150 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Right so, i was in a losing battle in a Domination in Polar Highlands. Admittedly, i wasn't brought down by lurms, rather i cannot participate well because my brother's eating up the damn bandwidth in the middle of the fight. As with many of you know, unbeknownst to parents (maybe they do, but just don't care), you can't ******* pause online games. (On some games you can, like DotA 2, but not like the other players would wait for you.)

Okay, so i was in my Dakka Brawler Ebon Jaguar, i was having a blast in my other games. Sometimes literally, though i do well before i go down. But, not this time though, i did 283 dmg on said Polar Highlands Domination match. Which is pretty ******* bad considering my standing and my mech build which i could pull out 672 dmg out of it (with 7 team damage), but i downed 141 missiles with my AMS, so i got 270 match score, therefore my tier-gauge didn't go down.

I get that AMS should give score for protecting your teammates, and i am grateful for the change. But, this is just bad, at least i think it's bad. Sure AMS protection should pad your score, but not so much so that it will reward even bad play, cause i did badly in that match.

Yes it should be scored, so that at least people are attracted in putting AMS in their AMS-able mechs like responsible pilots (well, i wouldn't say im that responsible, cause sometimes i don't put AMS in my AMS-able mechs. And i admit, i deserve death by lurms because of that). But it shouldn't give so much score, that it's easily abuseable like that.

Sure-wish I saved a screenshot. Here's a meme though.



EDIT:

I just noticed, we're still on season 10, yet PGI changed the scoring system in the middle. That's not really good, cause suddenly we're going to see the average match score shooting up because of this.

With the new scoring system, PGI should have made a new season for us to start with, else the old stats would be whacked.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 April 2017 - 12:10 AM.

[Paigan]

I agree 100%.

The sad thing is: it fits perfectly in PGI's un-sane scoring system.
Uselessly spraying 1000 damage over all components of all enemies (Lurms, anyone?) gives awesome score, while (theoretically) godlike-ly headshotting 12 Mechs alone would give only mediocre score.

Team kills (accidentally, I mean) gives the awesome penalty of minus ONE (oh noes!).

Killing UAVs gives less score than the raw damage it takes to bring them down (meaning by helping the team, you hurt your score).



The whole score calculation system is not totally bad, but it's not much better than that, either.
Only signifcant damage (damage that leads to a descruction of something) should give score, not raw damage value.
Things like flanking, hit and run, lance in formation, etc. should give considerably more score.

Now that AMS thing makes me wonder again: why are game developers overreacting so much so often? Either they double- or triple-fix a balancing problem, meaning they bomb a previously slightly OP detail into oblivion, or they simply panicingly overdo value adjustments.

Why can't whoever gets payed to adjust the numbers do some reasonable thinking and testing before the change goes live?

Edited by Paigan, 19 April 2017 - 04:14 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Paigan, on 18 April 2017 - 11:53 PM, said:

I agree 100%.

The sad thing is: it fits perfectly in PGI's un-sane scoring system.
Uselessly spraying 1000 damage over all components of all enemies (Lurms, anyone?) gives awesome score, while (theoretically) headshotting 12 Mechs alone gives only mediocre score.

Team kills (accidentally, I mean) gives the awesome penalty of minus ONE (oh noes!).

Killing UAVs gives less score than the raw damage it takes to bring them down (meaning by helping the team, you hurt your score).

At least landing an un-artemised LRM on a pug-tato in bad positioning took actual work from another potato lurm-boat, and/or a generous spotter. Now i just need to stand with the team, camping to death, and my PSR won't go down even if we lost, at least if i defended them from enough Lurms.

Right now, just pick the Trial Nova, and watch yourself get jettisoned out of the god damn lurmpocalypse of a tier without actual lessons learned.

Not to mention that they forgot to up the season to 11, literally, we're still at season 10, and they changed the scoring. Now our stats are out of whack.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 April 2017 - 12:04 AM.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Score and stats are more important than fun ?

Who knew ...

[The6thMessenger]

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 12:13 AM, said:

Score and stats are more important than fun ?

Who knew ...

Says the one hailing from tier-5.

Anyways, i get that fun is important. But seeing that scores' is also part of the game, it should be fixed. I know that not everyone in Tier 1 is a good pilot, i wouldn't say that i'm a good pilot, but honestly people can't get out of the damn tier, despite the upwards tier bias, for a reason.

Also, the scores calculate the C-Bill payout, so it has also something to do with the economy.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 April 2017 - 12:20 AM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

The6thMessenger, on 19 April 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

Says the one hailing from tier-5.

Anyways, i get that fun is important. But seeing that scores' is also part of the game, it should be fixed. I know that not everyone in Tier 1 is a good pilot, i wouldn't say that i'm a good pilot, but honestly people can't get out of the damn tier, despite the upwards tier bias, for a reason.

Also, the scores calculate the C-Bill payout, so it has also something to do with the economy.

Dude... the Experience Bar is already an Experience Bar, why does it matter???

[The6thMessenger]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 19 April 2017 - 12:31 AM, said:

Dude... the Experience Bar is already an Experience Bar, why does it matter???

[Lorcryst NySell]

The6thMessenger, on 19 April 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

Says the one hailing from tier-5.

Anyways, i get that fun is important. But seeing that scores' is also part of the game, it should be fixed. I know that not everyone in Tier 1 is a good pilot, i wouldn't say that i'm a good pilot, but honestly people can't get out of the damn tier, despite the upwards tier bias, for a reason.

Also, the scores calculate the C-Bill payout, so it has also something to do with the economy.

My XP Bar has no impact on my enjoyment of the game.

Yes, I'm bad.

Yes, I'm still learning.

Contrary to the salt miners, I'm not bitter.

I know I get better the more I play, I know I can learn from my betters ... if they deign to get off their high horses and teach me, of course.

[The6thMessenger]

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

My XP Bar has no impact on my enjoyment of the game.

Sure. Then again, irrelevant.

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

Yes, I'm bad.

Yes, I'm still learning.

I know I get better the more I play, I know I can learn from my betters ... if they deign to get off their high horses and teach me, of course.

Yes. But sometimes, people just don't learn. Nor they won't ever learn, if they aren't presented with hardships. My concern is they would just escape the Lurmpocalypse that is the Tier 5 without improving their positioning skills, due to over reliance to AMS just being a score-grab and cash-grab.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

The6thMessenger, on 19 April 2017 - 12:32 AM, said:

Again.... WHY DOES IT MATTER????? the Experience Bar was already an Experience Bar, this change does not effect that.

[Marius Evander]

So I should pilot a kitfox and only vote for alpine and polar and ill go from t5 to t1 real quick, the wonder why i lose 95% of matches? AWESOME!

i thought they were actually giving cbills for active ams usage..... So our total cbill income has been nerfed again by P.i. with the damage cbills rewarded reduction ?

I_AM_ZUUL, on 19 April 2017 - 12:48 AM, said:

Again.... WHY DOES IT MATTER????? the Experience Bar was already an Experience Bar, this change does not effect that.

The experience bar does try to put the same number of t1 on each side doesnt it? I understand r3t4rds can get to t1 if they play long enough, I think he's arguing that this will make it even easier/faster for potaetoes to get to t1 making the experience bar a LOT MORE invalid than it already is.

Edited by Cadoazreal, 19 April 2017 - 01:00 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 19 April 2017 - 12:48 AM, said:

Again.... WHY DOES IT MATTER????? the Experience Bar was already an Experience Bar, this change does not effect that.

Cadoazreal, on 19 April 2017 - 12:59 AM, said:

The experience bar does try to put the same number of t1 on each side doesnt it? I understand r3t4rds can get to t1 if they play long enough, I think he's arguing that this will make it even easier/faster for potaetoes to get to t1 making the experience bar a LOT MORE invalid than it already is.

This, really this. I get that not everyone in T1 is good, but at least they know a thing or two about actually playing the game if they ever get there. Cause in my experience, i had to learn something "obscure" that is called "torso twisting", "arm shielding", "positioning", to boost my survivability that led me to winning more matches and/or better scores and getting to T1. And this is consistent, to those I met that are also T1s.

Now with the AMS being too generous, they can just farm on it, instead of actually learning basic piloting skills like positioning so you don't get lurmed -- or lurmed less, basically just not even shot while being able to shoot back.

Full interest of disclosure, i just don't like the part where i get to play with people with the metaphorically equal common sense as a baby eating boogers. They're easy pickings, that would generally jeopardize both the enemy team or my own team.

I'm tired of seeing LRM70 spirit-bears, with two tags.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 April 2017 - 01:34 AM.

[Lorcryst NySell]

The6thMessenger, on 19 April 2017 - 12:45 AM, said:

<snip>and cash-grab.<snap>

But you don't get CBills for the AMS part of the score ... and frankly, I've been really bad this morning, my best stat was my AMS score, and I still got reddownarrows ...

So unless boating 3+ AMS and doing nothing else is "the new meta", I don't see a problem here.

Potatoes (like me) will still potate and stay in Tier 5 ...

BTW, I did some grouping with Tier 2 friends, averaging our Tiers to 3, and taking a long time to find games (so I think the brackets were opened to include T1 to T5) and it was still LRMaggeddon everywhere.

[The6thMessenger]

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 01:14 AM, said:

So unless boating 3+ AMS and doing nothing else is "the new meta", I don't see a problem here.

You wouldn't.

For example, If everybody brought 3x AMS, like a 12 man nova, or 36 AMS in total, and that's the norm, then LRM is now pretty damn useless weapon, and just that metaphorical several-tons of paperweight.

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 01:14 AM, said:

But you don't get CBills for the AMS part of the score ... and frankly, I've been really bad this morning, my best stat was my AMS score, and I still got reddownarrows ...

I did 283 dmg, with 141 missiles downed, and i got that yellow = sign. I seemed to remember that C-Bills part on the score, then again i'll look if it's really there or not.

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 01:14 AM, said:

BTW, I did some grouping with Tier 2 friends, averaging our Tiers to 3, and taking a long time to find games (so I think the brackets were opened to include T1 to T5) and it was still LRMaggeddon everywhere.

I honestly can't fathom how you think the matchmaker works like that. Of course I don't know about it either, so I can't really say if you're wrong or right about that. But if you think T1 has been matched with T5s, don't you think you could have been matched with people that would have been lower tiers too that would have brought lurmageddon with them?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 April 2017 - 01:25 AM.

[Tibbnak]

Current implementation of AMS score is fine.

It's very clear that those who focus on being the solo warrior have difficulty comprehending why it's a good idea that their epeen is encroached upon by support players.

If you have difficulty understanding that another player can fundamentally enhance your ability to function in MWo without firing a single shot then maybe you should go back to CoD or Battlefield.

[The6thMessenger]

Tibbnak, on 19 April 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

Current implementation of AMS score is fine.

It's very clear that those who focus on being the solo warrior have difficulty comprehending why it's a good idea that their epeen is encroached upon by support players.

If you have difficulty understanding that another player can fundamentally enhance your ability to function in MWo without firing a single shot then maybe you should go back to CoD or Battlefield.

Are we really going to Ad Hominem?

I don't mind the AMS and the protection it gives, I mind how the scoring is done.

[Lorcryst NySell]

The6thMessenger, on 19 April 2017 - 01:22 AM, said:

I honestly can't fathom how you think the matchmaker works like that. Of course I don't know about it either, so I can't really say if you're wrong or right about that. But if you think T1 has been matched with T5s, don't you think you could have been matched with people that would have been lower tiers too that would have brought lurmageddon with them?

Well, I'm basing that on the rants and salty posts on this forum, but I don't have hard numbers and code to prove it.

And yes, it probably was with more lower-tiers than high-tiers, but that wasn't what I was trying to say ...

From the whines, rants and more on this board and in the New Player section, LRMing is a thing at all tiers of play, at least in Solo Queue PUGlanda. I don't have enough experience of Group Queue yet to form an opinion on that, though.

[The6thMessenger]

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 02:08 AM, said:

I don't have enough experience of Group Queue yet to form an opinion on that, though.

Exactly.

On another thing, you're right about the AMS not giving money. But lol, I got Almost as good score, as a carrying Nova without 3x AMS that did 962 damage, in my Kitfox with 3x AMS that did only 522 dmg. I wish I had a purifier, but this is what i got. KFX-S Support - ER-PPC + 3x AMS [4000] + 2x SRM4 [200] + ECM




Now, on a different perspective, while i didn't carried the team, neutralizing about 654 missiles that could have been 654 damage is not something to scoff at. But considering that i just stood there between the lurming idiot, and my teammate, I don't feel that it's a much more meaningful contribution against the one that did 962 or 806 or 784 damage that wiped out most of the enemy team that led us to victory, to have the same match score.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 April 2017 - 02:23 AM.

[L1f3H4ck]

The6thMessenger, on 19 April 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

Says the one hailing from tier-5.

Anyways, i get that fun is important. But seeing that scores' is also part of the game, it should be fixed. I know that not everyone in Tier 1 is a good pilot, i wouldn't say that i'm a good pilot, but honestly people can't get out of the damn tier, despite the upwards tier bias, for a reason.

Also, the scores calculate the C-Bill payout, so it has also something to do with the economy.

Tier 2 here, and I don't get it either. Score? Economy? You care about that stuff? Payouts for a loss in which you played so well that it borders on carrying are often lower than a mediocre performance on the winning team, that stuff has nothing to do with skill. And while it is a competitive game with an economy, it's not a competitive economy. This ain't Strarcraft.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Totally noobish point of view here ...

But, economy ?

Nope.

We cannot sell things to other players, we cannot get more than 50% on duplicate items that we sell to the game, etc.

CBills are just needed to upgrade 'Mechs, resplenish consumables (I get more Score points when I deploy an UAV than with AMS by the way), and sometimes buy new 'Mechs when/if they are available for CBills.

Compare that to others MMOs, like the only two that I know well :

Ultima Online : everything "good" is crafted by players, bought by players using the gold they get killing mobs.

EvE Online : you can get decent loot, but the basics like ammo, ships and more are built by players using ingame ressources.

We don't have that in MWO. No real economy here.

Just my 2 cents.