150 replies to this topic

[Xiphias]

illudium Q 36, on 19 April 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

You know, I've seen the "upward bias" story on the experience bar for a while. In order to progress, you used to have to either "WIN" or do at least 400 to 450 points of damage to get a 250 score to qualify for a "=". If you are not on the winning team, or if you are on the losing team and don't do at least 400-450 damage, then you stop advancing on the experience bar.

I breezed through Tier Five and Tier Four, but I've been stuck at the low end of Tier Three for months.

So I'm obviously a crappy player. I don't torso twist as much as should (in my case it throws off my aim more than I'd like in a brawl). I'll even do a "Leroy Jenkins" to break a corner stalemate.

But I've seen to many posts made by people who are "stuck" in a tier to think that it's just a few isolated players in this situation.
I've also seen the "Get Gud" replies to these players concerns.

Sadly, what ends up happening is many players finally decide to just turn off the experience bar. The good news is that the liberation this brings in just having fun again with the game is tremendous.

Have fun and stay thirsty my friends (Dos Equis).

The system does have an upward bias, that doesn't mean everyone will move up. With pretty average stats and a W/L ratio of ~1 most players will continue to slowly move up.

If someone is "stuck" in a tier they have no business being in a higher tier. The system is actually working in the way it should be. I don't understand why these players want so badly to move up when it just means that they are going to be even further outside of their depth.

If someone is "stuck" they either need to "get good" or accept where they are. There's nothing wrong with being a T5 player; however, being unable to move up is purely a personal problem and not a matchmaking problem. Not everyone can be T1 and it's still too easy to get there. The game needs a zero sum system to decide the tiers. For everyone who moves up to T1 someone from T1 would drop to T2. This might hurt some peoples feelings if they can't be in the tier they think they deserve to be, but it would make for fairer matchmaking.

[Magnus Santini]

In a few games running one AMS I got between 0-35 match score points for shooting enemy missiles. So it is not affecting PSR that much. Also, it is not seen as excessive to get 40 points for a 40-point alpha strike instead of one point for "damaged the enemy." Or zero points for damaging an enemy because he was after all targeting you. Remember that AMS teammates may run through enemy fire to their teammate who is being focused out, and try to stand where the AMS has best line-of-sight to the missiles.

[Clownwarlord]

Well first off, read all the changes to match score again please. If you do so you will note that what PGI did was take the priority off damage and placed it on other mechanics, not just ams.

So maybe you did get a bump from that 141 missiles you downed but what about spotting assist, component destroyed, scouting, and flanking. Which all now give a bigger count to your match score than before.

In other words if you are a light mech I find this helps you as well as a little bonus to those who bring ams. Outside of that, meh.

[DAYLEET]

Dakota1000, on 19 April 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

People ask to get money for bringing AMS, PGI gives them no money and boosts their match score so they get launched from T5 to T1 in a week of triple AMS Kit Foxing.

10/10

I just realise that pgi forgot to monetise gaining tier xp. As soon as they do, gaining ranks will be stupid slow.

[Jman5]

Ok this thread is getting me hot and bothered. Let me make my rant list

1. No one here seems to even know how many points AMS give you per missile, but most of you have decided it's too much? Wow.

2. Do you know how many points an assist gives you, do you know how many points proximity protect give you, do you know how many points ANYTHING GIVES YOU? But you know AMS is giving you too much?

3. PGI boosted the matchscore of several other things. How do you know it's just AMS and not

• Spotting Assist
  
• Loss reward
  
• Component destruction
  
• scouting
  
• Flanking
  
• Incursion Objective rewards

All these were either added this patch or increased. The one screenshot I saw the guy in the kitfox had 13 flanking bonus! That's a ton.

The point I'm trying to get at is that a lot changed and there are plenty of unknowns about matchscore. Immediately blaming the AMS as the one that's too high is premature.

PGI, THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD RELEASE THE DAMN NUMBERS. SO YOUR COMMUNITY ISN'T GETTING WRONG IDEAS IN THEIR HEAD.

Edited by Jman5, 19 April 2017 - 11:42 AM.

[Athom83]

Jman5, on 19 April 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

Ok this thread is getting me hot and bothered. Let me make my rant list
~snip~
PGI, THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD RELEASE THE DAMN NUMBERS. SO YOUR COMMUNITY ISN'T GETTING WRONG IDEAS IN THEIR HEAD.

I've been telling people these small changes have a butterfly effect in the larger picture, but they reinterpret it as "tiny change suddenly make bad mech OP ggClose".

[Alex Morgaine]

I think the important part is we can now see how much actually is blocked by ams. 654 damage even spread, couldn't that basically wreck any sub 90 ton mech and maybe even 100 ton units?

[Kroete]

Jman5, on 19 April 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

Ok this thread is getting me hot and bothered. Let me make my rant list

1. No one here seems to even know how many points AMS give you per missile, but most of you have decided it's too much? Wow.

Comparing my matchscore after around 6-700 missiles destroyed with others with nearly the same kill/assists/damage i would say its around 0.5 points each because of around 300 matchscore more then them.
But its only rough eastimating without knowing all parameters.

Edited by Kroete, 19 April 2017 - 01:43 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Jman5, on 19 April 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

Ok this thread is getting me hot and bothered. Let me make my rant list

1. No one here seems to even know how many points AMS give you per missile, but most of you have decided it's too much? Wow.

2. Do you know how many points an assist gives you, do you know how many points proximity protect give you, do you know how many points ANYTHING GIVES YOU? But you know AMS is giving you too much?

3. PGI boosted the matchscore of several other things. How do you know it's just AMS and not

• Spotting Assist
  
• Loss reward
  
• Component destruction
  
• scouting
  
• Flanking
  
• Incursion Objective rewards

All these were either added this patch or increased. The one screenshot I saw the guy in the kitfox had 13 flanking bonus! That's a ton.


The point I'm trying to get at is that a lot changed and there are plenty of unknowns about matchscore. Immediately blaming the AMS as the one that's too high is premature.

PGI, THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD RELEASE THE DAMN NUMBERS. SO YOUR COMMUNITY ISN'T GETTING WRONG IDEAS IN THEIR HEAD.

And guess what?
It doesn't appear in Private Matches

Seriously, a Loss now gives 11 score (VS old 0), but NOTHING AMS related came up on the death screen
So, can't test it there


I guess we can have a look at the other attributes, and derive it from a Live match (or just suicide rush after taking out some LRMs)
Heck, maybe a 12 VS 12 SYNC DROP!
How long has it been since those fun days? Ah, old MRBC
You bring back memories

[Felicitatem Parco]

The new meta... Using AMS to improve your PSR Tier. Meaningless.

Okay, time for something actually worth discussing:

Can I ask how many Cbills you got from your AMS usage, and why you think it is too high?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 19 April 2017 - 01:45 PM.

[Kroete]

Prosperity Park, on 19 April 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

The new meta... Using AMS to improve your PSR Tier. Meaningless.

Okay, time for something actually worth discussing:

Can I ask how many Cbills you got from your AMS usage, and why you think it is too high?

No, its not too high, its nothing you get.

Thats why i would say reduce matchscore for missile destroyed by 25% to 35% but give 2-3 cbills.

This would reduce the impact on psr but not making it meaningless and gives also some cbills
(killing 700 missiles is a lot, 2100 cbills as reward is not that much, but better then nothing.)

Edited by Kroete, 19 April 2017 - 01:49 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Kroete, on 19 April 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

No, its not too high, its nothing you get.

Thats why i would say reduce matchscore for missile destroyed by 25% to 35% but give 2-3 cbills.

This would reduce the impact on psr but not making it meaningless and gives also some cbills
(killing 700 missiles is a lot, 2100 cbills as reward is not that much, but better then nothing.)

Wait, this thread is based on the concept that AMS usage grants you too much, yet it grants you zero Cbills? Why was that not part of the discussion since post #1 ?

[Pixel Hunter]

you might as well get something for having to devote tons on your mech to avoid PUG missile rain

[Mcgral18]

OH, apparently there IS a requirement for the AMS reward

Quote

• Match Score (AMS): Using AMS to destroy Enemy Missile fire targeted at your teammates will now contribute slightly toward your Match Score. Destroying Enemy Missiles targeted at your own 'Mech do not contribute toward your Match Score.

I'll need to find a second Friend

[Jman5]

Mcgral18, on 19 April 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

OH, apparently there IS a requirement for the AMS reward



I'll need to find a second Friend

I'll help you. I tried to figure out the old matchscore breakdown on my own, but I never got it quite right. I would really like to know exactly what the formula is.

Edited by Jman5, 19 April 2017 - 02:33 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Jman5, on 19 April 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

I'll help you. I tried to figure out the old matchscore breakdown on my own, but I never got it quite right. I would really like to know exactly what the formula is.

Everything but Damage got increase (rather, damage was the only thing decreased)

None of the "Protected" items seems to have been touched, by the patch notes
If nothing unknown got touched, the rest are actually very easy to find out.

• AMS
  
• Loss (seems to be 11)
  
• Spotting Assist (indirect LRM friend, -spotting, -win bonus)
  
• Component destroyed (take an Arm, minus damage, minus loss)
  
• Scouting (minus loss)
  
• Flanking (minus damage, minus loss)
  
• Damage Done (minus loss, spotting. Something like 5 AC20 rounds for a nice even high number)

But, AMS alone should be an easy test too

[Jman5]

Mcgral18, on 19 April 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

Everything but Damage got increase (rather, damage was the only thing decreased)

None of the "Protected" items seems to have been touched, by the patch notes
If nothing unknown got touched, the rest are actually very easy to find out.

• AMS
  
• Loss (seems to be 11)
  
• Spotting Assist (indirect LRM friend, -spotting, -win bonus)
  
• Component destroyed (take an Arm, minus damage, minus loss)
  
• Scouting (minus loss)
  
• Flanking (minus damage, minus loss)
  
• Damage Done (minus loss, spotting. Something like 5 AC20 rounds for a nice even high number)

But, AMS alone should be an easy test too

Yeah, it's just a matter of systematically going through it.

[Baulven]

Kroete, on 19 April 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

No, its not too high, its nothing you get.

Thats why i would say reduce matchscore for missile destroyed by 25% to 35% but give 2-3 cbills.

This would reduce the impact on psr but not making it meaningless and gives also some cbills
(killing 700 missiles is a lot, 2100 cbills as reward is not that much, but better then nothing.)

Should be at least 10 or 20 per missile. Damage racks up a lot of money faster than that.

Or, crazy idea, tie rewards to your match score. Takes out the guess work, contribute and you get rewarded. Bonuses for good team play.

[Alex Morgaine]

10k per match score point?
350Matchscore = 350k? Not counting bonuses and premium time

[TJ Stitch]

I used to feel great taking my kit fox C out knowing I get a poor score but inside feel like a hero for saving my team from dastardly LRMs . Now I get a score for this o_O. So PGI how can you expect me to explain away my poor match scores now ������. Darn it.

Edited by TJ Stitch, 19 April 2017 - 03:31 PM.