365 replies to this topic

[denAirwalkerrr]

I'd rather say that for the most part in comp you want to have best trading mechs possible. Clan do it better alas mostly clan mechs there. FP is more of 12v12 face to face skirmishes guess who does it better with 25 more tons.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 27 December 2017 - 06:34 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Also unlike comp, you can't mix and match Clan 'Mechs with IS 'Mechs in FP. Where you would want a BLR-1G for trading in comp, you don't have that option as a Clanner. Where you would want a Summoner for poptarting in comp, you again don't have that option if you are IS. So you have to make due with what you have access to, which means playing around the deficiencies. There are no Clan Assaults with six high-mounted energy and there are no heavy IS jumpers that can cool like the Summoner.

[ROSS-128]

Isn't the fact that the tonnage gap still exists a strong indicator on its own? If IS mechs are so great why do they get a 25 ton handicap?

[MovinTarget]

denAirwalkerrr, on 27 December 2017 - 06:31 AM, said:

I'd rather say that for the most part in comp you want to have best trading mechs possible. Clan do it better alas mostly clan mechs there. FP is more of 12v12 face to face skirmishes guess who does it better with 25 more tons.

Not sure if you meant brawling as i feel like midrange trading could definitely be a form of skirmishing...

But still, there are lots of maps where brawling will have less efficacy than erll trading. Polar, Frozen, Boreal, Alpine, all come to mind... can you brawl? Sure, but it takes a team effort so that you don't get behind in kills.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Not always brawling but pace of these trades is more agressive and happens on way closer ranges than in comp. For extreme ranges as I said BLR is best mech.

[MovinTarget]

denAirwalkerrr, on 27 December 2017 - 07:37 AM, said:

Not always brawling but pace of these trades is more agressive and happens on way closer ranges than in comp. For extreme ranges as I said BLR is best mech.

Okay, that makes sense, this game typically rewards play, but when you are playing comp, everyone can be aggressive so you may not want to over extend if they are counting on you being aggressive...

[MischiefSC]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 December 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:

Also unlike comp, you can't mix and match Clan 'Mechs with IS 'Mechs in FP. Where you would want a BLR-1G for trading in comp, you don't have that option as a Clanner. Where you would want a Summoner for poptarting in comp, you again don't have that option if you are IS. So you have to make due with what you have access to, which means playing around the deficiencies. There are no Clan Assaults with six high-mounted energy and there are no heavy IS jumpers that can cool like the Summoner.

What kills the BLR in FW is that unlike the SNV it can't handle the push.

It's SOP to have an LBK in the deck on any map. Or three.

One thing that separates FW from all other modes is the ability to throw a mech or 2 away to close, letting you run 12 LBKs vs 12 erll BLRs on any map and end up trading 65 tonner for 85 tonners. Also almost every map I can get to 500m pretty safely in MAD IICs and due to the massive mid range firepower advantage make up any losses there easily.

The only time you'd have trouble with BLRs is if you're trying to play long range trade and staying at the BLRs optimal range. The only time I can imagine this is Skirmish or Domination on Polar and you bring MADs and you just push center and stop. That's more a matter of bad calls.

The erll BLR is pretty niche and while bery good at it's the the role is one that Clans have a number of counters for.

[McGoat]

MischiefSC, on 27 December 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

What kills the BLR in FW is that unlike the SNV it can't handle the push.

Stuff

The erll BLR is pretty niche and while bery good at it's the the role is one that Clans have a number of counters for.

Not entirely true, it certainly isn't the best mech in the game but I'm pretty sure we stuffed more than one linebacker rush in BLR boats.

The best thing anyone can do to improve their play in a BLR is to use the terrain. I took a BLR on almost every map, the only time I did not was when a slep was better suited for the task.

[MischiefSC]

McGoat, on 27 December 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

Not entirely true, it certainly isn't the best mech in the game but I'm pretty sure we stuffed more than one linebacker rush in BLR boats.

The best thing anyone can do to improve their play in a BLR is to use the terrain. I took a BLR on almost every map, the only time I did not was when a slep was better suited for the task.

Just a matter of sustainable DPS.

We won a match against a team on Frozen last week where they kept moving put into the frozen lake on the edge to maximize range and we still managed to claw them down (barely) with an LBK rush.

For long range laser trading at 800m+ the BLR is one of the best options. The problem is that the 800m+ laser trade role is one counter by speed and good burst damage, which the Clans do in spades. You can also counter it on, say, Boreal by taking mid range laservomit (MAD IICs, HBRs) and moving to 500m.

FW maps just don't allow for the BLR to force a match to stay in its optimal situation. Either objectives or terrain allow an aggressive team to counter it. IS has that one trick and the Assassin for an objective rush. Thats not balance.

[Y E O N N E]

MischiefSC, on 27 December 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

What kills the BLR in FW is that unlike the SNV it can't handle the push.

That's what kills it even in comp play. You can mitigate it by dropping to 5x ERLL and throwing on two more DHS, but then your firepower is kind of low for the class. It works in FP since you can have more than two, which again partially mitigates the alpha deficit if you are coordinating your fire, but not entirely. With only two, though, you should recognize that pushing/receiving means full-expose and, if you must have ERLL, it may be better to take a SNV for that. The SNV-C sort of hedges push against trade by having the four high torso mounts, but I would put my money on the BLR in a pure trading scenario.

Whether 5x or 6x ERLL, the output on the BLR is sketchy when it comes to bursting a push down. Better to hedge your bets by mixing some UAC boats in with your ERLL boats and have some solid mid-rangers waiting to receive. Or let your lighter 'Mechs handle the ERLL trading and roll out the big guns to receive. Before they nerfed it, I always led off with the DRG-1C and it was a monster. Probably still is a monster, just with a little less reach (I put a TC IV on it now to get most of what I had back).

[justcallme A S H]

MischiefSC, on 27 December 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

We won a match against a team on Frozen last week where they kept moving put into the frozen lake on the edge to maximize range and we still managed to claw them down (barely) with an LBK rush.

Last time a team tried that against a team I was in... We did just that. Moved into the lake E8 - Spread out 100m apart.

I think we lost one BLR outta 12 to 12 LBKs... Was a funny game.

[MischiefSC]

justcallme A S H, on 28 December 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

Last time a team tried that against a team I was in... We did just that. Moved into the lake E8 - Spread out 100m apart.

I think we lost one BLR outta 12 to 12 LBKs... Was a funny game.

Their LBK game was weak.

Edited by MischiefSC, 28 December 2017 - 06:03 PM.

[Direwoof]

justcallme A S H, on 26 December 2017 - 01:13 AM, said:

Not entirely true. Build you IS mechs properly you can have equal or better range.

IE - THIS

You are actually out ranging cERML, the staple of Clan Laser Vom. So you are always winning trades, if you know what you are doing.

If you couldn't tell my post was sarcastic...

[VeeOt Dragon]

though I haven't been playing for long I think the balance in machines isn't to bad. the only problem I have seen in FW is when you are in a random group (that's me because I just haven't bothered with trying to find a group that plays together often, that and my play times are a bit chaotic) and you play against a full well organized prefab team. you often get matches that are along the lines of 10-48 or so.

the only way I can see to fix this particular discrepancy is by making it so that if you have a team of a minimum of say 8 players they can only go up against prefabs of equal or greater strength. the problem here is that sadly the game does not seem to have the player base to support any further division in FW. already the wait times for FW match are rather large (that is for the normal matches not the scouting)

as for me I play IS for two reasons, one there are just more mechs that I like the look of, and two they are often cheaper to purchase so I was able to get enough mechs for two drop decks rather easily. (that way I can select a deck more suited to the match type or terrain quickly.)

the only Clan mech I have is an Eban Jag.

mind you I make no claims on being a very skilled player though I do try to use proper tactics and torso twist as best I can. still in T5 though.

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 21 January 2018 - 08:12 PM.

[Keladin]

I have been on both sides and even though I do not have a ton of experience I can say that Clan mech are easier to set up if not ready off the show room floor and they have advantages however Clan pilots seem to have a nasty habit of "soloing" even in a group. IS mechs take a bit of thought to get something that wont just explode with the first volley, but IS pilots almost naturally fight together (Maybe they realize they are not in a super badass wrecking machine and ego vanishes) and target together.
Of course when a Clan unit acts like an IS unit....Clan just steamrolls over IS.

I have had nights on both sides spent getting wrecked OR wrecking. Comes down to teamwork

[Q]

Have we ever had a "best 12" in IS vs "best 12" in Clan? Match of 5 then switch IS/Clan and have another match of 5. Would we learn anything?

Sounds kinda fun to watch.

[MovinTarget]

Q, on 07 March 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

Have we ever had a "best 12" in IS vs "best 12" in Clan? Match of 5 then switch IS/Clan and have another match of 5. Would we learn anything?

Sounds kinda fun to watch.

Hey Russ, Why not a MWO FP Worlds Championship???


I know I know, we are a small subset of players...

...but maybe... just maybe... If people watch streams of good players in FP, they'd learn how to open a friggin gate...

[Keladin]

Last few days have been rough in FP! If I am doing damage near the middle of the group then something is wrong because I am usually 5th from bottom at around 600 to 700 damage.

Where are all our good players?!?! Last night was a slaughter....and I mean not even fun type of slaughter. I would probably be banned from these boards if I tried to describe how actual UNfun it was....

At one point my team lined up and ran into their firing line like lemmings I was so shocked I stood and just watched.

Keladin, on 08 March 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

Last few days have been rough in FP! If I am doing damage near the middle of the group then something is wrong because I am usually 5th from bottom at around 600 to 700 damage.

Where are all our good players?!?! Last night was a slaughter....and I mean not even fun type of slaughter. I would probably be banned from these boards if I tried to describe how actual UNfun it was....

At one point my team lined up and ran into their firing line like lemmings I was so shocked I stood and just watched.

I can not imagine this even being fun for other team

[K O Z A K]

Keladin, on 08 March 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

Last few days have been rough in FP! If I am doing damage near the middle of the group then something is wrong because I am usually 5th from bottom at around 600 to 700 damage.

Where are all our good players?!?! Last night was a slaughter....and I mean not even fun type of slaughter. I would probably be banned from these boards if I tried to describe how actual UNfun it was....

At one point my team lined up and ran into their firing line like lemmings I was so shocked I stood and just watched.


I can not imagine this even being fun for other team

a lot of the good players are grouping up into 12 mans, so if you're solo dropping chances are you will only see them as enemies

some of the best FP merc units are IS right now

[NocturnalBeast]

Well, this is a shooter and latency matters no matter how much PGI tries to compensate for it. Players closer to the server will always have an advantage (if everything else is equal). Plus cable internet has higher latency than FIOS or DSL.

Edited by Ed Steele, 10 March 2018 - 06:55 PM.