomping casuals like me. So in FP I miss the matchmaker giving me better fights, so I return to QP despite FP having the potentially better gameplay for me.

So yeah, PGI has really put way too many hindrances for objective play in quickplay that anything but skirmish really making sense. If they really want to provide more varied experiences they need to make objectives worth going for. Otherwise, why might as well only have skirmish in QP.

[Jubblator]

They could also beef up the base defenses so that they are able to kill off solo lights or damaged mechs (give the turrets lrms, so you can skillfully dodge) and require you to kill off main base not just tickle one of the outposts, if yours is intact, to win.
This would push for base assaults since you may not make it if you kill off everyone and are damaged and few in numbers.

Right now the base is WAY squishy (buildings have about 100hp, turrets are same as from escort = no threat if focused).

The fuel cells could instead of that dropship crappy bombing thing, instead buff base defenses.

Edited by Jubblator, 19 April 2017 - 04:47 AM.

[Valhallan]

Heh this actually is easy, make a new building, for 2 power cells it will fire 1 long tom shot , boom bang objective is worth a damn

[qS Sachiel]

Arguably, respawns are the solution to QP incursion. This, despite the now meme-level statement, is just skirmish by another name. The generators really don't need to be there, and at most an effective (offensive) team may benefit from only 1 generator buff if safe, or 2 if risky / lucky. They run out before the match ends so they're pretty redundant.

The only way i see this being a viable notaskirmish mode is if PGI actually tailors (ie: creates anew) maps for the mode. Fitting them into the previous maps is just lazy and results in too quick a game for the purpose of the mechanics.

Also: clever update PGI:

streaks will not lock to objectives (won't fire).

thanks QA!

Edited by qS Sachiel, 19 April 2017 - 05:39 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

With all due respect, ANY gamemode without respawns of any kind IS ALWAYS going to be played as skirmish 90% of the time

this. respawns are the only solution if you want something to not be skirmish.

[SQW]

Khobai, on 19 April 2017 - 05:58 AM, said:

this. respawns are the only solution if you want something to not be skirmish.

No, it'll just turn into a longer skirmish. If you want to play objectives, you don't magically start to do so with two lives instead of one. Incursion actually allows Lights to contribute to the win without having to go pew pew.

Assaults and Heavies were never suppose to do anything other than kill so no amount of mode tweaking will get people who pick KDK-3s, DWFs and MADIICs to do anything other than skirmish.