150 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

The6thMessenger, on 19 April 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

Says the one hailing from tier-5.

Tsk! Tst! <smh>

[Mystere]

Tibbnak, on 19 April 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

Current implementation of AMS score is fine.

It's very clear that those who focus on being the solo warrior have difficulty comprehending why it's a good idea that their epeen is encroached upon by support players.

If you have difficulty understanding that another player can fundamentally enhance your ability to function in MWo without firing a single shot then maybe you should go back to CoD or Battlefield.

I work in a huge organization in which a whole lot of so-called "project" staff look down upon "support" staff as less than their equal (and that's even though they are all on the same pay grades). Sometimes, I really wish the latter would all decide to not work for at least 48-hours just so the former realized how quickly the whole place would stop working. I'm sure they'd be all thrilled if such a walkout happened during payroll processing.

The6thMessenger, on 19 April 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

Are we really going to Ad Hominem?

You're the one who started with the T-5 jab, and now you're complaining? <smh>

The6thMessenger, on 19 April 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

I don't mind the AMS and the protection it gives, I mind how the scoring is done.

So you do not want people paid well for protecting -- i.e. supporting -- you?

Edited by Mystere, 19 April 2017 - 05:37 AM.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Flitzomat, on 19 April 2017 - 04:24 AM, said:

Looking at your stats you did not learn anything in the past 8 month. Sure you don´t want to do anything about that except bragging how you are the ultra-potato? (there is so much on the internet helping you to get a better player)

On the other hand I am glad that the Matchmaker worked in your case although you are the except for the rule that the T is just an experience bar. If you feel comfy in T5 all Messenger is trying to tell you is: Don´t equip AMS now or you will skyrocket into the realms of good gameplay (I mean at least sometimes good, rarely momentarily to be honest, maybe someday again)

A few words, if I may ...

My stats are abysmal because it took me 5 months to learn to aim, position myself and focus fire ... during those first months, I was even worse than now.

I'm not bragging about being a potato, I'm lamenting that fact.

Of course I want to get better, I always try to do my best in the matches I play ... I might be cursed though, when someone calls for a push on VOIP and I find myself pushing alone in a Medium, it's a very brief, very brutal end to my efforts.

Yes, I'm a slow learner. No need to point that out, I know.

My point is, I *DO* get better the more I play, albeit very slowly.

Ultimax, on 19 April 2017 - 04:54 AM, said:

Improving & caring about stats and scores is not mutually exclusive with "fun".

Just because some players can derive fun piloting with a steering wheel while they munch on crayons, doesn't mean players who work to win, score high and improve their stats/rank are not having fun.

That's is a false dichotomy.

There are LEGIONS of sportsfans listening to radio & watching TV programs dedicated to analyzing performance and discussing stats and scores for the pure enjoyment of it.

I never said that those were mutualy exclusive, I just said that for me, having fun is the first priority, getting better is the second, and scores and stats come dead last.

For me, again, score and stats are the result of having fun, not the objective of playing.

[Athom83]

Mystere, on 19 April 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

So you do not want people paid well for protecting -- i.e. supporting -- you?

"Yah, because I should always outscore the only thing keeping me alive from Lurmageddon that let me survive long enough to do that score."

[Xiphias]

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 03:48 AM, said:

OK, let's see if I got it right ...

Playing average is doing better than the terribad I'm being this morning (being sick doesn't help).

But I do score an average of 175 per match (even before AMS), but since I'm more often on the losing side of matches, my XP Bar goes down, lots of reddownarrows, simply because actually being on the winning team gives much more points toward the PSR.

8 months of play time (roughly) and I still see a downward bias rather than the other way ...

So, I'll come back here to learn more later, appointment with my doc now.

The system has an upward bias, that doesn't mean every player will move up. You will never go down on a win and you can stay constant or go up on a loss. Assuming an average player has a W/L ratio of ~1 and can average a match score of 150 they should at minimum stay constant. If they can pull off the occasional good game on a win/loss they will gradually move up in tier.

Your stats have a sub 1 W/L ratio. This indicates that your presence is actively contributing to your team's chances of losing (not trying to be insulting, that's just how it is). As a result of your contribution, the teams that you are on tend to have less chance of winning overall which is going to keep you in T5. This is good, because you really don't belong in T1 and I doubt you'd have that much fun being there. If you were a "true" T1 player you could score significantly higher and still move up despite having a sub 1 W/L ratio (though in scoring higher you would probably push that W/L ratio up above 1).

The problem is when the average player (W/L ratio of 1) gradually moves up to T1 instead of remaining in say T3 where it makes the most sense for them to be. Letting AMS contribute to match score is going to push more players up out of the tier that they really belong in, into the higher tiers. This dilutes the higher tiers and leads to more imbalanced matches.

It's a nice thought to try and give incentive for AMS, but when you can farm your match score by shooting missiles that are running into a building it's not really helping to measure your contribution to the team.

[Mystere]

Rampage, on 19 April 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

I do not have an opinion on how much AMS is paying because I have not experienced nor have I watched a stream with anyone who had AMS equipped. I just wonder, if you had equipped an extra laser or two instead of the AMS, as most people are apt to due, then would you havbe scored enough additional damage to equal what the AMS gave you?

As I understand it, you only get rewarded for destroying missiles that are targeting team members. You get nothing if they are targeting you. I am sure that your team mates appreciated the protection. I watch a lot of streams of the best players in the game. They scoff at LRM usage. None bring AMS. Yet, when they run into a team with one or two LRM users I see then get rekked, get salty and get mad blaming everything except themselves for dying to LRMs. This is not just on Polar either. Just last night, I watched one of the better players around get ripped apart by LRMs on Alpine, Canyon and Mining. Still did not give up a medium laser to bring AMS.

They can decrease the rewards. However, it should still be rewarding both financially and match score wise to sacrifice a bit of damage output to be a team player and bring something to help your team mates survive those "useless" LRMs.

Edit: Another point that I wonder about is, the last time I actually played on the LIVE server, which was admittedly over 3 months ago, I was in game after game with Tier 1s playing with Tier 4s and even the occasional Tier 5. If that is still the case then what does it matter if the PSR is moving everyone to Tier 1 too fast? Everyone is playing with everyone anyway.

What are you talking about? This is MWO! Support personnel are less then worthless. EPeen is king!

[Kroete]

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

For me, again, score and stats are the result of having fun, not the objective of playing.

This game would be a lot more fun with more people like you!

[Mystere]

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

Yes, I'm a slow learner. No need to point that out, I know.

There is nothing wrong with being a slow learner. It's the long-term results that ultimately matter.

Kroete, on 19 April 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

This game would be a lot more fun with more people like you!

Amen!

So who else here plays MWO using a josystick?

Edited by Mystere, 19 April 2017 - 05:56 AM.

[Xiphias]

Athom83, on 19 April 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

"Yah, because I should always outscore the only thing keeping me alive from Lurmageddon that let me survive long enough to do that score."

Yes, I think I should always outscore cover. Other than a few maps (Polar, Alpine) if you need AMS to keep you alive you probably aren't using cover correctly.

You can get more match score by sitting behind an LRM mech and shooting down ~20% of its missiles until it runs out of ammo than you would if you killed it straight up (destroying 100% of its missiles). Which is more valuable?

[Lorcryst NySell]

If some people really want to get down to the nitty-gritty of my stats, check my 'Mech stats please ...

I'm really awful with lots of chassis, and there are a few where I'm mostly good, like my Hunchback HBK-4SP.

But, and this is an important point, even in a 'Mech that I know, with weapons I'm mostly good with, on a map that I know well, and in a game mode that favours my style of play ... I'M NOT LOSING ALONE !

There are 11 other people on my team, and 12 other people in front of us ... I really doubt that me alone is always the deciding factor in a loss (or win for that matter).

[Khobai]

I love that AMS is finally rewarded but the rewards are definitely too high lol

[Athom83]

Xiphias, on 19 April 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

Yes, I think I should always outscore cover. Other than a few maps (Polar, Alpine) if you need AMS to keep you alive you probably aren't using cover correctly.

Not like there are any maps that require you to leave cover and cross open ground in order to close range or anything where you need that mobile cover to survive. *cough* *cough* Frozen city, Grim Plexus, River City, Terra Therma, Caustic Valley, Canyon Network, and several FW maps *cough*. Wow that was a bad cough.

Xiphias, on 19 April 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

You can get more match score by sitting behind an LRM mech and shooting down ~20% of its missiles until it runs out of ammo than you would if you killed it straight up (destroying 100% of its missiles). Which is more valuable?

And that guy is a D-bag. But while he enlargens his E-peen, his wallet suffers as you don't really make C-Bills off it.

[Mcgral18]

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 06:02 AM, said:

If some people really want to get down to the nitty-gritty of my stats, check my 'Mech stats please ...

I'm really awful with lots of chassis, and there are a few where I'm mostly good, like my Hunchback HBK-4SP.

But, and this is an important point, even in a 'Mech that I know, with weapons I'm mostly good with, on a map that I know well, and in a game mode that favours my style of play ... I'M NOT LOSING ALONE !

There are 11 other people on my team, and 12 other people in front of us ... I really doubt that me alone is always the deciding factor in a loss (or win for that matter).

4sp lacks guns
Not shooting robots loses matches, and tanking damage is worse than avoiding it entirely
You rob your team of a good mech (ie, H2CA, Nova), things which punch far above their weight.


This contributes to a loss, but you're still only part of the larger issue. The MM imbalance is real. I was levelling another account, Tier 4, and I was noticing a considerable number of Tier1 players, often imbalanced.
Those resulted in expected ROFLstomps

As long as you can consistently deal 200 damage, you did something towards helping a win
If you cannot deal 200 Avg Dam, you are part of the reason losses occur.

[El Bandito]

Rampage, on 19 April 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

I do not have an opinion on how much AMS is paying because I have not experienced nor have I watched a stream with anyone who had AMS equipped. I just wonder, if you had equipped an extra laser or two instead of the AMS, as most people are apt to due, then would you havbe scored enough additional damage to equal what the AMS gave you?

Not even remotely. See Messenger's screenshot for reference.

Rampage, on 19 April 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

Edit: Another point that I wonder about is, the last time I actually played on the LIVE server, which was admittedly over 3 months ago, I was in game after game with Tier 1s playing with Tier 4s and even the occasional Tier 5. If that is still the case then what does it matter if the PSR is moving everyone to Tier 1 too fast? Everyone is playing with everyone anyway.

PGI changed it so that T1s will not play with T4s, as long as MM valve is not loosened after many minutes of waiting. T5s will not queue with T1s, period.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Mcgral18, on 19 April 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

4sp lacks guns
Not shooting robots loses matches, and tanking damage is worse than avoiding it entirely
You rob your team of a good mech (ie, H2CA, Nova), things which punch far above their weight.


This contributes to a loss, but you're still only part of the larger issue. The MM imbalance is real. I was levelling another account, Tier 4, and I was noticing a considerable number of Tier1 players, often imbalanced.
Those resulted in expected ROFLstomps

As long as you can consistently deal 200 damage, you did something towards helping a win
If you cannot deal 200 Avg Dam, you are part of the reason losses occur.

I'll have to guess that 3MLas and 2 ASRM6s are not guns then ... also, in that 'Mech, my average damage (when I'm awake at the keyboard) is around 250-300 ...

'nuff from me, I prefer to learn things the hard way by playing the game.

[Ultimax]

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

I never said that those were mutualy exclusive, I just said that for me, having fun is the first priority, getting better is the second, and scores and stats come dead last.

Your messaging is awful then, or perhaps you don't actually understand what it is you wrote.

"Score and stats are more important than fun?"

Again you make the mistake of "fun first" - fun for some people is scores and stats which you continue to not comprehend.

[Athom83]

Lorcryst NySell, on 19 April 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

I'll have to guess that 3MLas and 2 ASRM6s are not guns then ... also, in that 'Mech, my average damage (when I'm awake at the keyboard) is around 250-300 ...

You'd probably want to upgrade that to 5 MLs, 3 is just barely not enough. Are you using a XL 250? If not, you should be.
Something like this; http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7a93fa148836d96
If you think that runs to hot for you, try this; http://mwo.smurfy-ne...de2f4912a2ea0a4

Edited by Athom83, 19 April 2017 - 06:39 AM.

[Xiphias]

Athom83, on 19 April 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

Not like there are any maps that require you to leave cover and cross open ground in order to close range or anything where you need that mobile cover to survive. *cough* *cough* Frozen city, Grim Plexus, River City, Terra Therma, Caustic Valley, Canyon Network, and several FW maps *cough*. Wow that was a bad cough.

If you have a ranged build crossing is unnecessary. If you are short range there are routes to avoid crossing open spaces or at least to keep exposure time to a minimal amount. Also, you put Canyon on that list? There are plenty of ways to line up approaches without having to expose yourself to missile fire on that map. If you're consistently finding yourself in a position where you're having to cross large amounts of open ground while under fire, you're doing something wrong.

You know what AMS doesn't protect you against? Gauss, PPC, dakka, and lasers. If you stand/cross in the open those are going to ruin your day. Cover stops all of these things. You're better off learning to use cover properly than taking AMS to shoot down LRMs. One teaches useful skills, the other mostly just makes it more forgiving when you are your teammates make mistakes.

[meteorol]

By inflating matchscores, it will simply lead to even more people in T1 who can't hit an atlas within 100m even when their life depends on it.

Make it pay cbills, but not influence matchscore and thereby PSR. We don't need even more people in T1 who simply can't hit a target.

Edited by meteorol, 19 April 2017 - 06:51 AM.

[Moomtazz]

El Bandito, on 19 April 2017 - 06:21 AM, said:

PGI changed it so that T1s will not play with T4s, as long as MM valve is not loosened after many minutes of waiting. T5s will not queue with T1s, period.

I rarely have to wait more than a minute to find a match, but it sure seems like player skill has gone way down in most of my matches. Maybe the XP bar is allowing worse players in T1-3. I assume there are T4 or 5 players in matches now, which shouldn't happen if I am T1.

Tell me again, why can't PGI just display tier level in the scoreboard? Someone's feelings may get hurt?